The Leveling of America

Mantolives - excuse me, but my words are my own and have nothing to do with amansandhu. i wasnt aware of this post or this board but now that i am i`d like to say that if you have something to say to me, kindly do so to me instead of ascribing my remarks to bystanders and then going to town on it. and incidentally, i dont see why you found it necessary to bring me into this but whatever your absurd motivation, i am not interested. life`s entirely too short and you... well, never mind.

Re: # 484: ``Your presence here helps Pakistanis reaffirm their identity and thank God a million times that we don`t have to go through the agony of calling someone like you a compatriot.``

The above was addressed to sadna but i would like to say to you that imo you do your country a grave disservice by making such remarks... it implies that your national identity rests on being the Anti-India and I sincerely hope that isnt true. In fact, my observation [of pakistanis other than you] has been that that is not true. however, its your country, so aap hi jaane.

I don`t ...

re:#559 by Mantolives
(#559 by Mantolives on December 20, 2005 8:24pm PT
Funny... rsridhar...

The quality of Pakistani TV dramas is well recognised... the Indian soaps by comparison are patriarchal crap.)
If it is crap, why watch Indian programs? I hear some TV serial called ``saas bhi kabhi bahu thi`` or some such nonsense is extremely popular in Pak.
Now, who is funny i wonder.
Sridhar

HP writes:

I hope some day issues on this forum (chowk) would be discussed as issues and not adversarial foreign relations.It seems to me that chowk is now taking that direction and the editors should continue to make this site unattractive for people who only promote confrontational and communal point of view.
Amen....


Chowk staff heard you... Sadna has been banned. It would be a step in the right direction if someone banned this rsridhar fellow as well.

Yes...

salim did at times bash Pakistan and you thought he was rational and reasonable.

Anyone who bashes Pakistan is rational and reasonable to rsridhar.

re:#540 by Salim_Chauhan
(Their only aim is to ensure the survival and hegemony of their only concern - the Zionist state of Israel. I am not against Jews or even Israel. I am against people manipulating wars and strife, getting innocents killed so that their own people may live better. This is selfishness at its worst..)
I used to think u are a rational, informed person. I am not so sure now.
Please learn a little about what Freidman thinks of the state of Israel vis-a-vis Palestine before passing your judgement. It saves a lot of embarassments later.
Sridhar

re:#443 by Salim_Chauhan
Your above post does not make any sense.
Friedman is an American. He may be a jew but he is an American Jew first. Also, he has in the past been extremely critical of Israeli policies, to the extend that some Israelis have actually accused him of being a jew baiter as this article would suggest.
Excerpt:
(t seems that Friedman prefers the company of Jew-baiters, whether in the oil-greased country clubs or in the oil-drenched countries where Jews are not even allowed to set foot -- unless of course they happen to be, like he, one of the lick-it-up boys who will never miss an opportunity to club an Israeli government, or the American Jews who support the Jewish State.)
Strong words from an Israeli newsmagazine!
Here is another link that tells u how critical Friedman has been of Israel.
Excerpts:
( Morton A. Klein, National President of the Zionist Organization of America, has written to the leaders of the Wiesenthal Center, urging them to reconsider their invitation to Friedman in view of Friedman`s record concerning the Holocaust. ``We cannot understand how an organization devoted to preserving the memory of the Holocaust can host a speaker who has demeaned Israel and its leaders for attempting to preserve the memory of the Holocaust,`` Klein said. ``Thomas Friedman has repeatedly misused and demeaned the memory of the Six Million.``)
Among the many reasons that Klein gives is this gem:
(Israel`s recognition of the PLO ``could also signify the first signs of recovery of the Israeli people from the trauma of the Holocaust.`` (Friedman, in the New York Times, September 10, 1993)
So, Friedman actually urged Israel to find ways to recognise the state of Palestine and give up its confrontationist attitude towards Palestinian muslims. How many muslims in Chowk know this? Did u know this?
It is futile to build a case against Friedman on the basis of his jewish extraction. He is, if any, a rational jew.
Sridhar

Funny... rsridhar...

