Nowhere: The Utopian Destination

babus #58, {``It is amazing thousands of Western tourists visit a failed state like Sri Lanka without getting harmed. They get more tourists on a per captia basis than any other South Asian state.

It looks to me that there are different kinds of failures. Maybe some failures are more harmful than others. ``}

Bbabu,
happy new year, friend. Thanks for correcting my sweeping statement. You have a very good point, and I happen to agree with what you said. :)

#60 yes, that is my normal reaction.. i know very well how child-marriages happen and a typical bride is essentially a slave to husband and his family. you have your assumptions, i am giving a perspective you did not think of, its that simple.

Before this board moves down, I must make a couple of comments:

#57: Is such insensitivity your normal reaction? How do you assume that getting to see Dilli and being in a TV studio was not akin to slavery for her? And why do you assuem she lived a life fo slavery earlier? She was happy with her second husband whose child she was pregnant with till her first one returned after being presumed dead; she resisted going back to him and expressed her worries about being separated from her child. She sounded like very much her own person. Till the TV cameras and the maulvi panchayat intervened.

Re. we ALL being guilty of using her, if your ishaara is towards this writer, then I must say that we can then be accused of using everything. It is how we use it and to what end. I gave the link to my article precisely to point that out.
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#59 by ahmadzai:

I would love to visit Kabul...
I avoid Lahore vs Indian Punjab refs because I have never been to Indian Punjab.

Of course, Utopia is a relative term. And if I recall the quote is ``nostalgia is not what it used to be``.

Dekhte hai naya saal kitna mubarak hota hai...naya hai...yeh hi kaafi hai. Wishes to you too.

Farzana Versey at # 45:

I did not know that my innocent post that I posted keeping your following 5 questions in view will arouse so much interest:

Must a Utopia work as a definite goal to be achieved?
Are political Utopias possible?
Are real Utopias then based on the principle of equality?
Is Materialism anti-Utopia?
What is the role of the individual in influencing Utopia?

Since I will not like to argue for the sake of argument, I will just ask you when are you going to Kabul or Qandahar? :-)

Also the `ishaara kinayaa` of the inhabitant of a smaller province of Pakistan behind the statement `Lahore of course has no match in Indian Punjab` escaped your attention.

However, I would like to point out that Utopia is a relative term. Utopia of a Pakistani is defferent from Utopia of an American. Also, Utopia of the future would be different from that of the past. But someone has rightly said, ``future isn`t what it used to be`.

Finally, `dair ayed dooroost ayed kay mutabiq, aapko nia saal mubarak ho`. I will look forward to reading more of your articles during this year.

Salim_Chauhan #36

`` Many people want to refer to states that they dislike as ``failed states.`` In my opinion, there are certain criteria that define a failed state. Just like life, failed states are not black and white. This failure can be temporary, ongoing, and sometimes long-term, even permanent if not fatal. Also, one person`s failed state is another`s utopia. When you don`t get a raise, it`s a bad economy, when your neighbor loses his job, it`s a recession, when you lose your job, it`s a depression. Let me define a ``failed state,`` and then give some examples. ``

I would not say it. If you are a telegraph department worker in India you have no future. Who uses telegraphs ? That does not mean the telecom sector in India has failed. On the contary it is booming.

`` To me a ``failed state`` is one that fails to deliver its basic obligation of protecting the lives, property, and liberties of its citizens. That failure is reinforced when it can`t or won`t stop harm happening to a substantial element or group (minority or majority) within its domain. When the state itself inflicts the harm, then we have no doubt about the failure. While most states fail because of a breakdown in law and order, failure can also be attributed to financial bankruptcy, massive insurrection, natural disasters, or even war. Some examples: ``

It is possible the failures maybe permanent. They could be one-time occurences. They could not transient phenomenon. Bhiwandi had a very bad communal riot in the 1980s. There has been no riots after that. It would be unfair to claim Bhiwandi is a failed town. In fact it has rebounded well. Probably most people with memories of the riots are dead. Otherwise any place with a history of killings is a failed one.

