Qadianis have every right to practice their religion, but not usurp the idenitity of Muslims

Izuber Bhai, PKSZ Sahib, Harry Pi, majumdar bhai, Philosopher Bro, and Mureed Sahib:

Thank you all very much for your positive contributions to this very important subject.

Dear Mr. Kulharee,
I thank you also for once again proving my point that most of the evils of Qadianiat can be traced to people like you and your inimitable and idiotic profanity.

Posted by PKSZ_shadbad on Wednesday June 18, 2008 04:53 pm
But izuber, how do you define Islam? and who is the final authority to approve that defination? Can you please clarify? or Salim, may be you can?

Define Islam
Islam and how it is misunderstood not only by non-Muslims, who think of it as an oppressive religion but also by the Muslim who claims it is the greatest religion which would save mankind but have not saved it.
Why the non-Muslims misunderstand Islam, and why the Muslims also misunderstand Islam.
We all know Muhammad the Prophet brought only one Islam, just one. But today we have all kinds of beliefs which claim to be the Islamic faith but the beliefs are so different and so inconsistent with each other that each condemn the others as not being Islam or Islamic, condemn to the point of labeling them as apostates against whom they are willing to fight and to kill.
Islam is not just a faith, a belief. It is a way of life. And the way of life of the Muslims of today is so varied and different from each other that there is utter confusion. Islam is not meant to confuse its followers and deny their hassanah in this world. If it does then it is not Islam, the religion of Allah . that is wrong, but the numerous and tendentious interpretations of Islam which are wrong. What needs to be corrected is not Islam but the interpretations of Islam by mere man, no matter how learned he may be.
If Islam is to bring hassanah to the faithful then it needs to be interpreted by all who are learned in all fields. And the interpretations should begin from the beginning, from the Quran and the verified Hadiths, without regard for the interpretations of those who through their own understanding and interpretations in the past have divided the ummah.

But izuber, how do you define Islam? and who is the final authority to approve that defination? Can you please clarify? or Salim, may be you can?

Absolutely the Qadianis and people of any other faith have the God given right to conduct their worships and rituals, civic & social activities.
However, no one has the right to tamper with Islam, Islamic knowledge, or the belief system.
Islam does not force itself on others to convert, it is one's choice by wisdom if they find it interesting enough they revert to it themselves.
The copyright to the deen of Islam is reserved and there are no waivers granted in this lieu.
It's plain and simple, do what you care to do but do not tamper with Islam" and there is a big bold period after that.

Kulharee,

Not only have I met Qadiyanis, my roommate and good friend in uni for 1 year was a Qadiyani. I visited his casa as well, with all the mirza and his progeny pictures all over the place :). The dude wanted to "convert" to marry a sunni girl. Good guy, same problems as the rest of us.

Not only that, as I've mentioned many times before, most of the pakis in my uni were mirzais. And we all hung out together and did miserably in academics together...until I ditched them and aced academics. But I don't blame the poor academic standing on mirazis...I blame it on too much partying :)

Salimbhai,

Just becuase a few Mirzaee chowkies abuse the Holy Prophet does not mean that you can generalise for all Mirzaees. If I understand right they accept his Prophethood and by and large they revere him. Eg Sattarbhai and Yasser mian's late father.

Mirzaees who abuse the Holy Prophet should be classified with other Muslims (incl those on chowk) who abuse the Prohet as murtids.

Regards

Can you guys tell your mouths from your assholes? Harri and Chuha? Have you ever met an Ahmadi, visited an Ahmadi mosque, or read a single book by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Nabee Allah?

Who the fuk do you think you are to issue grand acquiescences as to what Ahmadis should be allowed to do and what not? I mean seriously, who the fuk do you think you are? Yesterday 4 Shias were killed in Dera Ismail Khan (inside a Shia mosque) by Sunnis who believe that they were following the Sunnah and Shariah and Qooran and Hadees in doing such a deed. Now go and tell them that what they believe is not true and see where your heads end up. So shove these grand premonitions of whether Ahmadis are a sect or not, because no one made you incharge of that. Worry about your own ass.