The quality of Pakistani TV dramas is well recognised... the Indian soaps by comparison are patriarchal crap...

re: Masadi`s post
(I`m no commie but their ideas are much better for the earth than the capitalists,...)
That makes u a commie for sure.
A newsflash for you. Communism is dead in the country of its origin.
It is a dead horse now. Beating it wont make it run.
China is communist only to maintain its stranglehold on a vast and diverse nation. It fears the nation will collapse if not controlled under a centralised structure. My bet is China will slowly democratise itself.
Sridhar

re: Manto`s post
(Pakistanis hate India so much and yet Indian movies are so common in Pakistan and Pakistanis follow Indian stars and gossip... All leading Pakistani private channels... all 15 of them devote their prime time to Indian soaps and Indian programming...)
For want of anything better in Pakistan, Pakis are forced to watch Indian movies and TV programs. However, i am sure they do not turn to India for pop music. See my point?
BTW, i am told even your Army brass watches Indian movies. Does that mean they love India?
Sridhar

re: #501 by bolta_aaina
(Pakistanis are more balanced and mature than Indians--there is no doubt. Indians no doubt lack the experience of mingling with the peoples of other countries....)
Don`t know about that. It is not a sign of maturity to keep chasing shadows, spend millions of dollars trying to achieve that elusive parity with India on defense matters when the same can be spent more usefully elsewhere, putting Kashmir before everything else when it is clear as daylight that Kashmir is a stalemated issue and it is in the best interest of both nations to accept the status quo. I can go on.
It is not a sign of maturity to send jehadis across the border who kill innocent people. It is not a sign of maturity to keep blaming Indians for breakup of your country when the real cause was your own army (read Hamdur Rahman report).
I think Pakis live in another world, a world that is increasingly out of touch with reality.
Sridhar

re: For Masadi`s eyes only
Hey Masadi dude,
Looks like even you Pakis now favor Americans more than ever before. If u want to convince people that communism is a good policy, i suggest u start with your own people first.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007699
(the poll commissioned by the nonprofit organization Terror Free Tomorrow and conducted by Pakistan`s foremost pollsters ACNielsen Pakistan shows that the number of Pakistanis with a favorable opinion of the U.S. doubled to more than 46% at the end of November from 23% in May 2005. Those with very unfavorable views declined to 28% from 48% over the same period. Nor is this swing in public opinion confined to Pakistan. A similar picture is evident in Indonesia, the world`s most populous Muslim nation. Again that`s largely because of American generosity in the wake of a natural disaster. A February 2005 poll by Terror Free Tomorrow showed that 65% of Indonesians had a more favorable opinion of the U.S. as a result of American relief to the victims of last December`s tsunami. If these changes in Pakistan and Indonesia influence thinking in other countries, then we could be looking at a broader shift in public sentiment across the Muslim world.)
To the US NGOs, other agencies involved, i have this to say: a job well done.
Sridhar

re:#486 by pmishra2
Bengal is in a mess after more than 20 years of Communist rule. Kerala is better in terms of education, health care etc but the work ethics is typical of a communist state. For eg, Kerala has not taken off in IT while other 3 south indian states have.
Sridhar

re:#481 by dost-mittar
Friedman i think said Bush was wrong to have invaded Iraq on the pretext of getting rid of WMD. His point was Iraq had really no WMD worth the name and certainly not enough to threaten US interest. He did say, however (as u pointed out), it was not wrong to have ushered in democracy after ousting Saddam Hussein.
Sometimes i wonder if there was no other way to oust Saddam Hussein than by a direct invasion of Iraq. After all, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Sridhar

{The book however, does not, of-course, mention the capitalism next door in Pakistan gone wrong. If anything, Pakistan copied the American consumerist model with support from America. It suffered from perpetual brain drain and insecurity, a fall-out from the Russian invasion of Afghanistan where US used it to support the anti-Russian resistance. Today Pakistan is trying to correct a morass of mistakes, but Friedman spares only derision for the US `frontline ally.` }

Just one link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Pearl

Read it and read this BS on FP and ruminate on whys and whethers. Why should anyone bother if Pakistan`s business class is not mentioned? And whether anyone should do anything about such outdated hatred? Face it: days of Islam are over. Crusades never really stopped.

Salim_Chauhan:
i have to hand it to ya.. you play all the sides really well and your consistency at coming down on all n-th sides of an issue is kind of remarkable and well..kind of creepy but lets not dwell on it :-) ..

can you enlighten me - how many things are the contemporary Pakistanyat trying to have a go at simultaneously? i have seen a few...

1 - Secularizing Pakistan

2 - Containing India by shaming it in the name of Peace and Equality (equality, i mean no kidding).

3 - Keeping Brotherly Ties with oil sheikhs in the name of as yet pre-reformed Muslim Identity.

4 - Reforming Islam to argue for progressive pakistan. equal rights etc. (sanctioned by a New and Personalized Islam for a new Muslim Identity).

5 - To become the leader of the ``muslim world`` (is that chic for Ummah these days?) by using (196 proof) muslim-strength of Pakistan.

6 - Protecting Muslim Brothers of Palestine for secular upkeep of Pakistan

7 - Protecting Muslim brothers of Kashmir for a progressive Pakistan.

8 - A healthy apathetical attitude towards the history of Pakistan and its karnamay in the recent history for obviously in the name of future and all those things.


so how many are there and in which priority?

Thanks.