`` Afghanistan, Cambodia, Somalia, Sierra Leone are some recent examples of confirmed failed states.
Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan (during 1971 East Pakistan calamity), Yemen, Sri Lanka are examples of states failing due to civil strife.
India (during 1984 Delhi, 2002 Gujarat), Pakistan (during 1986 and 1989-1992 Karachi, 2005 Baluchistan, 2003 NWFP), Iraq (1991) are examples of uncontrolled violence aided by the government in power. To the Sikhs in 1984, Muslims in 2002, and Mohajirs in 1986 and 1990 their respective countries must have definitely felt like failed states.
Pakistan 1999 and several Latin American countries in the 1970s were almot failed states due to financial bankruptcy.
Miyanmar (Burma) and Zimbabwe are fast approaching the real failed state category. ``

It is amazing thousands of Western tourists visit a failed state like Sri Lanka without getting harmed. They get more tourists on a per captia basis than any other South Asian state.

It looks to me that there are different kinds of failures. Maybe some failures are more harmful than others.

#55 yes...we ALL have been guilty of using her. but i feel she had a ride of a life. she was a celebrity, got to see dilli, eat nice, stay in a nice hotel on TV studio dime..not bad. the alternative life was that of typical slavery.

Millions of dolls die of septicaemia annually in Pakistan. No body cares.

I know this is not relevant to the article...but it is not entirely irrelevant to something that we should be thinking about. Gudiya died of septicaemia. She was 26. A simple village girl who was used by the media. Did they keep track of her life? Did they care to see how she was faring?

A sad end to a sad life: The Doll`s House

FV,
very interesting, but I think that you are taking on too much in a single writing.

Very Utopian...

Ras

Farzana: still batting for laloo and the RJD?

Shahabuddin charged with sedition

January 02, 2006 22:58 IST

In a major blow to controversial Rashtriya Janata Dal member of Parliament Mohammed Shahabuddin, the Siwan police Monday filed separate chargesheets against him in four cases, including one of sedition, on the basis of the probe in cases relating to recovery of foreign-made firearms and bullets bearing the mark of a Pakistan ordnance factory during the April 2005 raids at his Pratappur house.

Four separate chargesheets in as many cases were filed in the court of Siwan Chief Judicial Magistrate A K Barial.

[Freud never talked about such utopia. Such quasi-religious theorizing was anathema to him.]

So? What did I write? That… “Even a perfect psychological state can be counterproductive because it has to work within a certain social milieu. A community realising itself goes against the very idea of the ego, which is a Freudian Utopia.”

I am in fact stating that individualism (the ego, as in ‘I’) would rebel at community realisation. A community need not be a religious one.

Re. religious theorizing, Freud wrote 3 books on the subject. To quote him, “[Religion] must exorcise the terrors of nature, [Religion] must reconcile men to the cruelty of fate, particularly as it is shown in death, and [Religion] must compensate them for the sufferings which a civilised life in common has imposed on them.”

[You are writing ``ego`` with small ``e``. Freud nevere talked about it.]

Perhaps just a tendency to be self-effacing! (Many commentators do use the small ‘e’…)

[The ``Ego`` with big ``E`` he talked about dealt with tendency of every individual to get trained and come into contact with reality and learn to handle it. Ego becomes part of reality handling tendency, and Super-Ego becomes received knowledge mostly about culture.]

Reality handling also includes dissemination of the intellect and psychological introspection. As you know, the ego mediates between instinct (id) and received knowledge (super-ego). Incidentally, it is more than received knowledge…it is realised knowledge. In ‘Civilization and Its Discontents’, Freud talks about the unity of mankind and deals with it directly as a result of the creation of laws as a result of bonding. This brings us back to reality handling –the ego, or Ego.

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And to those who did not get the implication of the Lewis Carroll quote the first time…here it is with emphasis…

`But I don’t want to go among mad people,` Alice remarked.

`Oh, you can’t help that,` said the Cat. `We’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.`

`How do you know I’m mad?` said Alice.

