"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

"Invite(all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in the ways that are best and most gracious."
Al Quran 16:125

Respected Khaki,
You can refer to me as Miss Khanam.
And There's no need to pay so much thanks to me. Its your right to ask and my duty to tell (the truth). So you are most welcome to ask questions on Islam or Comparative religion and demand answers. I will try my best to convey the information. InshAllah!
Yes, I believe , command over Arabic would help you best in understanding the Quran. And age can never be a hurdle in the way of something good. To give u an example of a Christian. I cannot remember his name but he's a dr. who discovered the deadbody of the Pharoah of Egypt which lay under sea for millions of years. He , flattered at his own achievement asked a local man (muslim) of that city that how amazing is that. The Man replied, You found the body now. But Our Creator, Allah swt mentioned it in the Quran 1400 yrs ago in Chapter 10 verse 92: "So this day we shall deliver your (dead) body (out from the sea) that you may be a sign to those who came after you! nd verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our signs."
The christian researcher was amazed and so decided to study Quran. For this purpose he learnt Arabic at the age of 60. But it was his passion. If you cannot learn arabic, due to busy schedule There's no need to get worried. Read the commentries of Quran. Its a Must in order to understand it. Only the translation wont help. Commentaries tell the context of each and every verse. Commentries are available by diff. scholars. for example At-tabari, Al-Qurtubi and Ibn Kathir. Moreover, There are sayings of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH which serve as a best commentry for the Quran. They are called Ahadith, collected and compiled by many. The most authentic are by 6 scholars. Top of the list is Sahih Bukhari. It is considered the most authentic book after Quran. After sahih Bukari comes Sahih Muslim. If you really want to study Quran. Do buy these books. Infact you can download it from Internet. its very easy now. islamic softwares are widely available. visit www.irf.net You will get all your answers there Inshallah.

The translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali is GOOD. it is highly recommended by Sir Ahmed Deedat. Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan's translation is also available. The thing is, Humans are bound to make errors therefore the english translation have chances of having errors in it. Like most of the translators, translate the arabic word "Jihad" as holy war. Whereas the word Jihad merely means to strive and struggle. While studying Quran, atleast u must have Arabic grammer.
I've ATLAS OF THE QURAN its very interesting and informative. do read it if u get a chance.

I really appreciate your efforts. Some humans do not even bother to seek the truth. atleast ure eager to know. the rest is upto u again whether u want to know it or jus want to show eargerness for it.its a saying of Jesus PBUH "Seek the truth and it shalll set you free". So seek it brother. For bible studies, there are several versions. The red letter bible contains the sayings of the JESUS PBUH in red letters. You will see that only few such lines are there in that bible. which means most of the bible is written by the people or companions. What we muslims demand and believe in is the Gospel of JESUS , what they have is the gospel of John, Matthew, Luke, Mark etc.There's new testament and old. I hope ure familiar with it.
You mentioned that you've studied many belief systems. can u briefly tell me what you think about Abrahamic Faiths. Judaism, christianity and Islam are interlinked. I hope u've studied them in detail. do let me know your opinion. What did u learn while studying these scriptures?!
Finding errors is the most amusing task, but finding errors in the Religious scriptures is even more amusing and challenging. So think of it this way. Get your pen paper and write down the errors you find in any scriptures. may it be a mathematical error or scientific or whatever. The moment you find an authentic error in any religious book, it is clear its not the word of True lord. As True Lord has to be smart enough . We Muslims believe infact all the religious people may they belong to christianity or judiasm, we believe that an error is not attributed to GOD. since HE is the supreme power. So its now very easy for you to analyze things. use logic, seek truth. I would recommend to u a Video, Dialogue between Dr. Zakir NAik (Muslim) and Dr. William Cambell (christian). They had a dialogue on the topic of Bible and Quran in the light of Science. Dr. william cambell challegend Zakir Naik to come and answer his questions. its a very good dialogue. Please do see it. half ur word would be done. u wont need to study the whole Quran or bible to find errors in it. u can find the video on internet.

And Allah knows the Best


Peace!

