The Violent Face of South Asia

#93

I have no problem acknowledging stagnation in agricultural incomes. Farm output has stagnated, hardly rising 1-2% a year over the last decade. And I am not sure about the message I conveyed earlier, though I may disagree with Sainath`s style (specially when he speaks) when I have sat down and discussed substance of the issues with him, I have found him to be an eminently reasonable preson.

What I wished to convey to you is with regard to goverment spending on rural (farm to market roads, cold storages, irrigation ...). Government spending in infrastructure (both rural and urban) in India is low because of the crippling effect of wages & pensions and due to spending on subsidies. That is the critical issue.

When a politician like Sharad Pawar calls for increased spending on agriculture it is nothing but a siren call to his constituency and the beginning of another round of pork barrel spending, a further increase in agricultural subsidies. This is smilar to the farcas over minimum support prices every year.

http://indiabudget.nic.in/ub2005-06/bh/bh1.pdf

nice read. natl horticulture venture, upswing in agri credit... seems to me like a lotta dough is laid out for farm sector on a regular basis. don`t think any agri based nation is stupid enuf to totally ignore their primary livelihood.

salim - eh?

#92

Yes, its a prosperous region. A lot of it was based on the sugar cooperatives, thats SP`s main backers, they are the ones who made him who he is. Other than his usual games in pushing more subsidies towards already prosperous farmers, I think this time around we will see a push for ethanol blending in petrol.

Bongdongs,

Your having interacted with Sainath or growing up in Sharad Pawar`s constituency has nothing to do with the facts stated. The fact is that a very negligible amount of the budget is going to agriculture, an area where the majority of Indians work.

I request you to acknowledge a crisis in rural India and to read both my earlier post and the Hindu article with an equally open mind. I`m sure you`ve been hearing about the farmer suicides which are increasing at an alarming rate. In AP most of the naxal recruits are from the rural, farming areas. Not surprising is it?

#91 wangabandhu.. no kidding re Baramati? I met a person who refered to SP as ``Saheb`` as apparently everyone in that area calls him and was total gaga over him. I have not been there but his constituencey (and much western maharstra) are very prosporous.

#90

I have interacted with P. Sainath on several occasions and am well acquianted with his views.

btw, it might interest you to know I actually grew up in Sharad Pawar`s constituency of Baramati and am well acquainted with his agenda.

I would urge you to read my post again with an open mind and understand what I am saying.

Bongdongs,

No, I`m not mixing up any figures.

The Union Agriculture Minister, Sharad Pawar, himself says in an interview, ``the farming community has been ignored in this country. And especially so over the last eight to ten years. You will be surprised. In the budgetary provision, not more than two per cent money has been allocated for agriculture. [Though that is] where more than 65 per cent of the population works.``

For your benefit, here`s the link
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=2005111800141000.htm&date=2005/11/18/&prd=th&

It`s an article in The Hindu by one of India`s prominent journalists, P. Sainath. The last section of the article mentions these figures. There is other information too that might be of interest to you.

Dost Mittar, glad you haven`t forgotten `84. I made that comment because of post #43 of yours.

#82, kidbeegorilla {``observation to salim c, mr Kamath starts out with the generalization on all south asian violence, god knows why he started with pakistan`s fundos, maybe to try and interest pakistani readers here (sales tactic), but after the third para it becomes very clear he`s on about the naxalites, ...godot, yes, to some readers his initial comments may seem very bjp, but he is very bjp, so it`s natural, live with it. ``}

My dear primate cousin :)
Thank you for your observation. I tend to agree with you about the focus of the article being the maoists and naxalites. I just found it odd that the title states ``The Violent Face of South Asia,`` and starts off with Pakistan, BD, and Nepal as rings of violence around India`s neck. Then he ignores the most obvious and horrific slaughter of this century - the Gujarat massacres. Anyway, I think I recognize Mr. Kamath and am willing to live with this image.

Here is a dialogue from somewhere, I forget where (probably my dada), but ``Pehchaana? Pehchaana! :) Shaitaan ko kon nahin pehchaanta he balke hur shakhs jaanta he. Pehchaana. Naam pehle hi suna tha aaj surat dekhli. ``} Please don`t read too much into it. Just joking about a dialogue from some play.

#78

``Manmohan Singh calls for increasing national outlay for irrigation``
http://news.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=177327&cat=India

``He appealed to the states to formulate their own schemes to improve water management practices to stem weakening farm output.

Public investments in the irrigation sector have been declining steadily with states committing lesser funds to this core sector over the past few years.