`You must be,” said the Cat. `or you wouldn’t have come here.`”

{Even a perfect psychological state can be counterproductive because it has to work within a certain social milieu. A community realising itself goes against the very idea of the ego, which is a Freudian Utopia. }

Freud never talked about such utopia. Such quasi-religious theorizing was anathema to him. You are writing ``ego`` with small ``e``. Freud nevere talked about it. The ``Ego`` with big ``E`` he talked about dealt with tendency of every individual to get trained and come into contact with reality and learn to handle it. Ego becomes part of reality handling tendency, and Super-Ego becomes received knowledge mostly about culture.

{If India were a utopian secular state then why were not the Indian Muslims able to develop their cities like Lucknow, Meerith, Ajmer Sharif, etc. With the city`s administration back in hands where it belongs, it is just a matter of time before the city will show exemplery progress once again. }

Read about Lucknow in this: http://www.censusindia.net/results/slum1_m_plus.html

``In case of Lucknow M.C. no slum population has been reported by the Mahanagar Adhikari (MNA) - the highest executive authority of the corporation. This claim is being scrutinized by the Census authorities. ``

May Allah save cities of India from city administrations such as Lucknow`s. Apparently there are no slums in Lucknow! Looks like the Mahanagar Adhikari (MNA) - the highest executive authority of Lucknow corporation is already living with Alice!!

{And am I glad! }

You should provide a link which I can click to make you go in the company of fictional Alice. I would be more happy clicking to make you disappear there. Chowk would be much better place. But now I am dreaming of an Utopia.

Happy 2006 to all living.

When Pakis say ,``Pakistan is the most livable country.`` Of course, they are in complete Utopia. But, Utopia is excellent for your mental health. At least, it saves you from becoming homicidal or suicidal out of frustration, when you are unable to face reality, when you are unable to treat your blind eye for loss of complete vision.

So, from now on I am calling all Pakis UTOPIANS with respect. Living in an Islamic state of Pak.....errrrrr, no, Islamic state of Utopia. Now, please, make correction, it is not state of mind type of thing, it is state of Utopia(formerly called state of Pakistan).

#43 by ahmadzai

Pakistan delivered a lot indeed. Especially it delivered a whole new country called Bangladesh on express delivery.

ahmedzai/43 says ``4. Lahore of course has no match in Indian Punjab. ``

Really?

Please let us know on what parameters you base this conjecture or theory or whatever.

#43:

You are entitled to your utopian views (contradicting what you say about Pakistan delivering for the Muslims of the Asian sub-con would mean going against the gist of my article, which you say you did not understand!)

However, I need to question a couple of your other assertions...

1. In India we do not have ``Indian Muslim cities``, so the question of developing them along communal lines does not arise. Even Ajmer Sharif has a dargah, but in no way is it a Muslim city.

Re. Karachi being the fastest metro after the 40s, how fast is fast? And what are you comparing it with -- Kabul or Kolkata?

2. I have no idea why you are comparing cities in Pakistan with those of other countries. I have been to peshawar and I like it for reasons that I cannot describe here, but on what grounds can you call it a success? What is the ``splendor of Dera Ismail Khan, Mardan, Nowshera, Kohat, Hazara`` about? The last time I was at Dera I managed to buy smuggled perfume (just for kicks). Btw, Afghan rugs sell...is there something like Peshawari carpets?

Utopia does not mean turning a blind eye.
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#40, 41, 42 cannot be commented on lest it be deemed not relevant to the article. Irreverence (in context) is always welcome!

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Gill saab:

Aapko bhi naya saal mubarak ho...kaash yeh sirf rasm nahi hota...

I suppose this is infectious...so best wishes to everyone. May we all follow guidelines, smile when we are filtered out and learn to have a civil dialogue even as we grit our teeth!

To all Chowkies:

Haiy tau yeh rasm-e-zamanah, lekan phir bhi
Ho mubarak tumhain yeh saal nya, meray rafiq

Happy New Year

Mohammad Gill

This is a very strange article. I could not get the gist of the article. However, I can say with conviction that Pakistan delivered for the Muslims of Asian sub-continent. Pakistanis of all ethnic origins can safely claim that Pakistan provided them an environment to make their centres of power utopian in Asian subcontinent.