Khanam, Sir.
Very many thanks for your very full comments. I'm really flattered that you took so much of your time and trouble to compile such a comprehensive reply. I'm very tempted to take up the challenge in your final paragraph and re-read the Qur'an, but this time to consciously compare it with other 'sacred' texts - but are there enough hours in a human life to do that properly, especially since there are scores, if not hundreds, of other 'belief' systems? - and I'm very probably well over half-way through my life already! But I'm certainly not going to dismiss what what you say as I like to think I've an open mind. I certainly WILL be re-reading the Qur'an yet again - as I will also re-read the Bible and 'authoritative texts' of other religions (mainly in translation, of course), though I always have the problem at the back of my mind with the Qur'an wondering which translation comes closest to a definitive English translation. Even when I compare the four 'versions' I have I can see numerous variations between them - and I'm a bit too old to start learning Arabic which, I assume, would be the ideal.
Over the years I have read a fair bit of philosophy so some of the arguments you state on the logic of the existence or otherwise of a Supreme Deity are familiar. But even though I doubt if my studies in this respect are anything like as exhaustive as your own I would only ask the question - "Why then are not ALL philosophers theists? Is all their logic at fault?" I find that as hard to believe as much as I don't think that your own and other believers' logic is necessarily defective. I just DON'T KNOW!
I could go on so much longer but this is not the place to do it - and it would take such a long time with the very likely result that even at the end of prolonged discussion with you I somehow don't see myself as coming down on one side or the other. But I thank you again for your thoughts. I will certainly come back to them now and then. So, with much appreciation again, I thank you most sincerely. If you do have any ideas about whoch is the 'best' available English translation of the Qur'an do come back here and let me know. For your information the ones I own are by:-
Ahmed Ali
Abdullah Yusuf Ali
M.S.A. Abdel Hakeem
N.J. Dawood.

Thank you, Sir. Cheers.

*my apologies for a late response*

Respected Khaki,
your questions:
1)why Islam should claim to have exclusivity of Divine authority more than, say, Judaism, Mormonism or Scientology?
2)There's probably no God!

First thing first!



PROVING THE EXISTENCE OF ALLAH (SWT)
CONGRATULATING AN ATHEIST

People normally follow the religion of their fathers. If his father is a Hindu; the son would be a hindu. the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.


LOGICAL CONCEPT OF GOD

My first question to the atheist will be: "What is the definition of God?" For a person to say there is no God, he should know what the meaning of God is. If I hold a book and say that ‘this is a pen’, for the opposite person to say, ‘it is not a pen’, he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognise or identify the object I am holding in my hand. For him to say this is not a pen, he should at least know what a pen means. Similarly for an atheist to say ‘there is no God’, he should at least know the concept of God. His concept of God would be derived from the surroundings in which he lives. The god that a large number of people worship has got human qualities - therefore he does not believe in such a god. Similarly a Muslim too does not and should not believe in such false gods.
If a non-Muslim believes that Islam is a merciless religion with something to do with terrorism; a religion which does not give rights to women; a religion which contradicts science; in his limited sense that non-Muslim is correct to reject such Islam. The problem is he has a wrong picture of Islam. Even I reject such a false picture of Islam, but at the same time, it becomes my duty as a Muslim to present the correct picture of Islam to that non-Muslim i.e. Islam is a merciful religion, it gives equal rights to the women, it is not incompatible with logic, reason and science; if I present the correct facts about Islam, that non-Muslim may Inshallah accept Islam.
Similarly the atheist rejects the false gods and the duty of every Muslim is to present the correct concept of God which he shall Insha Allah not refuse.
(You may refer to my article, ‘Concept of God in Islam’, for more details)

QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE

The methods of proving the existence of God with usage of the material provided in the ‘Concept of God in Islam’ to an atheist may satisfy some but not all.
Many atheists demand a scientific proof for the existence of God. I agree that today is the age of science and technology. Let us use scientific knowledge to kill two birds with one stone, i.e. to prove the existence of God and simultaneously prove that the Qur’an is a revelation of God.
If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’ Some may say ‘the producer’ while others may say ‘the manufacturer.’ What ever answer the person gives, keep it in your mind, the answer will always be either the creator, the producer, the manufacturer or some what of the same meaning, i.e. the person who has made it or created it. Don’t grapple with words, whatever answer he gives, the meaning will be same, therefore accept it.
SCIENTIFIC FACTS MENTIONED IN THE QUR’AN: for details on this subject please refer to my book, ‘THE QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE – COMPATIBLE OR INCOMPATIBLE?

