Farzana Versey December 14, 2005
#6 Posted by Ranger... on December 14, 2005 8:49:14 am
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#5 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on December 14, 2005 8:44:51 am
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#4 Posted by Ranger... on December 14, 2005 8:35:58 am
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#3 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on December 14, 2005 8:28:44 am
Farzana,
Would many Lahoris not be interested in a sting operation involving Veeresh? For example, if some news outfit taped our gourmet Ibn Batuta from Kahuta into accepting a bribe and writing an article praising the delicious food served by PIA.
Would many Lahoris not be interested in a sting operation involving Veeresh? For example, if some news outfit taped our gourmet Ibn Batuta from Kahuta into accepting a bribe and writing an article praising the delicious food served by PIA.
#2 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on December 14, 2005 8:26:03 am
Farzana, {``Would they do a sting operation on NGOs that misuse foreign funds? ...The Sting Operation has only helped make scapegoats of a few unknowns to let the real sharks behave like saints. It has in fact become part of a whitewash job.``}
I read your article with interest and came away with a mixed and puzzled reaction. While feeling somewhat sorry for the ``poor`` fools who get trapped, I support sting operations in principle. Police patrols, exposes, and omnipresent video cameras have taught people to behave properly if not sincerely then at least for fear of consequences. In the States, it has resulted in teflon-coated politicians, but does discourage blatantly dishonest, unfair, and outwardly incorrect behavior. Heck, some people have even stopped picking their noses thanks to all the video cameras. Good article, and you raise some important ethical questions. Always a pleasure to read your work.
I read your article with interest and came away with a mixed and puzzled reaction. While feeling somewhat sorry for the ``poor`` fools who get trapped, I support sting operations in principle. Police patrols, exposes, and omnipresent video cameras have taught people to behave properly if not sincerely then at least for fear of consequences. In the States, it has resulted in teflon-coated politicians, but does discourage blatantly dishonest, unfair, and outwardly incorrect behavior. Heck, some people have even stopped picking their noses thanks to all the video cameras. Good article, and you raise some important ethical questions. Always a pleasure to read your work.
#1 Posted by veeresh on December 14, 2005 1:57:07 am
Hello Ji!!
You say:- ````Sorry, I think that ‘Operation Duryodhana’ itself stinks.```` OK, that`s fine, some say it stinks and some say it stings, so I think, here is or are some facts and some reasons for why you think it stinks. But then you go and ask questions to which the answers are available, if you choose to dig a wee bit.
Now can I try to answer some of these questions, since Aniruddha Bahal is likely to be very busy?
a) ````. . .Parliament was stunned into shamed silence”. Really? ```` Yes, really. We should be grateful that we have a Parliament in the first case, and not some kangaroo or military court that stuns everybody else into shame.
b) ```` Do they feel no shame when they throw chappals and chairs at each other? ````When has this happened in the Indian Parliament, because I can find no records of chappals or chairs being thrown in Parliament House. Attack by gunmen, yes, and we all know what happened to them.
c) ````Has no ministry/government ever been shamed for taking kickbacks for giving a contract to an undeserving company? ```` Hunh? How is this relevant?
d) ````And who are those MPs who were paid Rs 15,000 to just over a lakh for asking questions? Are they important enough names? ```` Their biodatas are up all over the place and yes, in the scheme of things, some of them were well known and important. Including a few in the Defence Committee.
e) ````I can lay a bet that even if they were not bribed and were told that they would be given some media coverage, they would have still done what they did. ```` I shall take you on over that one, and with humility, you will recall that you already lost one ``Bh***ee Colony, Dadar`` and its location.
f) ````Besides, what is wrong about asking questions in Parliament?```` Well, questions do not get answered by the Government unless you want to follow the convolutions of the RTI Act. Agreed, nothing wrong in asking questions in Parliament. But bribing people to ask questions on your behalf is very wrong. So how do you ask a question in Parliament then? Ideally speaking, your elected representative should take forward your query at no cost. Many do, to be fair, at no cost to the citizens from their constituency.
g) ````What were the queries about? ```` Not really relevant, but they are up in the news items.
h) ````Is this harmful?```` Taking a bribe is.
i) ````Why do journalists and TV channels use easy targets?```` They do not, so questioin is denied, mi`lord.
j) ````Would these brave-hearts do a sting operation on industrial houses?```` YES. Start with Union Carbide, Bhopl and move from there.
````Would they do a sting operation on cultural organisations or famous ‘respectable’ artistes who get special privileges?```` OH YES, MOST RECENT WAS NAWAB of PATAUDI.
````Would they do a sting operation on nominated MPs from the ‘world of arts’ who use their position to further their personal causes? ```` YES.
````Would they do a sting operation on NGOs that misuse foreign funds? ```` YES.
````Would they do a sting operation on why and how certain states in the country have ‘cities’ owned and run by bosses of airlines and media channels? ```` WHY A STING WHEN THIS IS OUT IN THE OPEN?
````Would they do a sting operation on media houses that take money from socialites to promote themselves? ```` YES AND WE ALL KNOW HOW TOI`s RATESHEETS WERE PUBLICISED.