1. The residents of Sindh made Karachi the fastest metropolitan city developed after 1940s. If India were a utopian secular state then why were not the Indian Muslims able to develop their cities like Lucknow, Meerith, Ajmer Sharif, etc. With the city`s administration back in hands where it belongs, it is just a matter of time before the city will show exemplery progress once again.

2. Pakistani Pakhtoons are better off than Afghan Pakhtoons. Peshawar is an example of success. There is no city in Afghanistan which could match the spelndor of Peshawar. Some of my cousins who sing the praises of Afghanistan and dream of making Pakhtoonistan are left speechless when this example is given. Not only this, but Afghanistan failed to develop any city that could match the splendor of Dera Ismail Khan, Mardan, Nowshera, Kohat, Hazara, etc.

3. Quetta is a better city than any other city in Iranian Balochistan.

4. Lahore of course has no match in Indian Punjab.

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#39 this is moving the goal post as we say in the codified western sports lingo ;-)
you were critical of the western system while prsising the estern. the mush was not scared of the eastern sysetm..he was frothing because he was scared of bad press, that simple. bad press in WASHINGTON. Strong ctitical press itself is a pillar of western system. so curb your urge to whitewash..are you on a lifafa or is it just the normal feeling of brotherhood?

anyhoo, i too agree with 99% of what you say . (delete salims #40, its irrelevent)

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Since this article is most certainly not about the recent rediscovery of the remains of the Gujarat riots (a footnote makes a reference), I shall not get into that discussion…

When I said, “Pakistan is a failed state. So is India” I added immediately, “They are also both ideal states, actors in search of a character.”
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#15 by Mantolives

[all we need to do in Pakistan is follow that constitution... and not try and follow any utopias...]

Most Constitutions give you certain rights on paper alone. Besides, they are legalistic, not idealistic. E.g. you may have the right to vote, but the agendas are laid down for you in terms of party manifestos. Do you agree with all of these?

[Whatever real or imagined `ideological` aspirations for Pakistan... this ``free exercise of religion`` is central to any modern nation state...]

I would go even further and say that it does not have to be put in so many words, for who is anyone to tell us about a free exercise? Isn’t religion about belief? Does anyone tell us to believe in family values or humanity?

And who defines ‘modern’? What would be the yardstick?
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#17 by Saminasha

[{``Utopia would require a man with clear sight to enter a dark cellar with a torch, find a black cat and proceed to paint it white.``}

Can someone explain what this sentence means?]

If you take it in conjunction with what preceded it, it might not be difficult to understand…

{{There is the story of the philosopher William James being teased by a theologian friend thus, “A philosopher is like a blind man in a dark cellar looking for a black cat that isn’t there.”

“Yes,” replied James. “And the difference between theology and philosophy is that theology finds the cat.”

These two are essentially negative ideas.

In a Utopian world a not-blind man would fortify himself with a torch in a dark cellar where he will find a cat (ideology) and paint it white (see things the way he wishes to…a perfect state?)

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#34 by jang
[i bet eighty rupees that Muk-Mai would not be a hero without the codified west. left to the horribly suffocatingly rigid protocol of the sub-continent, m-mai would become a servant in her rapist house, tending to his cows and sugarcanes. the dictator only seems to be scared of washington post, and not some dynamic-protocol-less mileu... :-( ]

If she is a hero as per Western standards, then she is a codified hero. How many women in the West who speak out against rape become heroes?

The fact the Mukhtaran Mai got the President of her country to ‘take action’ and start frothing at the mouth means that her impact was felt. And her plans for a school were before the West gave her a second look.

Let us not completely ignore the fact that the natives in our lands do have the fight left in them.
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#35 by drlokraj:

[you have labelled almost every alternative as utopia.
What alternative do you suggest??]

