| « November 2009 » | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| S | M | T | W | T | F | S |
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 |
| 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 |
| 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 |
| 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 |
| 29 | 30 | |||||
Recently by cyclone
- Has Chowk become a Trojan Horse? Here's why it's such a negative place:
- where are Augustine, Tazeen, Optimistic_Aadil,Shobig, Goonga, Ayesha, Khakiflash, Sarah, Cigar, Diarox, and many more....???
- Moreen, WTF?
- Sorry Moreen, no can do
- the longing (a short story)
- the attack of angry mediocrity
- the death of optimism?
- "thinkingstorm" is retired for a while
[So here's my "hidden agenda": To help chowk become what it once promised to be. A place where a genuine progressive movement of pakistani thinkers, writers, artists, doers, can take place. So ya, I'm just "pscho, deranged, delusional, crazy"; I'm taking chowk too "seriously", "it's just a waste time; time pass site". etc. etc. etc. However, I'm simply stating "the jig's up fool"]
Chowk was initially launched and considered a site where Pakistanis around the world could gather, think, and grow. A place for poets and writers, and thinkers, and doers...all Pakistani. Most nations, especially developing countries, benefit a great deal from spontaneous "movements" like Chowk. Although it starts as a musing of some independent thinkers, it takes a life of it's own as a movement. A place like this, has been, and will always be, just as interesting to the foes of that developing nation. For if you derail such a community from moving forward on its purpose, as a foe, this little investment of disruption, is going to pay in the long term. It's a pre-emptive strike type of a notion.
As far as sites go, normal Indian audiences are prone to go to regional indian sites, or sites that are unabashedly indian. An anlysis of chowk has shown that an overwhelming majority of chowk is a Pakistani readership. So one has to wonder about the indian readership that does exist on chowk. True, there are friends here. There is also indian content that gets offered up once in a while, and it is a desi site...but it still does not explain the dedicated 24/7 effort of some indians that have nothing to offer but hatred of Pakistan and Islam. Why are they here?
Out of the total readership of chowk, a very small size of it is actually indian. While a lot of the indian interactors are interested in interacting like anyone else, a small portion of the indian visitors are paid or voluntary disruptors.
So the idea is to keep Pakistanis on the defensive. About the religion, about the country...so instead of being open minded, positive, and progressive thinking, most Pakistanis end up being on the defensive. Over time, being attacked takes a toll on civil and intellectual discourse, and Pakistanis end up finding themselves embroiled more and more in non-positive behavior, and close mindedness. Which leads to a lack of intellectual progress. This is not a co-incidence, this process is initiated by the folks that bankroll the disrupters.
So how do you tackle these voluntary/paid disrupters that have successfully derailed most creative or logical Pakistani discourse on chowk?
Well, you promote creativity where you see it. You make sure that the normal baits (pakistan sucks, islam sucks) are not responded to, and the discussion remains focused on the topics. You develop a code of ethics which states that you and fellow interactors, will not feed the troll (the disrupters)
As it stands now, it is harder than ever to let any profitable progressive movement take form here, that's good for Pakistan and Pakistanis.
So the question is: does one attempt to clean house here, or move to a new house?
Thanks in advance for the replies.
Yours
thinkingstorm/Hurricane/Cyclone/Typhoon
p.s. I'm going to be away from the computer, as I'm working in the campaign offices to turn Nevada and Colorado into blue states. So apologies in advance, will not be able to answer your posts today, but will read them...
add to my favorite ilogs
flag objectionable content
Amazing story :)
Happy Diwali Harish pi.
Let the others get bolder, after a while they will be tired. By reacting, you're only provoking a cycle of abuse and counter-abuse. By remaining calm, you can remove the wind from their sails.
"but it is precisely here that the problem lies. Pak interactors enthusiastically pick up the gauntlet and get into action with all they have got. Indeed many seem to come to Chowk simply to seek such strife for thrills and entertainment; to the extent that they would go out and do some baiting of their own to create ruckus if none previously existed. Thus one can see a fair share of threads by Pak interactors, provoking Indians/Hindus over silly things."
Agreed. I actually started an informal email campaign (last year) requesting that people not give into the baiting....but I guess it's too late in the game for too many people...and I was told that it's a good idea, but the "other" will get more bold and abuse more if one does not retaliate.
However, one needs to observe what is going on as well. These strategies are well known. Used in crowds, to disrupt social movements, to demoralize, confuse and confound...one needs to know that the effort against oneself is sizeable indeed.
