Prisoner of Conscience or Conscious Prisoner?

Muflis se
ab chor ban raha hoon
Par
uss bhare bazaar se
churaoon kya
Yahan wohi cheezein sajee hain
jinhein lutaakar
main
muflis ho chuka hoon.
(V.P.Singh)

Bereft of everything, in the crowded marketplace of life he can find nothing to rob, for displayed there are the very things that denuded him. Some have deluded him.

And yet, he seems untouched. Some say he has only discarded one more mask, so no one can tell whether he is conniving or calm, an ascetic or an artful dodger. Epithets are flung at him, and he says it is part of the game.

He has been called the Machiavelli of Indian politics. That this comes from seasoned commentators and contemporaries is surprising. I have known former Prime Minister V.P.Singh for only about six years (although interacted on a fairly regular basis at different venues; I try and avoid the hospital where he has to go every alternate day for his dialysis).

What has struck me most is his naiveté. He is like someone in a coal mine who suddenly finds a diamond and starts exulting over it. He begins to seriously believe that it is possible to repeat the feat, so he will dig into the black soot again.

After 15 years when he was genuinely involved in farmers’ and slumdwellers’ issues, he is starting a political party again. Tomorrow, May 30, his ‘Mukti Sangram’ rally will herald him as one more mythological character. As Raj Babbar said, “He is my Krishna, I am his Arjun”. While this may appear to be a comedy of errors, obviously Uttar Pradesh chief minister Mulayam Singh Yadav is taking it seriously enough to rubbish VP as a “dhongi”. Not only is this VP’s worst career move, it will possibly wipe out a lot of the work he has done outside the political arena.

Look at the timing. There is unrest. ‘Mandal 2’ is staining the streets with blood again. Is he capitalising on this wave? He is partly ambitious, but mostly reckless. Mandal remains a benchmark by which he will be judged. It transformed the maverick into a modern-day Mogambo – the ultimate villain. He still stands by what will go down as one of the most profound revolutions in contemporary history, which is why no political party is ditching it.

Is there a feeling of déjà vu? When a similar agitation took place during your time, surely you could not think as just a politician?

A group of Dalit boys had come to see me during Mandal and they told me, “The abuses you are getting are for us and not for you. You are getting these abuses from that very section which has been abusing us for thousands of years, so if you stand by us you will also get your share.” If these are the feelings of 85 percent of the country, we are sitting on a volcano, though its summit may be ice-capped. However, hatred is not the answer for hatred. We have to carry everyone who is born in this land. So while past injustice has to be corrected, new injustice does not have to be imposed.

In the current crisis, the seats in educational institutions can be doubled so that the general category students do not feel any strain.

Why were there no problems during the BJP tenure -- even they were for reservations?

They never did anything sincerely. They got into power on the Mandir issue, everyone knows that. I started reservations, and then it was implemented by Narasimha Rao.

No one is denying that, but you had said once “Atalji is chanting my mantra”…

That is true, but what did they do? The BJP included the Jats, that is all. The Supreme Court order was already there.

With your new party, do you think you will be able to make amends?

I believe whoever is in power, people should fight the establishment over issues. This is the weakness of our democracy. We vote, then for five years we remain dormant.

There was this nice Kisan Manch you had and suddenly we find a political party.

Jan Morcha was formed as a branch of the Kisan Manch; it is still that, though formally it will have to become a political party if we are to fight an election.

And why do you need to do that when you have managed to bring about changes through your non-political movements?

We had a meeting of the Kisan Manch and most people said we should have a political outfit. I resisted that, I know that political people come and go. Except for me and one other person, the rest of them wanted to know how long the movement could go on. Their argument was that people maala tau japney nahin aatey hai (no one comes here to sit with prayer beads), they all have ambitions and if they are not fulfilled, they go away.

So you are trying to please this group?

No. In August we had our first public meeting. It was a huge success with a crowd of 35,000. It gave us an idea of people’s feelings and that the old attachment had not gone. Then we thought of having a movement, not a party. If there is constant pressure on whatever the government, then there can be change.

What change can you expect from your old so-called allies, old issues? You even went on a rath yatra starting from Allahabad and ending in Ayodhya. What was that for?

I wanted to test the scene and to see the development of the Babri Masjid issue and the Muslims. When we reached Ayodhya, I explained the whole position about the Supreme Court order. I told them that the Muslim leaders had agreed to give up the adjoining area and the temple could be built there.

It is not just old issues. We have also taken up the matter of land given to Reliance for a song by Mulayam. He has used money from the government treasury. The common land is given on a Re. 1 rent. Instead of the farmers, the government is helping capitalists.

Wasn’t there a clash when you had Ajit Singh of the Lok Dal, which is the ruling party’s ally, with you on that yatra?

Ajit Singh got in touch and said he wanted to participate in this movement. I said fine, but made it clear that on the electoral side we had nothing to do with his political party.

I had agreed to include him at one or two points in the yatra and not in the beginning because I wanted to establish my identity. But he stayed all through and then he was projecting his son. He got a platform and he would spend so much money. I do not have that kind of money. He put flags and posters everywhere of his political party…in some places they had their strength but most of the places it was ours.

It was then, after a couple of more meetings, we began to think of sending some of our MLAs and becoming a political outfit.