I do believe that alternatives are utopian. Anything that becomes stratified starts to stagnate. So, I suggest that every alternative too must have an alternative…
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#36 by Salim_Chauhan

[Also, one person`s failed state is another`s utopia. When you don`t get a raise, it`s a bad economy, when your neighbor loses his job, it`s a recession, when you lose your job, it`s a depression…]

Extremely well said. A cogent post, indeed.

Re. your last post making a reference to my earlier article, it is perfectly fine to be critical, just mind your language. It just does not add any value to what is sought to be communicated.
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And finally…

[You are an unhinged psychotic. That is all one can say of this article. It is a product of a raving mad person.]

And am I glad!

`But I don’t want to go among mad people,` Alice remarked.

`Oh, you can’t help that,` said the Cat. `We’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.`

`How do you know I’m mad?` said Alice.

`You must be,” said the Cat. `or you wouldn’t have come here.`”
(Lewis Carroll)

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Farzana, {Pakistan is a failed state. So is India. ``}
Veeresh #33, {``As for India being a failed state, I don`t know about that, doesn`t look like it from my perch as well as from the ground. Yes, some people would love to see India as a failed state. Too bad for them. ``}
einsteinwalla #20 {``India is not failed state. Period.``}

Friends,
Many people want to refer to states that they dislike as ``failed states.`` In my opinion, there are certain criteria that define a failed state. Just like life, failed states are not black and white. This failure can be temporary, ongoing, and sometimes long-term, even permanent if not fatal. Also, one person`s failed state is another`s utopia. When you don`t get a raise, it`s a bad economy, when your neighbor loses his job, it`s a recession, when you lose your job, it`s a depression. Let me define a ``failed state,`` and then give some examples.

To me a ``failed state`` is one that fails to deliver its basic obligation of protecting the lives, property, and liberties of its citizens. That failure is reinforced when it can`t or won`t stop harm happening to a substantial element or group (minority or majority) within its domain. When the state itself inflicts the harm, then we have no doubt about the failure. While most states fail because of a breakdown in law and order, failure can also be attributed to financial bankruptcy, massive insurrection, natural disasters, or even war. Some examples:

Afghanistan, Cambodia, Somalia, Sierra Leone are some recent examples of confirmed failed states.
Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan (during 1971 East Pakistan calamity), Yemen, Sri Lanka are examples of states failing due to civil strife.
India (during 1984 Delhi, 2002 Gujarat), Pakistan (during 1986 and 1989-1992 Karachi, 2005 Baluchistan, 2003 NWFP), Iraq (1991) are examples of uncontrolled violence aided by the government in power. To the Sikhs in 1984, Muslims in 2002, and Mohajirs in 1986 and 1990 their respective countries must have definitely felt like failed states.
Pakistan 1999 and several Latin American countries in the 1970s were almot failed states due to financial bankruptcy.
Miyanmar (Burma) and Zimbabwe are fast approaching the real failed state category.

I have limited the examples to the more or less recent events.

Farrzana ji
We all know there are problems in the system............there are critics everywhere, and you have labelled almost every alternative as utopia.

What alternative do you suggest??

not bad (praise in my understated way)
{However painful and gruesome the Partition of India, on hindsight it would be proper to see it as the extension of democracy as chaos, in that Jinnah was giving a voice to the repressed needs of some. Therefore, it cannot be belittled in any manner. Whatever be the political expediency of his position – and almost all the leaders of stature then were on this grand ‘we are fighting for freedom’ trip anyway – the fact is that ‘free expression’ for a free state, and its subsequent realisation, is a part of the democratic, as much as it is of the demagogic, principle. }

are you still writing about Bal Thakrey (sorry missed the Jinnah but the shoe seemed to fit).

{Unlike the stratified and codified democracies of the West where you are riled for snorting but not for bombing, the subcontinent has a dynamic protocol-less mutinous edge. An unlettered village woman can become a threat to a dictator-president;}

i bet eighty rupees that Muk-Mai would not be a hero without the codified west. left to the horribly suffocatingly rigid protocol of the sub-continent, m-mai would become a servant in her rapist house, tending to his cows and sugarcanes. the dictator only seems to be scared of washington post, and not some dynamic-protocol-less mileu... :-(

Farzana, if this article is supposed to be about the re-discovery of the remains of some of the 2002 Gujarat victims, then where does comparing India with Pakistan come into the picture please?

