The Violent Face of South Asia

As an observer, I dont see Indias problem to be internal unrest and violence - particularly if one views how extreme the violence is in other neighboring countries - India gets all worked up on a few bombs here and there, whereas in Pakistan that is a way of life for at least 2+ decades. Sadly so, but that is the reality. Is the violence because of economic disparity? NO. In Pakistant the reasons are entirely different than the reasons in India. India has more separatism driven feuds and there origin is in economic disparity, a ruthless class structure, and strong nationalism. India will have to at some point change its geometry. Somethings got to give for India to sparkle end to end.

Couple of comments:

This first phase of economic prosperity in India has been driven by a major transition of work/jobs from the West. That happened because India was relatively peaceful, had many English speaking people and a large/aflluent expatriate footprint.

The second phase of economic prosperity will be harder, as trickle down economics wont work fast enough to make India sparkle. The sparkle phase will need government help. In that respect I agree with MVK`s conclusion.

{``Why is Gujarat prosperous? Why arc people interested in investing in Gujarat and not in Bihar, West Bengal, Madhya Pradesh or Chhatisgarh? ``}

Kamath Sahib,
I think that you have presented a very pertinent and timely issue in very comprehensive manner. I agree with you that violence is too frequent in the sub-continent. While the root cause of everything is economic, another factor contributing to this prevalence of violence is the tendency of our people to resort to collective punishment and uncontrolled rage. This has been evident in 1947 (Bengal, Punjab, and Delhi), 1960s (Jubbulpur and Ahmedabad) 1971 (East Pakistan), 1984 (Delhi), Bombay (1993), and 2002 (Gujrat). The terrorist suicidal bombings of Pakistan and Bangladesh are a relatively new phenomena and can be attributed to imported AlKayda tactics. Our indigenous folks are better known for their mass loot em, cut em, rape em, mutilate em, and burn em technique.

Gujrat is prosperous not because it is the hotbed of anti-Muslim, but rather because it is the beneficiary of huge remittances from overseas NRI Gujjus. Similarly, East Punjab, Lahore, and Karachi benefit from their exported manpower. Bihar, MP, West Bengal, and UP do not receive that much proportional income. The moral of the story is that, unless you strike it rich with oil and gas coming out of the land, or you can provide cheap and skilled manpower for technical or industrial production, you must export your people to greener pastures to gain some prosperity through osmosis.

Salim , when you only have at best half knowledge of something , better keep your mouth shut. Mr. Kamath is one of the best known journalists from India. Not a nobody like your Farzana Versey. So have some respect and dont make a display of your ignorance.

Gujarat is a highly developed China-like highly developed manufacturing based economy growing at a breackneck speed of 10% GDP growth p.a. , with huge multi-billion $ petrochemical refineries , chemical plants , ship-building , textile mills , diamond cutting etc. Gujarat has 3% of India`s population but accounts for 25% of the exports.

A single private Gujarat based company - the famous Reliance Group , is today worth $35 billion - higher than the collective net worth of all overseas Gujaratis. So much for your remittance theory.

Remittance based economies in India are states like Bihar and Kerala - which dont have much going for them.

The opportunity to read Sri M.V. Kamath here was a most pleasant surprise. I was forced to take a tripple take to ascertain whether it indeed was ``the very same`` M.V. Kamath.

It`s unfathomable what MVK can gain by visiting or interacting on Chowk. But if he does us the honor, it would be a delightful privilege to say, ``Welcome, Sir.``

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Salim, hope you will consider the context of Ranger`s remonstration. Obviously, he respects Mr. Kamath as much as I do. :)

MVK is a legendary journalist and right-wing commentator, whose writings have influenced many minds, including, for whatever it is worth, mine own. The right-wing tag should explain why he may not be so well known outside of India as he is inside. But he is the kind of thinker who will bring sense and honor to any wing - right, left, or center.

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Ranger, salim is a symapthetic brother, but you will have to let people freely comment. After all, chowk has some pretty far out leftist extremists, even certifiable lunatics. Also, it is under Farzana`s watch that we got to read MVK here.

Kaal...Salim is a friend , great guy and all that...only - sometimes gets carried away and talks too much without thinking.

The author talks about the symptoms and not the causes. It is widely accepted now that those societies grow where the people are hard working, there is rule of law and the people are honest. The so-called Bimaru states of India, barring Rahasthan, fare worst on these three accounts. Gujarat, Punjab, Maharastra and Southern States are much much better on these accounts so they prosper while the Bimarus languish.

Any amount of investment in these states is not going to bear fruits unless the people change. The classicals are Biharis. Sit in any train with a Bihari. By the time the train reaches its destination, he must have fought with atleast four people.

Industrial capital of today does not come in charity. It has to be attracted. Barring Narinder Modi`s episode, Gujarat no doubt is the heaven (atleast in India) for setting up industries. No doubt a lot of money flows from outside into Gujarat and the Gujaratis worldwide may consume almost all of its production.

Similarly Punjab. Sikhs are the finest people to work with. They are disciplined, soft spoken and will never make unnecessary hue-and-cry.

It is rightly said :-

- If you want to stop something which is running--send a Bihari.
- If you want to start something which has stopped --send a Sikh.
- If you are lost in a far-off place and find a shop--it will be of Gujarati( or Marwari.).

