The Violent Face of South Asia

``M.V Kamath has penned more than forty books and also his autobiography… In his over 40-year journalistic career….From 1978-81 he was the Editor of the `Illustrated Weekly`…. At 84 today, he continues to be a famous columnist writing on political & social matter.``

...is this the same m. v. kamath who penned the following?

But West Bengal, economically, is in no better shape today than it was when first it came to power.

...for an 84 year `young` veteran this sentence and others in his debut article on chowk are mind numbingly atrocious. no wonder illustrated weekly of india had to close down after 150 years.

...now that the think tanker for RSS-BJP has retired may be chowk should ask him to write poems on ullu ka patha. i am sure he could turn out gems like:

Ullu ka patha keh diya usne
Woh lafz aise nikley mooh se
Jaise jazbatoun ki leher uth gayee
Ullu ke pathey ko raah mil gayee
Dhuein ko aag mil gayee.


;);)

#111 by mannyd on December 10, 2005 2:50am PT


1. Do you agree that non issual of US visa is NOT A PROOF of Modi`s guilt? It is at most a proof of the weekness of BJP PAC and strength of ANTI-BJP lobbies in the USA.


There is no BJP-PAC..the Indian-american lobbying groups didn`t lobby for modi`s visa...You can search through my posts..I`ve think people like samina who were protesting modi are a bunch of Islamist hypocrites..these are the same people who`ve never protested the saudis or the pakis who`ve killed a bunch of muslims...


2. Do you agree that US has no legal authority to try leaders of soverign nations? If you think USA does have that authority, please show me how it obtained that authority and what the process of legal defence is.


First, show me where I ever said the US has legal authority...The legal authority of the US only extends as far as it`s military/diplomatic might..



I personally put heavy faith in your statements about `Modi is guilty as heck or ` he could have stopped the killings cold on day1`, but they will not stand as proof in any court of law


Are you saying Modi couldn`t have stopped the rioting on day 1..like he did after Akshardham? Either he could and didn`t which means he`s guilty or he was just doing what the undhio eaters wanted him to do..which means they`re equally guilty..


Why was not the killing in Kashmir stopped cold on day1, day 1000, day 2000 or day 3000? Who is guilty as heck in Kashmir?


Apples and Oranges..In Kashmir, India is dealing with Islamic terrorism by a foreign country..That`s like saying because there are no IEDs in NYC, there should be no IEDs in baghdad..

I`ve lived through the 92 riots in Bombay..first the muslims rioted when the masjid was demolished...the cops could have stopped them cold but didn`t because the congress government is a bunch of sissies..then the sena rioted and the cops could have stopped them but the government didn`t want to shoot civilians(civilians who were rioting)..

kk #124: these indians are so clever they even fool themselves. :-)

Samosa #100, {``Re: # 99 This article is not about riots in gujarat. If you want to talk about violence in south asia then Kashmir comes in picture even before Gujarat. When you talk about gujarat to me, Gandhi, Patel, Textile, Kite Festival, Food and so many other things comes in picture. Riots happened in 2002, 1992 and also before. ...While in Gujarat that kind of violence does not exist and it is relatively prosperous compared to many other states of India. If you were discussing riots in India then mention gujarat otherwise dont need to bring godhra at every other nook and corner while discussing India. ``}

Samosa, friend,
Obviously you have some strong attachment to Gujarat and I commend you for your positive feelings. Stereotyping a place, a people, a party, a nation, and a religion is commonplace, especially when there are unatoned grievances and clear indications of horrible savagery by elements associated with them. For example, Germany, Islam, Ariel Sharon, Serbs, Hitler, Milosevich, Tojo, Emperoro Hirohito, Mongols, Crusaders, Ghazni, Ghori, Maharaja Aurangzeb, Nadir Khan, Tally Ban, AlKayda, UBL, KKK, the US South, Gujarat, Bombay, Paki Army, and various other entities are more and more remembered for misdeeds, massacres, aggression, looting, terrorism, and rape than anything else.

One way to climb out of the hole dug by others claiming to be your colleagues is to disassociate from them, perform some atonement (prakshit), and reject the deeds identified with the guilty ones. Post war Germany, and to some extent, Japan have done that. I think Gujaratais need to do that - who knows even Modi could say ``I am sorry?``

The fundamentalists and jihadis in Pakistan are creating havoc.
In Bangladesh, it is the same story.
In Nepal the Maoists are creating havoc.

In Bihar, Andhra Pradesh and even in Karnataka, Maoists are steadily thriving.