THEORY OF PROBABILITY

In mathematics there is a theory known as ‘Theory of Probability’. If you have two options, out of which one is right, and one is wrong, the chances that you will chose the right one is half, i.e. one out of the two will be correct. You have 50% chances of being correct. Similarly if you toss a coin the chances that your guess will be correct is 50% (1 out of 2) i.e. 1/2. If you toss a coin the second time, the chances that you will be correct in the second toss is again 50% i.e. half. But the chances that you will be correct in both the tosses is half multiplied by half (1/2 x 1/2) which is equal to 1/4 i.e. 50% of 50% which is equal to 25%. If you toss a coin the third time, chances that you will be correct all three times is (1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2) that is 1/8 or 50% of 50% of 50% that is 12½%.
A dice has got six sides. If you throw a dice and guess any number between 1 to 6, the chances that your guess will be correct is 1/6. If you throw the dice the second time, the chances that your guess will be correct in both the throws is (1/6 x 1/6) which is equal to 1/36. If you throw the dice the third time, the chances that all your three guesses are correct is (1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6) is equal to 1/216 that is less than 0.5 %.
Let us apply this theory of probability to the Qur’an, and assume that a person has guessed all the information that is mentioned in the Qur’an which was unknown at that time. Let us discuss the probability of all the guesses being simultaneously correct.
At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur’an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.
The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.
Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur’an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.

The Qur’an speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation. Only in three options the result is .0017%. I leave it upto you, to work out the probability if all the hundreds of the unknown facts were guesses, the chances of all of them being correct guesses simultaneously and there being not a single wrong guess. It is beyond human capacity to make all correct guesses without a single mistake, which itself is sufficient to prove to a logical person that the origin of the Qur’an is Divine.

CREATOR IS THE AUTHOR OF THE QUR’AN

The only logical answer to the question as to who could have mentioned all these scientific facts 1400 years ago before they were discovered, is exactly the same answer initially given by the atheist or any person, to the question who will be the first person who will be able to tell the mechanism of the unknown object. It is the ‘CREATOR’, the producer, the Manufacturer of the whole universe and its contents. In the English language He is ‘God’, or more appropriate in the Arabic language, ‘ALLAH’.

QUR’AN IS A BOOK OF SIGNS AND NOT SCIENCE

Let me remind you that the Qur’an is not a book of Science, ‘S-C-I-E-N-C-E’ but a book of Signs ‘S-I-G-N-S’ i.e. a book of ayaats. The Qur’an contains more than 6,000 ayaats, i.e. ‘signs’, out of which more than a thousand speak about Science. I am not trying to prove that the Qur’an is the word of God using scientific knowledge as a yard stick because any yardstick is supposed to be more superior than what is being checked or verified. For us Muslims the Qur’an is the Furqan i.e. criteria to judge right from wrong and the ultimate yardstick which is more superior to scientific knowledge.
But for an educated man who is an atheist, scientific knowledge is the ultimate test which he believes in. We do know that science many a times takes ‘U’ turns, therefore I have restricted the examples only to scientific facts which have sufficient proof and evidence and not scientific theories based on assumptions. Using the ultimate yardstick of the atheist, I am trying to prove to him that the Qur’an is the word of God and it contains the scientific knowledge which is his yardstick which was discovered recently, while the Qur’an was revealed 1400 year ago. At the end of the discussion, we both come to the same conclusion that God though superior to science, is not incompatible with it.