Shame on you Chuhay for believing in garbage.

salim bhai

How come u have read my mind???

Government of Mr Bhutto wanted fair decision in 1974 assembly hearings.

They gave lot of lot of time and energy to this Ahmadiyya issue and till the last moments members of parliament were reluctant to declare Ahmadies as Non Muslims.

Things changed when attorney general Yahya Bakhtiar proved from Ahmadiyya literature that Ahmadies consider all other Muslim sects as Non Muslims.

That was the decisive moment and Ahmadies fell in their own trap and as they declared all other Muslims as infidels , hence government of Pakistan had to either declare Ahmadies as Muslims or rest of Pakistanis as Non Muslims.

So it is a fact that Ahmadies always wanted clash with main stream Muslims and they did it to fulfill their unlterior motives.

Now they are crying about persecution and our Ahmadiyya Jamaat is in the front lines to defame already marginalized and battered Muslims.

We sincerely believe that if Government of Pakistan do honest audit of our Ahmadiyya charity and make it public then half of Ahmadies will leave their jamaat in one day.

PKSZ sahib,

I too was of the same opinion as you.

unfortunately, this is not simply a sect. They require muslims to believe in the prophethood of mirza. Wha?

Also, new prophet = new religion.

Just like muslims aren't jews, even though we believe in Moses ...Mirzais aren't muslims eventhough they believe in the Holy Prophet. New prophet changes that game :)

“The problem arises when Qadianis insist on being accepted as Muslims”

First of all, by corollary of your statement, if Muslims in Pakistan are in a privileged position, (constitutionally, legally, socially or in whatever way) that in itself speaks volumes and is a slap on the face of equity. Why not focus on such fundamental issues instead of wasting energy on peripherals like who is Muslim and who is not.

Second, who gives authority to whom to make such decisions? This matter of deciding who can be qualified as a Muslim or not smacks of mediaevalist mentality (European mediaevalist on that) from which even today’s educated people cannot get them liberated. In times of Prophet (PBUH) many were accepted as Muslims even they were known munafiqs (or were not Muslim from heart – were doing it for expediency) Quran itself says so. Did Prophet expel them from Umma?

Third, why to blame Qadiani’s for their insistence on being Muslim? It was not their insistence, rather other’s mentality of being ‘thaikaydar’ of Islam (or Pakistan for that matter) which started that sinister movement of religious intolerance in the first place.

Fourth, can it be determined based on attitude of a few a groups’ doctrine? What is the official position of Qadiani’s regarding Prophet (PBUH). I know some Sunnis and Shias who can be even worse in their profanities; could be best friends to Danish cartoonist or like. Will that make Shias and Sunnnis also non-Muslim? Who will be left to be a Muslim? Come on, people.

Fifth: Why to entangle ourselves in theological nit picking and not busy ourselves in building a strong Pakistan where all may live in harmony and love. (Yes, it is a dream – but there are other dreamers - as John Lennon said in ‘Imagine’ – and we have to have some ideals, as Pakistan itself was an ideal – a star to guide, and look at its sorry state)

And last, so what, so what, man, if someone insists to be a Muslim, so what? Why not welcome them all. Why to cling to this medieval exclusionist ‘holier than thou’ mentality.

Grow up – people, grow up.

Salim pi,

I used to believe that Mirzais are just another sect of Islam. During my time on chowk I have come to realize that this is not true.

I've seen Kulharee and Banned insult the holy prophet. I've read from more sensible interactors (like Sattar) that the belief in Mirza's prophethood is mandatory for all muslims, etc.

So, now I am beginning to believe that Mirzais are not a sect. Much like how Sikhs are not a sect of Islam or how Muslims are not a sect of Judaism.

Anyhow, I agree with you, the Mirzais are entitled to the same lack of basic civic and civil rights as any other Pakistani!