India Did Not Kick Us Out

the article is a news breafing......what is it doing here.........kulharee bhai......how bout making a movie on mukhtaran......?u can b the producer......i the director and the internationally acclaimed kermani jee.......can b the.....you know what!

And ... bringing down Sheema Kermani hurts my own `nationalist agenda` as you put it...

But somebody has to do it... because Kermani makes all people genuinely trying for democracy, women`s rights and India-Pakistan normalcy look bad.

Manto dont work urself up over this guy, he is not worth it.

My allegations are not based on hearsay. I was THERE. I have had the unfortunate experience of being face to face her... I am not asking you- an ultra-nationalist fanatic- to change your view... but I have already mentioned what I think of her.

I heard her speak at Yale... she said the people HAD no right to decide culture... that it ought to be imposed on them (hinting ofcourse towards Musharraf who has promoted culture- ironic then that she criticises Zia-ul-Haq... one dictator is good but the other is bad)
I have no qualms with this view per se but it is a response to your attempt to mix this issue with other issues...

Nor is this the first time art has faced ``curbs`` in India... wasn`t a play on Jinnah banned a few months ago which didn`t even address political issues? Tell me why Ballu don`t you say a word or two about Naheed Siddiqui, if Sheema Kermani is merely an artist... Siddiqui is a much better artist than Sheema Kermani... why support only those who are willing to toe the line?

The cause of Sheema Kermani`s angst is not zia... he has been dead for 18 years... and as a kid I do remember being taught Kathak dance at school in 1989... The cause of Kermani`s angst is that majority of Pakistan having a Muslim population does not accept dance as their own... but that is not just Pakistan`s problem... a great majority of Indian Muslims are even more conservative...

And while I support all art forms.. pray tell.. why must every Pakistani necessarily accept Shima Kermani`s art form? What Kermani can`t take is that there would be people in Pakistani society- who for whatever reason- will denounce Indian classical dance as Hindu culture... sad as it is... it is the right of these people.


I write as someone who supports Indian classical art forms for the reasons enumerated previously.

Re: # 43

Give us the link or the complete text of Sheema`s statements..............do not quote her out of context and do not mix her statements with your own made up falsities......................... and do not make allegationjs based upon hearsays....................let us see Mr-Aspiring-Lawyer to what extent you can go to bad mouth others and spread false propaganda for your own nationalistic agenda.........

``By promoting herself as this tragically comic figure- she has done nothing but discredit both Indian classical dance and her women`s rights organisation. ``

There you go again.......do you want to say that she gets publicity and invitations for performance because she narrates the tragedy of being an indian classical dancer in Pakistan....do you imply that she gets promoted because she bad mouths Pakistan`s `cultural` policies which has tried to banish everything impure (and indian) from its `culture`? ...................you are certainly sounding like General Musharaff now.........

A gem..

According to Ballu Khan- our resident chowk Indian nationalist- for a Pakistani dancer to promote herself it is absolutely necessary for her to bad-mouth Pakistan.

You sir remain a bigger fool than Musharraf with his ``get raped-go to Canada`` comment.

Another Irony...

Ironically... Sheema Kermani, judging by her comments at Yale, opposes democracy and is very Pro-Musharraf, given that he took special interest in promoting culture and is socially liberal in his policies...

At Yale ... Sheema absolutely denounced democratic expression of the masses... saying that masses should not be allowed to decide what art and culture should be...She said it at Yale 9-10th April 2001 ...

If she denies it she is a liar.

This last comment shows your ignorance of Shima`s track record.

By promoting herself as this tragically comic figure- she has done nothing but discredit both Indian classical dance and her women`s rights organisation.

There are several Indian classical dancers in Pakistan who are better than her... and several women`s rights activists who`ve done a thousand times more for women`s rights in Pakistan than her.

``Sheema Kermani`s agenda is based on self promotion much like your pathetic ultra-nationalist agenda..``

How can you charge a dancer trying to promote herself???? Every artist has a right to claim his exquisite lineages and `promote` herself............this is an unusual charge..................................unless you also claim like your puny dictator that by bad mouthing Pakistan she is trying to get a Visa and make money.............I am really sorry to see where this nonsense is coming out from.......................you remain as pathetic a creature as your puny dictator................

When I promote Indian art forms I have an agenda... it is a much better agenda than the self-promotion of this Sheema person... She did not refer to Zia`s NOCs.... I was there when I heard her claim that Pakistan had banned classical music through DEMOCRATIC legislation in the 1990s... Most of her claims are lies...

As for linkages between classical dance and women`s empowerment... I might not have seen the linkage a few years ago but I do see the linkage between DANCE in general and women`s empowerment.... However... Sheema Kermani`s agenda is based on self promotion much like your pathetic ultra-nationalist agenda..

Most liberals in Pakistan are sick of her because she discredits all genuine attempts at reform in Pakistan but they don`t say anything because ... here is what a chowk liberal wrote to me:

``First on sheema kirmani i would hesitate to attack her because she`s already performing an art in a society not necessarily accpeting of dance. ... her verbal bouts on pakistan are probably a reflectin of her confused mind - an aggressive reaction to the perceptions in society of her art``


I ofcourse have no time for double standards for Mullahs and so called Liberals... if I abuse Mullahs morn to evening I should extend the same courtesy to the so called liberals as well..

Re: # 38

Could you elaborate on her lies a bit...............

Waisay whether I am a TNTist, Neo-TNTist or just plain Pakistani, I love anything that puts one up Mullahs` rearend... whether I understand it or pretend to understand it

And I know Indian classical Music and dance (Which is as much a part of our culture as India`s) burns the Mullah rearend like no other... so I love it.

My objection to Kermani is to her lies... not her causes.

YLH, don`t make a fool of yourself............it is praiseworthy in case you `promote` culture.........with or without agendas.............but you got typically into cultural politicking when you started bad mouthing Sheema because she spoke about the NOC-s, about Zia and the mullahs to the foreign press.............in doing so you acted like that puny dictator of yours who cannot see the linkages between muktar mai and women`s empowerment..........you made fun of Sheema when she talks about empowerment because you fail to see the linkages between women`s dance form and the issue of control over her body.................you call me a propagandist when this is exactly you were trying to do..........spread cheap propaganda against Sheema ..........

Shame on your bad mouthing Sheema!!!!

How easy it is for Indian propagandists like Ballu Khan to misuse, abuse and mix two completely different issues... and turn into a polemic against ``Pakistani neo-tnt-ists`` (as if they were persecuting classical dancers now)...

Meanwhile Farzana Versey takes umbrage to my quoting the Indian press... the ``utter nonsense`` that was ``spouted`` was merely quoting what Kerala News published.

PS:

It is amazing.. that I, who has done my bit promoting Indian performances, people to people contact, Indian classical music and other art forms in Lahore, am being accused by a person completely ignorant of the situation for opposing a liar.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_20-3-2005_pg7_19

Ofcourse Ballu Khan is such an idiot that he jumps to assumptions without investigating the matter. This woman told NYT that classical dance was banned when classical dance was the in thing in Lahore and Karachi... she is a liar who lies very often.


FV,

Very sad to hear that my thread on unplugged prompted you to write this.

I maintain... Jai Hind.