Nowhere: The Utopian Destination

babus #58, {``It is amazing thousands of Western tourists visit a failed state like Sri Lanka without getting harmed. They get more tourists on a per captia basis than any other South Asian state.

It looks to me that there are different kinds of failures. Maybe some failures are more harmful than others. ``}

Bbabu,
happy new year, friend. Thanks for correcting my sweeping statement. You have a very good point, and I happen to agree with what you said. :)

#60 yes, that is my normal reaction.. i know very well how child-marriages happen and a typical bride is essentially a slave to husband and his family. you have your assumptions, i am giving a perspective you did not think of, its that simple.

Before this board moves down, I must make a couple of comments:

#57: Is such insensitivity your normal reaction? How do you assume that getting to see Dilli and being in a TV studio was not akin to slavery for her? And why do you assuem she lived a life fo slavery earlier? She was happy with her second husband whose child she was pregnant with till her first one returned after being presumed dead; she resisted going back to him and expressed her worries about being separated from her child. She sounded like very much her own person. Till the TV cameras and the maulvi panchayat intervened.

Re. we ALL being guilty of using her, if your ishaara is towards this writer, then I must say that we can then be accused of using everything. It is how we use it and to what end. I gave the link to my article precisely to point that out.
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#59 by ahmadzai:

I would love to visit Kabul...
I avoid Lahore vs Indian Punjab refs because I have never been to Indian Punjab.

Of course, Utopia is a relative term. And if I recall the quote is ``nostalgia is not what it used to be``.

Dekhte hai naya saal kitna mubarak hota hai...naya hai...yeh hi kaafi hai. Wishes to you too.

Farzana Versey at # 45:

I did not know that my innocent post that I posted keeping your following 5 questions in view will arouse so much interest:

Must a Utopia work as a definite goal to be achieved?
Are political Utopias possible?
Are real Utopias then based on the principle of equality?
Is Materialism anti-Utopia?
What is the role of the individual in influencing Utopia?

Since I will not like to argue for the sake of argument, I will just ask you when are you going to Kabul or Qandahar? :-)

Also the `ishaara kinayaa` of the inhabitant of a smaller province of Pakistan behind the statement `Lahore of course has no match in Indian Punjab` escaped your attention.

However, I would like to point out that Utopia is a relative term. Utopia of a Pakistani is defferent from Utopia of an American. Also, Utopia of the future would be different from that of the past. But someone has rightly said, ``future isn`t what it used to be`.

Finally, `dair ayed dooroost ayed kay mutabiq, aapko nia saal mubarak ho`. I will look forward to reading more of your articles during this year.

Salim_Chauhan #36

`` Many people want to refer to states that they dislike as ``failed states.`` In my opinion, there are certain criteria that define a failed state. Just like life, failed states are not black and white. This failure can be temporary, ongoing, and sometimes long-term, even permanent if not fatal. Also, one person`s failed state is another`s utopia. When you don`t get a raise, it`s a bad economy, when your neighbor loses his job, it`s a recession, when you lose your job, it`s a depression. Let me define a ``failed state,`` and then give some examples. ``

I would not say it. If you are a telegraph department worker in India you have no future. Who uses telegraphs ? That does not mean the telecom sector in India has failed. On the contary it is booming.

`` To me a ``failed state`` is one that fails to deliver its basic obligation of protecting the lives, property, and liberties of its citizens. That failure is reinforced when it can`t or won`t stop harm happening to a substantial element or group (minority or majority) within its domain. When the state itself inflicts the harm, then we have no doubt about the failure. While most states fail because of a breakdown in law and order, failure can also be attributed to financial bankruptcy, massive insurrection, natural disasters, or even war. Some examples: ``

It is possible the failures maybe permanent. They could be one-time occurences. They could not transient phenomenon. Bhiwandi had a very bad communal riot in the 1980s. There has been no riots after that. It would be unfair to claim Bhiwandi is a failed town. In fact it has rebounded well. Probably most people with memories of the riots are dead. Otherwise any place with a history of killings is a failed one.

`` Afghanistan, Cambodia, Somalia, Sierra Leone are some recent examples of confirmed failed states.
Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan (during 1971 East Pakistan calamity), Yemen, Sri Lanka are examples of states failing due to civil strife.
India (during 1984 Delhi, 2002 Gujarat), Pakistan (during 1986 and 1989-1992 Karachi, 2005 Baluchistan, 2003 NWFP), Iraq (1991) are examples of uncontrolled violence aided by the government in power. To the Sikhs in 1984, Muslims in 2002, and Mohajirs in 1986 and 1990 their respective countries must have definitely felt like failed states.
Pakistan 1999 and several Latin American countries in the 1970s were almot failed states due to financial bankruptcy.
Miyanmar (Burma) and Zimbabwe are fast approaching the real failed state category. ``

It is amazing thousands of Western tourists visit a failed state like Sri Lanka without getting harmed. They get more tourists on a per captia basis than any other South Asian state.

It looks to me that there are different kinds of failures. Maybe some failures are more harmful than others.