The investment in irrigation had sharply come down from 23 percent of the outlay in the first plan to a mere five percent now.``

Arjun #76, {``OTOH, modi could have stopped the killing cold on day 1. The culpability is not the same....Dubya gets the blame for placing US troops in a situation where they accidentally kill Iraqi civilians..Modi is guilty as heck..``}

Arjun,
Very well put. Although you are probably the most critical Chowkie regarding Pakistan and Muslim extremists, to your credit you stick with logic and facts. Also, you do not let emotion and jingoism sway your opinions. When a situation is clearly and logically headed against your own viewpoints, you either stay silent or agree with the obvious truth. I admire these traits in you whether I am always in agreement with you or not. Thanks,

simran#78:

No, I did not forget Delhi riots. Please see my post#63:

``It is when the state itself becomes prejudiced that such atrocities take place. This is what happened in Gujarat in 2002 and Delhi in 1984.``

Simran #78

``In a country where around 65% of the people or even more, are dependent on agriculture, the government allocates a negligible amount of the budget to this sector (less than 4%)``

---

I`m not sure how you came up with this figure, I think you may be referring to a recent speech by Manmohan Singh where he spoke about how spending on irrigation as a % of federal government spending had fallen to around 4%.

Most of the Indian goverment budgets (federal and central) are eaten up in employee expenses (wages and pension) and on subsidies. There are a wide range of subsidies that target agriculture, for instance let me give you a few examples:

- Minimum support prices: The government gaurentees farmers minimum prices for their produce. Punjab actually receives a large share of this subsidy, as it is directed towards cereal procurement. It has also inadvertantly dis-incentivised farmers from moving away from cereal production.

- Fertilizer subsidies: Fertilizer plants are suppplied with subsidized feedstock (natural gas and naptha) to keep fertilizer prices down. This burden is very high today with rising energy prices.

- Power subsidy: Electricity for Agricultural use is highly subsidized. Agricultural power in several states is nearly free or may cost as little as 10% of industrial electricity charges. It goes without saying that this power is widely stolen for industrial and residential use. It has led to depletion of ground water and bankcruptcy for State electricity boards (Indian state run utility companies).

All together all such agricultural subsides represent over 20% of state and federal budgets. The problem in India is rather that spending on agriculture is crippled by subsides and is unable to develop infrastructure.

Gujju #67 {``Salim , Dost-Mittar......Modi is a democratically elected leader. Won a massive victory in a fair and free election.Many times over. Does not have a single case against him in any court of law. Was voted as the best chief minister in India by a nationwide opinion poll conducted by the popular India Today magazine. You folks may not like him too much , but the people of Gujarat and a whole lot of people in India have great admiration for him. Like hateful muslims and leftists , you are welcome to talk about trying him in international courts and hanging him , but that will only be possibly in your wet dreams. ``}

Gujju,
I am not denying his being an elected leader - and so was Hitler and Milosevic. And maybe, Slobodan didn`t have any cases against him either and the people of Serbia really supported him and only a small minority - Bosniac Muslims, Kossovar Muslims, and Croatian Catholics opposed him. The people he had raped, expelled, and killed were mostly hated minorities. All that said, the bastard is sitting in De Hague as is his buddy Sadman Houston in Baghdad - at the mercy of human rights lawyers and judges. I can dream and so can others for a just outcome, if not here, then in His court. Administrative efficiency and business acumen do not count when we are talking about mass murderers.

This article has been written by a well-known and respected Indian journalist.

I respect your point of views sir. However, your article makes us believe that every thing is violent in India’s neighborhood and in India because of non-Hindus (or Indians bot belonging to the heartland if you will). I am amazed at how biased and parochial the views of Indian writers are. A common Indian has been subjected to such a brain-washing that he assumes that everything is wrong with Pakistan, especially because of the Jihadis. Sir, how do you explain that Gujrat under Modi saw the massacre of Muslims in the thousands with their economic backbone crushed. Indian journalists, barring a few here and there, justified it by claiming that it was Muslims who had set a train under fire in Godhra that led to that retaliatory step.

When I watch Indian media and read stories in the newspapers/ magazines, I realize that strangely enough, the Government, establishment and your media get into a tacit collusion to malign Pakistan and Muslims. The most recent example was the way your media carried out the stories of Pakistan’s involvement in Delhi bombings after your Government did so. Where was the evidence? If your Government had an evidence, why are you, as a journalist, keeping hush now that the Government is no longer talking about it? If your Government did not have any evidence to start with, why did the media run all those stories? Was it not to malign Pakistan and therefore, its citizens, who being Muslims can provide a perfect excuse if your extremists want to take it out against Indian Muslims in future?

Sir, imho, Asian subcontinent is violent because some segments from its population everywhere are violent. Jihadis in Pakistan are definitely bad and the good thing about us is that we realized it and made a turn around. I hope you people also realize your narrow-mindedness, anti-Pakistaness and anti-Muslimness at the hands of the brain washing your media indulges in and try to make a turn around.

read some comments thru 19. bored. just a quick observation to salim c, mr Kamath starts out with the generalization on all south asian violence, god knows why he started with pakistan`s fundos, maybe to try and interest pakistani readers here (sales tactic), but after the third para it becomes very clear he`s on about the naxalites, and that`s basically what the whole rest of his article is about. I don`t think he`s hitching himself to all kinds of violence in just one article, just trying to focus. but then, I`m not mr kamath..

godot, yes, to some readers his initial comments may seem very bjp, but he is very bjp, so it`s natural, live with it.

#66, Stuka
I now understand where you are coming from. You are looking at it purely from a law and order situation. I guess one massive hurricane is preferable to four months of continuously sub-zero weather.