SCIENCE IS ELIMINATING MODELS OF GOD BUT NOT GOD

Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God. If you translate this into Arabic, it is La illaha illal la, There is no god, (god with a small ‘g’ that is fake god) but God (with a capital ‘G’).
Surah Fussilat:
"Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"
[Al-Quran 41:53]


As far as your question why we consider the Quran as the pure word of God? is concerned, My advice to you is that you go through all the major scriptures once again but this time, you instead of reading it, compare them with one another and most importantly, compare it with Logic. I can prove to u easily that Quran is the word of God. It is wihtout any errors or modifications. You wont be able to point any single verse against logic and auntheicity or against Humanity on the whole. i dunt want u to say i am just advocating my religion. Since a hindu would say his Vedas are the word of God. A christian would say Bible is th word of God, sikh would say his book is the word of God...and this debate would go on. But Logical proof is what matters. So Do your research. And let me know when ure done with it. I'll be glad enough to yet again provide you more information which would act as a spiritual healing.

peace!

i can just say its the question of extreme ignorance.

i really admire the way you take all our responses without any offense or indecency unlike some other people....there are very few people who raise questions;ppl generally believe what their families told them to.....you have the right to believe what you want to but i think the soundness of the heaven and the earth, the order of the universe, the harmony among created things, all indicate that a divine power exists. These created things either created themselves-which is impossible-or man created himself then created them-which is also impossible: Were they created by nothing? or were they themselves the creators?

Khanam, I'm really flattered that you also have given my thoughts so much time and consideration - and all without taking offence! Your responses are indeed a model of restraint and reason. But I still do not see why Islam should claim to have exclusivity of Divine authority more than, say, Judaism, Mormonism or Scientology. Throughout childhood I was taught that Roman Catholicism was the unique repository of Divine Revelation - although other Christian churches may contain elements of 'truth', the R.C. Church was the 'Real McCoy' and couldn't be bettered. Hardly anything was said about non-Christian beliefs - "Why should time be wasted on heresies?" seemed to be the attitude. I think my own feelings at the time were of pity that these 'poor' people didn't have the opportunity to share or didn't choose to be part of our uniquely enlightened family.(!) I retained that attitude until my mid-20s when, rather belatedly, I started to question the beliefs with which I'd been (literally) indoctrinated. One of the difficulties I have now is that given how our lives are so time-limited and that there are so many religions in existence, it's just not feasible to devote a great deal of time to more than just a few. Apart from having read the Koran several times and the Bible from cover to cover 5 times to date in 3 different versions (very few Christians have even read it right though even once!) I have also read the Bhagavad-Gita at least 3 times (with annotated commentaries) as well as numerous Buddhist publications. Buddhism, religion or not, I find attractive in three particular aspects - its non-requirement to believe in an independent and interventionist Deity, its displaying the greatest respect for animals (a big thing with me), in fact for ALL life forms, and its non-proselytising (though, yes, I am aware of some of the horrors going on in Sri Lanka carried out by nominal Buddhists). So anyway, that is the way I've been leaning for many years now, without taking any plunge into embracing a single particular belief. Now if I could live for 2 or 3 centuries I might be able to do justice to studying some of them - but I've got a feeling that at the end of my extended life I'd probably still be in the precise position that I find myself in now, namely I think that there's probably no God! Best wishes to you, Sir!

As far as Sunil is concerned, He spoke without logic but we would deal with him with logic. If gets it, well and good. if he still argues, then he's among those who only argue for the sake of arguement.

U re rite at ur point sarah. but we can't say who have fath n who dont! I know he has read quran several times. and still faith didnt come to him becaz maybe he has been reading it jus for the sake of reading like many muslims do! I want KHAKI to ask questions freely. as far as his faith is concerned...Allah knows best who is better in seeking truth. I know and u know that Allah puts us all into tests. But it would take Khaki some time to arrive at understanding. I really hope he pays attention. I am sincere in helping him out. InshAllah

U re rite at ur point sarah. but we can't say who have fath n who dont! I know he has read quran several times. and still faith didnt come to him becaz maybe he has been reading it jus for the sake of reading like many muslims do! I want KHAKI to ask questions freely. as far as his faith is concerned...Allah knows best who is better in seeking truth. I know and u know that Allah puts us all into tests. But it would take Khaki some time to arrive at understanding. I really hope he pays attention. I am sincere in helping him out. InshAllah

well said khanam i agree quran pak is for all but a person who doesn't believe will consider it as just another religious book you ahve the example of "sunil"

Allah says
"Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"
[Al-Quran 41:53]
So Ask, whatever you want to ask. And make ur questions and thoughts clear so that a proper answer can be given to you.