#55 yes...we ALL have been guilty of using her. but i feel she had a ride of a life. she was a celebrity, got to see dilli, eat nice, stay in a nice hotel on TV studio dime..not bad. the alternative life was that of typical slavery.

Millions of dolls die of septicaemia annually in Pakistan. No body cares.

I know this is not relevant to the article...but it is not entirely irrelevant to something that we should be thinking about. Gudiya died of septicaemia. She was 26. A simple village girl who was used by the media. Did they keep track of her life? Did they care to see how she was faring?

A sad end to a sad life: The Doll`s House

FV,
very interesting, but I think that you are taking on too much in a single writing.

Very Utopian...

Ras

Farzana: still batting for laloo and the RJD?

Shahabuddin charged with sedition

January 02, 2006 22:58 IST

In a major blow to controversial Rashtriya Janata Dal member of Parliament Mohammed Shahabuddin, the Siwan police Monday filed separate chargesheets against him in four cases, including one of sedition, on the basis of the probe in cases relating to recovery of foreign-made firearms and bullets bearing the mark of a Pakistan ordnance factory during the April 2005 raids at his Pratappur house.

Four separate chargesheets in as many cases were filed in the court of Siwan Chief Judicial Magistrate A K Barial.

[Freud never talked about such utopia. Such quasi-religious theorizing was anathema to him.]

So? What did I write? That… “Even a perfect psychological state can be counterproductive because it has to work within a certain social milieu. A community realising itself goes against the very idea of the ego, which is a Freudian Utopia.”

I am in fact stating that individualism (the ego, as in ‘I’) would rebel at community realisation. A community need not be a religious one.

Re. religious theorizing, Freud wrote 3 books on the subject. To quote him, “[Religion] must exorcise the terrors of nature, [Religion] must reconcile men to the cruelty of fate, particularly as it is shown in death, and [Religion] must compensate them for the sufferings which a civilised life in common has imposed on them.”

[You are writing ``ego`` with small ``e``. Freud nevere talked about it.]

Perhaps just a tendency to be self-effacing! (Many commentators do use the small ‘e’…)

[The ``Ego`` with big ``E`` he talked about dealt with tendency of every individual to get trained and come into contact with reality and learn to handle it. Ego becomes part of reality handling tendency, and Super-Ego becomes received knowledge mostly about culture.]

Reality handling also includes dissemination of the intellect and psychological introspection. As you know, the ego mediates between instinct (id) and received knowledge (super-ego). Incidentally, it is more than received knowledge…it is realised knowledge. In ‘Civilization and Its Discontents’, Freud talks about the unity of mankind and deals with it directly as a result of the creation of laws as a result of bonding. This brings us back to reality handling –the ego, or Ego.

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And to those who did not get the implication of the Lewis Carroll quote the first time…here it is with emphasis…

`But I don’t want to go among mad people,` Alice remarked.

`Oh, you can’t help that,` said the Cat. `We’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.`

`How do you know I’m mad?` said Alice.

`You must be,” said the Cat. `or you wouldn’t have come here.`”

{Even a perfect psychological state can be counterproductive because it has to work within a certain social milieu. A community realising itself goes against the very idea of the ego, which is a Freudian Utopia. }

Freud never talked about such utopia. Such quasi-religious theorizing was anathema to him. You are writing ``ego`` with small ``e``. Freud nevere talked about it. The ``Ego`` with big ``E`` he talked about dealt with tendency of every individual to get trained and come into contact with reality and learn to handle it. Ego becomes part of reality handling tendency, and Super-Ego becomes received knowledge mostly about culture.

{If India were a utopian secular state then why were not the Indian Muslims able to develop their cities like Lucknow, Meerith, Ajmer Sharif, etc. With the city`s administration back in hands where it belongs, it is just a matter of time before the city will show exemplery progress once again. }

Read about Lucknow in this: http://www.censusindia.net/results/slum1_m_plus.html

``In case of Lucknow M.C. no slum population has been reported by the Mahanagar Adhikari (MNA) - the highest executive authority of the corporation. This claim is being scrutinized by the Census authorities. ``

May Allah save cities of India from city administrations such as Lucknow`s. Apparently there are no slums in Lucknow! Looks like the Mahanagar Adhikari (MNA) - the highest executive authority of Lucknow corporation is already living with Alice!!

{And am I glad! }

You should provide a link which I can click to make you go in the company of fictional Alice. I would be more happy clicking to make you disappear there. Chowk would be much better place. But now I am dreaming of an Utopia.

Happy 2006 to all living.

When Pakis say ,``Pakistan is the most livable country.`` Of course, they are in complete Utopia. But, Utopia is excellent for your mental health. At least, it saves you from becoming homicidal or suicidal out of frustration, when you are unable to face reality, when you are unable to treat your blind eye for loss of complete vision.

So, from now on I am calling all Pakis UTOPIANS with respect. Living in an Islamic state of Pak.....errrrrr, no, Islamic state of Utopia. Now, please, make correction, it is not state of mind type of thing, it is state of Utopia(formerly called state of Pakistan).

#43 by ahmadzai

Pakistan delivered a lot indeed. Especially it delivered a whole new country called Bangladesh on express delivery.