An Empire in the Making

Re: # 64 ahmadzai:

I disagree with this notion that [The attacks had no blessing of Sunni population.] How can this be authenticated? If the Sunni population (or for that matter a Shia population, or a Palestinian population) remains silent then of course they have to accept the responsibilty of the action. This is guilt by association.

Respectfully submitted,

#71, #70 malik99:

[Persians... have had far superior cultural strengths than Arabs or Indians.] In your hypothesis, are you suggesting that Arabs and the Indians would be engulfed by the Persian culture?

[And two civilizations are likely to be at the core of it - the Sinos and the Persians.] If Persian culture takes over Arab culture then where does it leave Islam?

Not to be facetious about your post, but Iran does not have any of the ingrediants to lead a civilization. As a bonafide Iranian Zathushti, I have always seen the greatness of yester years in our culture, but not about how the future looks like.

[The influence of this civilization far exceeds its current boundaries.] In the last 27 years or so, Iranians have become trouble makers, and that is not influence. They have developed a limited view of today`s world and have constantly resisted getting involved in other than the middle east world.

Respectfully submitted,

Within Asia, there are 4 major civilizations: Indian, Sino, Persian and Arab.

If one were to rate these civlizations on the ``likelihood of dominating`` index, it is clear that Sino is most likely to be the next dominant civilization of the world - with its influence already present in most countries of the south east Asia. There are already large and very successful ethnic Chinese minorities in most of the south east Asian countries. And with China rising, this civilization will not only dominate the world with its material and military wealth, it will also export its belief system. Buddhism is likely to become the most robust religion of the world, due to the rise of China and resultant rise of its neighboring Buddhist countries.

Among the next 3 civilizations, Indian civilization faces serious odds in regards to its rise. Its influence is limited to 2 countries only - India and Nepal. It is blocked from the north and east by the powerful Sino civilization. And it faces a strong (and more diversely acceptable) Persian in the west.

Arab civilization faces huge odds as well - not the least because a significant portion of its population has been left behind in the progress that the world made in last 5 centuries. With its oil reserves dwindling, and no clear after-strategy, Arab civilization will continue to be dormant for a long time to come. It could however benefit from its proximity to its neighboring civilization - the Persians.

Persians have had far longer experience with owning a civilization and have had far superior cultural strengths than Arabs or Indians. Its historic boundaries far outstretch the peak civilizational boundaries of Arabs or Indians. At its peak, present day Pakistan roughly made the eastern most fringe of the Persian empire. Like Sino, a significant persian / shiite minority lives in most of the surrounding countries. Its faith Islam is shared by 1.2 billion people.

In short, Asia is happening. And two civilizations are likely to be at the core of it - the Sinos and the Persians.

Iran is merely the epicenter of the great Persian civilization that existed for thousands of years. The influence of this civilization far exceeds its current boundaries. Those who discuss articles like these by focusing on Iran and its current status alone, show their extreme narrow-mindedness in regards to the under-currents of history.

Ah...an article to warm the cockles of my heart!

Re: # 59

In the 1970s I was a regular at breakfast in Irani restaurants in Bombay which had just the atmosphere that was described - the spindly chairs, the small round marble-top tables, et al.. There would be akoori-on-toast in the morning and sali-boti in the eveing. The wash-basin would have signs saying ``Do not comb, Do not spit, God is Great``. The waiter would have a small towel over one shoulder, and the Proprietor would sit eagle-eyed behind a counter watching his empire.

The main reason why Irani restaurants have now disappeared is that real estate prices shot up. Iranis had sited their restaurants on the ground floors of buildings on main roads, almost always on corner plots with frontage on the main road as well as the side road. Retaliers found such locations irrestible.

Hence the ageing owner with no successor in sight, or heirs who did not want to continue this poor paying restaurant business (very likelely due to education) saw more benefit in cashing in on their strategic locations than in continuing a tradition.

They have been replaced by muriads of shops selling TVs, mobile phones, computers - the flavour of today.