Regards
FeemanAllah

"May peace be upon them, those who recieve guidence"
Dear Khaki,
Qu'ran encourages us to ponder upon things and find logical answers. Only then we would be on the right path. I am a Muslim. And a Muslim by definition is the one who "sumbits his will to Allah; One Lord". Now belief in One lord does not mean blind belief without any logical proof. Even spirituality demands logic and autthenticity. So Learning and asking questions is something good. I am glad that atleast ure "seeking the truth" . As long as u're interested in knowing the answers, your questions carry no offence. And yes, It is not necesaary that only those who have faith can read the Quran. Its a book for all. Muslim declares his faith saying "La Ilaha ILaL Allah Muahmmad-ur- Rasool Allah" which in english means "There is not god but Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger". You have already said the first part of the shahadat i.e "There is no god" I just have to proof to u "but Allah". which I would be very glad to do. and prove it to u that Qu'ran is the word of God. But I can do it only, if you show patience and eagerness for it.

Thank you, S., but the more I 're-examine' the world the more I think that if there is a Supreme Deity who created it, it's not one I either respect or wish to worship. If you were omniscient and had omnipotent power I would be surprised if you yourself couldn't have created a better world and Universe. As for reading the Quran (which I've done at least 7 times in 4 different translations - rather more than most non-muslims, I suspect)), if having 'faith' is a pre-condition to 'review' I would have thought that the same would apply to any religion or belief system - Believe in its truth first? Hmmmm. Not really useful or practical advice for an agnostic. But in spite of appearances I AM trying to keep an open mind - though I've been doing that for decades! However, I'm grateful for your thoughts. Very worthwhile - Thanks.

that's all about belief or what we call iman in our daily life terminology khakiflash!!! and to strengthen that faith look around yourself.....re-examine the world around you.....it will provide you a lot of clues that a supreme power exists..........review Quran but only if you have faith

So, as I'm in the 'can't be sure' category rather than proclaiming that 'there's DEFINITELY no god(s)' I am NOT a kafir? Don't know if I'm disappointed or not - especially since a few months ago I unsucceesfully attempted to change my Chowkname to 'Khakikafir'. I like the alliteration of that made-up word.

non-believers = 'kafirs', atheists

And thanks to Ravi too, though I don't quite understand the term 'NON-believers'. Assuming that non-believers does NOT include adherents of Christianity and Judaism (or does it?) I take it that, as well as agnostics like myself and atheists, the verses could be directed equally towards Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, shamanists, pagans and any one of a myriad of other religions with their own creeds - and let's not forget Scientologists, though, to be fair, I hear that it IS possible to be a member of that 'cult' (I use the word advisedly!) and simultaneously to be a Christian - though I can't quite get my head around that. But thanks for your response - even if it has left me a tad more confused than I was before I wrote the article.

Not quite, viqarm. I find it reasonable to assume that there's PROBABLY intelligent life in the Universe outside the confines of Earth - though I can't prove it and I certainly perceive no evidence of it. But I think it's a more likely possibility than there being a capricious, vindictive, contradictory, authoritarian Supreme Being who is so low in self-esteem that it needs constant reminding how great IT is - but I concede that I COULD be wrong!

if one has no senses
that make any perception
(one is dumb living matter)
there's no reality or un-
reality for the poor thing.

Tell a man with a medieval head:
"There's probably no God...."
He'd say, "Probability's my foot."
Ask Mohamad(pbuh), ask Gabriel
They'd tell you who God is
and what he does -
sends all non-believers to hell
and believers to jannat where
he lives in his homeland of a star
near the crescent moon -
A symbol imprinted in the head of
a medieval man the day he was born.

Interesting ... so you think that reality is determined by perceptions.