I don't think Chowk can be salvaged now. It has become what it has become...and that culture has now taken root.
Barring a revolutionary change of ownership and editorship....this place is destined to remain a vortex of negativity.
thanks for your comments.
True. :)
I for one have now felt that I've won that competition several times over and would like to get back to the business of pontification.
"In all probability, you don't have paid hindu trolls here, all the trolls like me are unpaid (otherwise, I would have made good money by now, just by interacting on chowk:-)"
Yes, I thought you were in the voluntary troll category :D
"Further, though people like me are solid idiots, they may sometimes be saying things which are useful"
I agree, being a simpleton myself, I know that I spout pearls of wisdom, often.
"Ideas do not develop in restricted domain, do you think that you can create the similar atmosphere of "putting people on defensive" on an indian site, either about India or Hinduism. "
In fact indians are very cognizant of the facts I speak. They always make a point not to discuss indian problems in front of non-indians. The point I'm trying to make is that there is a movement a foot to derail constructive discourse between Pakistanis. I'm not saying that we should not "come up with ideas in a vacuum", but what I am saying is that the disruption factor is so high, it is impossible for us to be self critical and thoughtful on chowk (by us, I mean Pakistanis)
No, chowk should not post any such thing. However, chowk has soured. There are so many great minds on this site, and they are all reduced to childish tu tu main main. There is an ecology of a social site, which requires care and nurturing. Unchecked disruption should not and cannot be allowed in such a place....however, chowk editors are actually the root of the problem.
'nuff said.
Thanks for your comments.
But it is precisely here that the problem lies. Pak interactors enthusiastically pick up the gauntlet and get into action with all they have got. Indeed many seem to come to Chowk simply to seek such strife for thrills and entertainment; to the extent that they would go out and do some baiting of their own to create ruckus if none previously existed. Thus one can see a fair share of threads by Pak interactors, provoking Indians/Hindus over silly things.
Lastly, Pak interactors seem to fight among themselves a lot more, with or without Indian/Hindu help; many seem to exist on Chowk solely to indulge in name calling with each other. And this, regardless of the relevance of their petty arguments to the topic of discussion which they disrupt, or its (i.e. their argument's) merit. Some have taken this art form to such professional heights that if their regular sparring partners are not around, they would just as soon pick some other participant on the thread to indulge in their favorite pastime.
Chowk isn't a serious discussion (or talent development) site by any stretch of imagination; it never was and, likely, never will be. Its (addictive) attraction to many interactors, as well as to the advertisers is, in fact, due primarily to this never ending entertainment/nuisance factor.
add to Posted by pinku on Monday October 27, 2008 05:33 pm
So far "Chowk" says "India Pakistan Idea identities"...
Good concern thinking storm. Your wishes are good but your conclusions may be wrong. Not trying to make you defensive here. In all probability, you don't have paid hindu trolls here, all the trolls like me are unpaid (otherwise, I would have made good money by now, just by interacting on chowk:-), I even wrote a few pomis, for which I would have charged much more). Further, though people like me are solid idiots, they may sometimes be saying things which are useful. Ideas do not develop in restricted domain, do you think that you can create the similar atmosphere of "putting people on defensive" on an indian site, either about India or Hinduism.
Do you know that most articles that are progressive go un-noticed by trolls like me. Only a distinct category of articles and comments attract these trolls (who as i said are unfortunately un-paid but do a good job of troll here).
An exclusive domain for just pakistanis may actually be helpful if this site is a formal site for planners from Pakistan and then probably it would have been on an intranet:-) I am not sure how helpful it will be when all you want to do is think, develop and spread right ideas (and not wrong ones).
Are these trolls stopping you from expressing good ideas, great thoughts, great solutions about Pakistan, or they simply do not let you enjoy the thoughts that you want to settle with. Again if latter is because they are giving valid arguments then they are helping you even if that is not their intention.
But if what you feel is what Chowk feels then Chowk should post a suggestion on its site, that the site is for Pakistanis to interact among themselves and Indians are discouraged. Then you will be in a position to say whatever you want to say about Islam/Pakistan/Hinduism/India (you are still free, except that you have others who may comment on your ideas).
cyclone
- Interacts: 17
- iLogs: 8
- Gallery: 0
- Page views: 2831
- Last visitor: guest
- Member since: Dec 19 2007
- Last signin: Dec 31 1969
- Send a message
- Add as friend
- Add to ignore list
- Add to block list