Oh for a vaida-pao and double chai !

=== Interact Removed ===

There can not be empire without Emperior.

Salim:

In my earlier post, I was referring to my post at 32, not the one at 25.

Salim:

I had disagreed with your following conclusion on the basis of all the points that you had narrated in post # 9 and that I had brought in post # 25:

``I predict that Iran will either moderate its theocratic nature or even discard the religious extremism when those handicaps get in the way of progress.``

Then you had excellent points again in post # 43.

Finally, I think your post # 47 bordered on exaggeration ;-) Why?

In Pakistan it is not that all Sunnis wre carrying out suicide attacks against all Shias. There were no mob attacks on each other out in the open like we had between Muslims and Hindus in Gujrat. It was a group of extremist Sunnis that was doing so and the Government of Pakistan is on record to have initiated action against them pre 9/11, i.e. 14th August to be very precise. The attacks had no blessing of Sunni population. The fact of the matter is that Pakistan is perhaps the only Muslim country where Shia Muslims are well represented in military, Government and the establishment. Leading journalists, educators, film and TV artists are Shias. Pakistan is definitely the only Muslim country that shows TV programs where Sunni and Shia scholars sit side by side and answer calls from the audience live.

Also, in Pakistan there are inter-marriages between Sunnis and Shias (not in Pakhtoons though, this I admit).

There are two areas in Pakistan that I agree we have major problems between Sunnis and Shias. One area is Kurram agency, which is a tribal agency. There is definitely hatred between the two groups and both are Pakhtoons. Pre-Talibans, there was no problem here.

The 2nd area is Jhang district of Punjab, primarily because of extremist Maulana Jhangwi hailed from this area and this was his fort. The leading Shia family, who used to win national elections from here lost big time due to hatred against Shias here. However, their Shia cousin next door (in the adjacent district won), defeating Sunni candidate.

Another area that could be cited is Gilgit. But here the problem is between Gilgitians and migrants from the bursting at seams the NWFP. It is a socio-economic problem.

re:#55 by Salim_Chauhan
Nobody gives a rat`s A$$ about light skin in south. This is uniquely a north indian obsession.
Sridhar

re:#34 by Salim_Chauhan
(Iran is very different from the oil-dependant Arab states. They have decent levels of literacy, a very successful diaspora, and some great alternatives to oil. The theocracy and mullah rule might be among their few hurdles. The Iranians in exile, while turned off from religious extremism, are very patriotic and loyal to Persian Iran....)
Iran may be all that but at present it is headed by a nutcase who is bent upon antagonising Israel and by proxy, USA. Since he is democratically elected. one is forced to presume that is also the mood of the people there. Iran is squandering away its gas reserve as it has no serious buyer of its vast reserve (the deal with India is still on hold and may never take off). Its cladestine nuclear policy, threat to annihilate Israel are being taken seriously by both Israel and the international community. Iran was isolated before this nutcase came to power. Now it is more isolated.
I guess literacy is no substitute for common sense.
Sridhar

re:#30 by bongdongs
Correct me if i am wrong but i thought Hezbollah was involved in Lebanon terrorism whereas Hamas is the terrorist group active in Palestine. Hamas gets its backing from mainly Syria but also Iran. Here is the Hamas story.
Sridhar

Typical Neo-Con alarmism- Iran is nowhere near becomming a nuclear power, or a regional power. It is a mere pawn in the US regional game. First the US and the UK overthrew Mossadeq and brought in the Shah to power, then the Shah got too powerful so they facilitated his exit, next, mysteriously Khomeni gets rid of all the leftists, like Saddam did after the CIA facilitated his rise to power and then recently, the US send the thugs it has installed in Iraq like Chalaby the bank robber, to meet with the Iranian leaders- seems like a warm enough relationship to me, all clothed with BS slogans and rhetoric to present a differnt picture to the world. There is no Iran threat just like there is no China threat to the US, and there sure as hell isn`t any Al-Qaeda threat. All bs, to drive the US permanent war economy.