Raj Babbar was out of the Samajwadi Party. I appointed him president of Jan Morcha and myself as patron. This made Ajit Singh angry. He had been saying earlier that he could not share the dais with Babbar because he was still with Mulayam. He thought he would be the political party and give us a few seats and then become chief minister. So he was disappointed.

But why Raj Babbar?

He was there to support me when I first came to Bombay and campaigned vigorously and joined us in the Janata Dal. But when I lost interest in politics, he joined Mulayam and he came and told me about it. I could not stop him because I had nothing to offer. How could I bind him? He has a political background. He was with the Socialist Party’s youth wing and he is articulate and a known face; I don’t have to introduce him. He is also young, he can run about…

He was suspended from Mulayam’s party, so is this only a vote-breaking strategy?

The votes are already broken. I have always had my votes. The most backward people have come to me. Yadavs are coming, Rajputs are also coming.

We plan to put up 30-50 MLAS. We have a short time to prepare.

Mulayam and Mayawati are both backward leaders, so what is your USP?

They are backward born, I am a backward leader! All the very backward are looking up to me…These are the people who in 15 years of Mandal have not got their share. The Muslims are mentioned in Mandal, what have they got? There are issues of farmers’ suicides, weavers are totally ruined and nobody talks about them…a lot of minorities, slumdwellers…these issues…basically economic issues will be our emphasis. Paidaish ki rajneeti se zyaada peit ki rajneeti par dhyaan dena hai. (We have to concentrate on the politics of hunger rather than legacy.)

Talking of paidaish ki rajneeti, Arun Nehru has said that the Jan Morcha is only a front to help the Congress.

We want to secure our people. If there is any anti-focus, it is neither Mayawati nor Congress, but only Mulayam and the BJP. The workers who have joined from more than a dozen parties are all against Mulayam. It is de facto an anti-Mulayam outfit. It is not personal animosity, but this is what the people want. If you don’t see that, you cannot win. At the moment we are neutral to the Congress.

You were invited to this dinner by the UPA to celebrate its two years in power. You were seated at Manmohan Singh’s table.

Yes, I went. I did not know where Sonia Gandhi was sitting; I was directed to the prime minister’s table. But I met her before leaving.

Were there any other former PMs there?

I didn’t see any.

Why were you the only one invited?

How do I know? Maybe because Chandrasekhar is ill. Deve Gowda has gone with BJP, I don’t think Atal was invited, I don’t know about Gujral…he must have been out of the country. So I don’t know.

Were there any discussions about the Jan Morcha with the PM?

No, nothing.

You are lying low?

No, not at all, we are high profile in UP. We are having a big rally on the 30th, which will determine our fate. If that is successful, then nobody can stop us.

How different is this Jan Morcha from the previous one?

As far as leadership is concerned it is the same – I was leading that, I am leading this. At that time people across the social spectrum had come. This time things have changed and there is conscious organised support, mostly from the very backwards.

Udit Raj who has a Dalit outfit, Indian Justice Party (IJP), has joined us. Ram Vilas Paswan has extended support and he and Laloo Prasad are both coming for the rally on the same platform. Some Left party leaders will be there.

What will be your criteria for choosing potential MLAs?

Had it been a Jan Morcha thing alone, then I would have wanted people who have worked with the Kisan Manch and done some work with the farmers. But now because we are getting people from different organisations and parties, the choice will be mainly through negotiation. For Jan Morcha I can set rules, but not for the supporting parties. But you don’t know. After two months the picture could change.

Most are from other parties. What loyalty can you expect from defectors?

These are not defectors. The backward class people are not defectors; they are the people who we have been organising for some years now. They have not even entered the assembly. A couple of them have come from Mulayam’s party. As we become more visible, then perhaps we will accept some later. I have no illusions though that they will be here to negotiate.

You were happy as a poet, painter, activist. Why have you got back into the active political jungle – were you getting restless or missing power?

I still paint and we started as a movement, it won’t change. But there was no choice because the supporters wanted a party.

Is that all?

I will not be in any position of power. And why will I look for power now after being PM?

Regarding the Jan Morcha, there is cynicism that it will be just another protest group. Do you think it will be an effective opposition?

At least in UP it will be.

It is also adding to the cacophony of the crowd of parties.

If we do something, then the results will be there; if not, we will be finished.

You still think you can make a difference?

Yes. There will be those who will not agree. If you do something, people will always oppose you.

So if I tell you I am disappointed with the movement, it is okay…

Yes! I would say even if you are disappointed with it, you must join it. It should not stop you from becoming a part of it.

That means you are willing to accept people who don’t have any ideological affinity.

Koi naapta thodi hai. (This cannot be measured.) Many people are disappointed with Mayawati too, but they want Mulayam out, so she is accepting their support. It is not that they like her. One may be bad, but if others are worse then the bad is the best choice.

Between political expediency and historical relevance, what would you choose?

While politics is the art of the possible, history is the art of the impossible. I have never hesitated in attempting the impossible. What is historically relevant may not be politically prudent. One has to make one’s choices. I made mine. It is for you to judge.
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To quote the title of his own collection of poems, he seems to want a piece of the soil and a piece of the sky -- Ek tukda dharti, ek tukda akash.