Universe vs Multiverses:To masadi

Re: # 167 Masadi said;

((((Of course a related option would be that the uncollapsed "wave functions" seem uncollapsed to you because of a limit of perception, limited to this universe, they have collapsed in all their potentialities (aalimeen) in multiple universes, that are beyond your field of observation, but the limitless though based on discretion observation by God has collapsed them in all their potentialities in multiverses)))))

My Response..;

So you are interpreting "aalimeen" as ’Multiverses???Mr Masadi...You are swimming in the midst of Atlantic without life jacket...The concept of multiverses would explode the idea of creation and the big bang theory on which at least "scientific theology" is based (let me clear, I am not saying that it would necessarily deny the concept of God).

For it implies the infinity of matter and energy. Regardless of the paradoxes and the difficulties of its philosophical implication, one thing is clear that it would explode complementary concept of God and the "uncertainty at quantum level’’ (the Copenhagen’s stance) For if there are multiverses than there is nothing (rational) that can "necessitate" the concept of God or even the notion of ultimate reality (even if God ’actually’ exists) For the "scientific theology’’ (the one you advocating) to be true there MUST be only ‘’Universe’’ not multiverse….else your own philosophy would be inconsistent.

Masadi says;

((((because of a limit of perception, limited to this universe, they have collapsed in all their potentialities)))) (((( that are beyond your field of observation))))


Not a sound argument....It is only an assumption or at the most a "hypothetical possibility". There is nothing complementary here. If we cannot perceive those events than on what ground would we assume their existence???? You have said that these events are beyond our possibility. Are you deriving it from "scientific theory"? if you are, you have to have concept of multiverses and in that case we have to face a paradox that i have mentioned above....for it would deny the concept of "not-being" and as a result the concept of ultimate reality.

Masadi says;..

(((((((Of course it does, without observers there can be no reality, so God is necessitated at the quantum level early universe... ))))))


Mr Masadi...."necessitated" means complementary to each other. Well it is not easy to say that two concepts are "complementary" to each other in human knowledge because we don’t have the definition of that "necessity". It is kind of a "rational dogma" and itself implies certain philosophical outlook rather than a methodology of analysis..

What these developments on quantum level have done is that, it has exploded the classical materialism on which "Atheism" was based. philosophers have been holding this view since the medieval ages that concept of mechanical cause of effect or the independent existence of matter does not necessary deny the concept of God....but second rank thinkers of 18th and 19th century kept sticking to this view and used it as an effective weapon against theology. But even after the demise of classical materialism both on scientific and philosophical level these second rank thinkers came 180 degree that the concept of God is not necessary to explain this phenomenon on Quantum level.(though they are right but didn’t accept when theology was vulnerable to such attacks).

Only hypocrisy has the existence independent of any subject and sense datum. The developments on Quantum level show the limitations and uncertainty of science. Despite being a religious person i am not a big follower of science and religion debate (whether of conflict or reconciliation). In my humble opinion (anybody can disagree with it, and I know I am hitting the hornets net...good luck to my fingers), they both have different frameworks and methodologies. The developments in the Modern physics, however, have revived the confidence of theologians. But i think these developments have contributed to the cause in a ’negative’ way i.e. it has exploded the classical materialism and left the atheists alone in the desert without a drop of water. It has shown the failure of science in solving the problem of existence and other age old question which have been raised by some of the greatest minds ever to walk this planet. From this point religious epistemology comes into play and picks the thread up from here.(what we have been discussing in God knows how many posts).