...last line somehow manages to exclude india from being one of those bad bad places like pakistan, bangladesh and nepal...damn clever, i must say...;)

#103 Jang {``salim, your post #99 was so full of wisom, that it brought tears to my eyes. your are a noble, compassionate, intelligent, balanced and articulate person. please accept my admiration.
(my post is likely to be filtered by the chowk staff for not ignoring interact guidelines, but so be it.)``}

Jang, my good friend,
Making you cry was not my intention. After all, you have made me laugh so much with your increasingly funny humor. I read your message and there was no filtering performed by our esteemed new editor. I think that such apprehensions about her are easily diminished by the fact that she has published Mr. Kampath`s masterpiece here. Thanks for your kind comments.

Ranger #105 {``it is in people of India`s interest that mass killings of muslims takes place in every state in the country. That will leave our leaders with no other option but to concentrate on providing us with a decent administration....``}

Gujju,
You leave no doubts about your viewpoints. I am sure that Mr. Kamath is very proud of your statement. I admire your courage in speaking the blunt truth of the right-wing Hindu agenda. May I suggest that you start preaching this in downtown Muradabad or better in old Lucknow. I fear for your safety - from sane, decent, and good Hindus in those places.

DM Sahib, #112 {``Of course, it does. Protecting the life and property of every citizen is the first requirement of good governance. My reference was to the present state of governance; as far as I am aware there is no genocide taking place now; in fact, the whole damn thing in 2002 was nothing more than a ghastly act to ensure Modi`s reelection. After he was reelected, there was a big attack on Akshardham temple by jihadis, and yet there was no Newtonian reaction to that attack. ``}

DM Sahib,
I think that statement of yours settles the debate on Modi and Gujarat. Mr. Modi can be a very good CM - when he wants to be. He can protect life and property when he deems it important. So, we just have a case of Bad Modi vs Good Modi. :)

Parthab #117, {``#117 by parthaab on December 10, 2005 5:57am PT
The fact that somebody, such as the above author, was editor of a mainstream (`secular`) Indian magazine, speaks volumes for the need seen by extreme right wing organisations, for such propaganda in India.``}

Parthab, good friend,
With people like you openly expressing their sanity and calling a spade a spade, I am even more hopeful of truth and justice prevailing in India. You are a source of balanced thinking in this forum. Thank you for saying the right thing in such few words. I admire your clarity.

Sanatani #113 and 114,
Thank you for your kind comments, my friend. Deaths of Hindus in Godhra or at the hands of Muslims during riots are painful, horrible, unjustified, and criminal. When people are shot by police to stop them from rioting, burning, looting, killing, and raping is what I term as justifiable violence. However, if this violence becomes selective, based on the partisanship of the police and/or the administration, I find it repulsive.
I realize that there are always two sides to every altercation. Unfortunately, it is the easily attacked innocent victims that fall prey to the violent ones seeking revenge. I have no problem in patronizing our dear Gujju person - he is a good kid at heart, just trying to impress females of the opposite sex, by boasting his masculinity, pretending to be violent, and threatening rape, murder, and arson to add passion to his youth. Fortunately, we believe in evolution, and our your hero is bound to come out of this hunter/gatherer stage.

Which also brings into focus the culpability of the (local) media in harnessing pent up frustrations and reaping the seeds of misinformation in the Gujarat, Delhi riots etc.

The fact that somebody, such as the above author, was editor of a mainstream (`secular`) Indian magazine, speaks volumes for the need seen by extreme right wing organisations, for such propaganda in India.

Which also brings into focus the culpability of the media in harnessing pent up frustrations and reaping the seeds of misinformation such as the number killed and raped in Gujarat, Delhi etc.

Dear Samosa,

DM is a scum bag like most of the p-sec, if anything hindus should hate him as 224 Hindus were killed in firing against Hindu MOBS something which even Anwara Taimu or Abdul Ghafoor dared not do when CM`s of Assam and Bihar Respectively.

Regards
Sanatani

Stukaji,

surprisingly for once despite the idiot you are, you are making sense. Brain transplant karaya kya?

No Regards
Sanatani

Salim ji,

In 2002 riots Muslims killed in Gujarat 790, Hindus 230 riots 454 overall (including cop firing) Muslims in Gujarat 8.06 %, Hindus including Jains 91.6%. Now compare the 2 sir and then say does Gujarat fall into the category mentioned above.

Also sir the number of Hindus killed in B`Desh in one week pales those Muslims killed in Guj in ALL OF 1992 RIOTS if objectivity is required it is from your side.

Sorry No regards for this post

Sanatani

Dear Salim Chauhan,

for somebody who has always appreciated you responses along with (Hamidm, naqshbandi, godot, romair, ahmedmadani, sameerjb) your response to gujju is really surprising. How come one of Prithviraj Chauhan`s clan can behave like this and stoop to such a level.

Please treat such people with amused condescension.

Best Regards
Sanatani