````Are these sting operations themselves unbiased? Who is sponsoring them? Why was there a wide gap between the MPs bribed? Who decided on how much needed to be paid to whom? Why are there six BJP MPs, three from the Bahujan Samaj Party, and only one each from the Congress and Rashtriya Janata Dal? ```` THESE STINGS WERE LITERALLY CARRIED OUT BY WALKING ON THE STREETS OUTSIDE NORTH AVENUE AND BEING CONTACTED BY MIDDLEMEN. THE NUMBER AND DISTRIBUTION OF MPs WAS BASIS THOSE WHO WERE WILLING TO ACCEPT, WITHOUT DISCRIMINATION OF ANY SORT.
````Isn`t it strange that senior politicians who have been corrupt and booked for scams are today talking about the “indefensible” acts?```` YES. IT IS STRANGE. BUT EXPECTED.
````Besides, why has it been termed ‘Operation Duryodhana’? ```` THIS IS AN ALLAHABADI THING WHICH PEOPLE FROM BOMBAY WILL NOT UNDERSTAND, WITH DUE RESPECTS.
Come on Farzana, the simple fact that this was attempted and carried out, that too by a woman operative, is reason enough for us to salute the sting. You have to be a Delhiite to understand how much courage and risk it takes to even think about doing this. Hardly a stink.
sincerely,
veeresh
You say:- ````Sorry, I think that ‘Operation Duryodhana’ itself stinks.```` OK, that`s fine, some say it stinks and some say it stings, so I think, here is or are some facts and some reasons for why you think it stinks. But then you go and ask questions to which the answers are available, if you choose to dig a wee bit.
Now can I try to answer some of these questions, since Aniruddha Bahal is likely to be very busy?
a) ````. . .Parliament was stunned into shamed silence”. Really? ```` Yes, really. We should be grateful that we have a Parliament in the first case, and not some kangaroo or military court that stuns everybody else into shame.
b) ```` Do they feel no shame when they throw chappals and chairs at each other? ````When has this happened in the Indian Parliament, because I can find no records of chappals or chairs being thrown in Parliament House. Attack by gunmen, yes, and we all know what happened to them.
c) ````Has no ministry/government ever been shamed for taking kickbacks for giving a contract to an undeserving company? ```` Hunh? How is this relevant?
d) ````And who are those MPs who were paid Rs 15,000 to just over a lakh for asking questions? Are they important enough names? ```` Their biodatas are up all over the place and yes, in the scheme of things, some of them were well known and important. Including a few in the Defence Committee.
e) ````I can lay a bet that even if they were not bribed and were told that they would be given some media coverage, they would have still done what they did. ```` I shall take you on over that one, and with humility, you will recall that you already lost one ``Bh***ee Colony, Dadar`` and its location.
f) ````Besides, what is wrong about asking questions in Parliament?```` Well, questions do not get answered by the Government unless you want to follow the convolutions of the RTI Act. Agreed, nothing wrong in asking questions in Parliament. But bribing people to ask questions on your behalf is very wrong. So how do you ask a question in Parliament then? Ideally speaking, your elected representative should take forward your query at no cost. Many do, to be fair, at no cost to the citizens from their constituency.
g) ````What were the queries about? ```` Not really relevant, but they are up in the news items.
h) ````Is this harmful?```` Taking a bribe is.
i) ````Why do journalists and TV channels use easy targets?```` They do not, so questioin is denied, mi`lord.
j) ````Would these brave-hearts do a sting operation on industrial houses?```` YES. Start with Union Carbide, Bhopl and move from there.
````Would they do a sting operation on cultural organisations or famous ‘respectable’ artistes who get special privileges?```` OH YES, MOST RECENT WAS NAWAB of PATAUDI.
````Would they do a sting operation on nominated MPs from the ‘world of arts’ who use their position to further their personal causes? ```` YES.
````Would they do a sting operation on NGOs that misuse foreign funds? ```` YES.
````Would they do a sting operation on why and how certain states in the country have ‘cities’ owned and run by bosses of airlines and media channels? ```` WHY A STING WHEN THIS IS OUT IN THE OPEN?
````Would they do a sting operation on media houses that take money from socialites to promote themselves? ```` YES AND WE ALL KNOW HOW TOI`s RATESHEETS WERE PUBLICISED.
````Are these sting operations themselves unbiased? Who is sponsoring them? Why was there a wide gap between the MPs bribed? Who decided on how much needed to be paid to whom? Why are there six BJP MPs, three from the Bahujan Samaj Party, and only one each from the Congress and Rashtriya Janata Dal? ```` THESE STINGS WERE LITERALLY CARRIED OUT BY WALKING ON THE STREETS OUTSIDE NORTH AVENUE AND BEING CONTACTED BY MIDDLEMEN. THE NUMBER AND DISTRIBUTION OF MPs WAS BASIS THOSE WHO WERE WILLING TO ACCEPT, WITHOUT DISCRIMINATION OF ANY SORT.
````Isn`t it strange that senior politicians who have been corrupt and booked for scams are today talking about the “indefensible” acts?```` YES. IT IS STRANGE. BUT EXPECTED.
````Besides, why has it been termed ‘Operation Duryodhana’? ```` THIS IS AN ALLAHABADI THING WHICH PEOPLE FROM BOMBAY WILL NOT UNDERSTAND, WITH DUE RESPECTS.
Come on Farzana, the simple fact that this was attempted and carried out, that too by a woman operative, is reason enough for us to salute the sting. You have to be a Delhiite to understand how much courage and risk it takes to even think about doing this. Hardly a stink.
sincerely,
veeresh
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