Ultimately, it is the people who are the final arbiters of their destiny. What the people of Bimaru states require is not sympathy but a big stick.. and that too a hard one.

I don`t see why one should apply a label to HV Kamath! He is pointing out to a terrible problem that exists in the society. It is independent of one`s philosophy of life or political ideology.

There is indeed a terrible degradation of ethical and moral values in the daily practice of people in the Indian society. This has pervaded the entire society. You will find it. Just read in any newspaper about the crime and corruption with open eyes. No amount of rise insales figures, percentage growth of GDP or Car sales, pornographic filth can oof-set the rising rot in the society.

You are absolutely right in your observation Kamath Mam! Your courage and ideas certainly will influence many newer and younger people. The flame must be kept burning.

Kamath

Kamath Saheb:

Welcome to chowk. I must be one of the few Indian chowkies who had not heard about you before; so I am a bit surprised to see the ``right wing`` tag put on you. You have correctly diagnosed that the problem of Naxalites is not a simple law and order problem (that would be truly right-wing!) but a socio-economic problem. For example, the Naxalites grew in Bihar because of the opression of the lower castes by the upper castes.

No entrepreneur would want to set up even a grocery store in a place where there is no law and order. So, the first thing that any regime who has to do is to provide safety and security for people and property; at the same time, benefits of capitalism trickle down at a slow pace which would be unacceptable in a democracy where the majority consists of poor people. So, while the governments should provide all the freedom for entrepreneurs to succeed, it also has a responsiblity to ameliorate the lot of those left behind by the Darwinian capitalism, if the society is to make economic progress and remain democratic.

#6 ,

Narendra Modi is the reason Gujarat is a heaven for industries. He is the most pro-industry , pro-free trade chief minister in history of India.

formation of zarkhand, uttaranchal, and chattisgarh were good steps taken by Advani in addressing some of the issues raised here. as a result, chattisgarh had a tribal as a CM which would not have been possible in a state which spend most of the resources to make bhopal look pretty.

now a gorkhaland with siliguri as a capital would help.

#3, Ranger {``#3 Salim , when you only have at best half knowledge of something , better keep your mouth shut. Mr. Kamath is one of the best known journalists from India. Not a nobody like your Farzana Versey. So have some respect and dont make a display of your ignorance.

Gujarat is a highly developed China-like highly developed manufacturing based economy ... ``}

Gujju,
Don`t get so angry young man - excessive anger may shorten your penis down to zilch. :)
I don`t think that I disrespected Mr. Kamath in any way. Frankly, I have never heard of the gentleman, as I have not heard about most human beings residing on this lovely planet. Right, left, or center doesn`t matter to me, I just offered my free comments based on what I read on this board. If you want to shut me up, you will need to grow an extra pair because better folks than you have tried and failed. Anyway, I reserve the right to offer my opinions and will overlook this uncharacteristic outburst from you. :)

Your nonsensical remark about Farzana was both needless and childish - ``my mom`s better than your mom.`` Gujju, if you can display your hormones, don`t you think I should be able to display my limited ignorance?

I did not know that Gujratis are evolving into Chinese. Knee How Man. :)

kaal bhai #4 {``Salim, hope you will consider the context of Ranger`s remonstration. Obviously, he respects Mr. Kamath as much as I do. :) ``}

Kaal Bhai,
No problem. Even though I don`t know Mr. Kamath and have never heard of him, I don`t think that I disrespected him in any way. Please read my post #2 and tell me where you see any iota of disrispect.

Judging from Gujju`s rather emotional and jingoistic reaction to a minor point about remittances, I can see how people get turned off by fanatics and their insistence that everyone see everything the way they do. :) I guess Jihadis are not all that alone.
Peace.

Mr. Kamath

You write:

“In all of South Asia there is violence of an extremely high order.”

“jihadis in Pakistan are creating havoc”

“the Maoists are creating havoc”

“Hindus are being pushed out...with utter ruthlessness.”

“The order of the day is: Kill.”

One cannot help but infer you are implying that, other than Hindus, all others are violent, that the Hindus are not only not involve in violence but also the victim of it. Can you support and verify if that’s true? [And, please, don`t use the argument that the Hindus are only ``reacting.``]

Re: # 4

I know M V Kamath is a well-known journalist (I think he retired a long time ago and for a while applauded BJP too) that doesn`t mean everyone has to agree to his views.

For instance I disagree with his generalization that cause of violence everywhere is skewed distribution of wealth. A lot of violence is due to redrawing of caste equations particularly in area what is called Hindi belt. Nobody gives up power easily and those entrenched for centuries will hardly surrender it without violence. Southern states too had their share of caste violence but now the caste equations are more or less stabilized in south.

And by the way Naxalite movement was put down by Sidhartha Shankar Ray of Congress and not CPM.

``He is known to hold right-wing views. ``
this editorial comment is strange.
should we also have a comment for the editor ``She is known to hold communal views``?

Mr. Kamath,
In my message #2, I agreed with you about the prevalence of violence all over South Asia. You mentioned violence in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bihar, West Bengal, MP, and Jharkand. Last I checked, Gujarat was part of both India and South Asia. Your objectivity is not very reassuring when you mention all kinds of violence, but ignore the horrific violence in Gujarat (2002), and for that matter Bombay (1993). I risk the wrath of your unquestioning supporters on Chowk, but I have this passion for accuracy and thoroughness.
Thanks for an otherwise informative article.