I mean, you say:- ``Pakistan is a failed state. So is India.``

As for the Utopian rest, nature itself is not based on equality, especially since you quote from the Advaita. Everything is cyclical and even time is probably an illusion of destruction in reverse as well as forward directions. The make / preserve / destroy trilogy goes on and on.

As for India being a failed state, I don`t know about that, doesn`t look like it from my perch as well as from the ground. Yes, some people would love to see India as a failed state. Too bad for them.

Best//veeresh

Chowk-Staff:

Where is this link in the footer?

{Please keep the comments relevant to the article other comments may be sent in feedback using the link in the footer. }

test

{Pakistan is a failed state. So is India. }

India is not failed state. Period.

If the government really wanted to destroy evidence would it not be much better to cremate the bodies? Like it happened during KPS Gills`s times in Punjab?

You are an unhinged psychotic. That is all one can say of this article. It is a product of a raving mad person.

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Please keep the comments relevant to the article other comments may be sent in feedback using the link in the footer.

Sincerely
Chowk-staff

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Re: # 18

still unclear....can anyone explain this sentence to me please?

Re: # 17
saminasha...
... all cats are black in darkness...;)

{``Utopia would require a man with clear sight to enter a dark cellar with a torch, find a black cat and proceed to paint it white.``}

Can someone explain what this sentence means?

#11, {``Salim: You are to be `informed` that ``enjoyment`` does not always result in lethargy....is this all you could come up with? No further discussion? ``}

Farzana,
That`s right... and please don`t forget that, OK?
No more silly and lazy articles like the one you wrote about that Thatcher fellow in Bombay or whatever his name is. You are much better than that. Did your dog write that article? :)

Dear Farzana,

I don`t know what eastern, western or other forms of democracy are... BUT in the constitution of 1973, Pakistan has a consensus document which fulfills expressions of all kinds... all we need to do in Pakistan is follow that constitution... and not try and follow any utopias...

I was reading this morning a college text from Aisha`s junior year.. called ``Approaching Democracy``... in one of the chapters, the writer argues that religion is all pervasive in American politics... but what the idealists aim to do is ``free exercise of religion``. Whatever real or imagined `ideological` aspirations for Pakistan... this ``free exercise of religion`` is central to any modern nation state... it is this what we ``secularists`` or those who harp on Jinnah`s vision want. When he spoke of a secular polity... he did not necessarily talk of building a berlin wall between church and state... but a wall high enough for the state to operate impartially...

Ummah is utopia,
Mohammad`s teachings are utopia,
For islamic societies, progress is a work of fiction describing a utopia.

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Re: # 6:

[Heartening to see someone still wondering the possibility of Utopias in this day and age. But some would suggest that we already live in one.]

The two sentences are contradictory. The first part deals with doubt....that is the fount and stimulus for renewal. Would it be that the second part means that those who believe in it already are delusionary? Or far too idealistic?

I did mention failed states as also being ideal states. On the face of it this is a contradiction...but as I elaborated, there is much to be said for rebellion. Isn`t More`s ``nowhere`` state a manifestation of this aspect of being and nothingness? It is the `outsider` who works best to set a framework for the machinations within any society.

I do have tremendous belief in the potential of a perfect world. That is the reason I had first written about Shangri-la way back in 1991...a bit after Plato and co, alas:)
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#1: Thank you for directing me to your post. Perhaps you might like to add a few more ideas here to the several I have not been able to fully expand on?
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Salim: You are to be `informed` that ``enjoyment`` does not always result in lethargy....is this all you could come up with? No further discussion?

Drat...tis the holiday season....

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Heartening to see someone still wondering the possibility of Utopias in this day and age. But some would suggest that we already live in one.

Re: # 1

You say, ``Of the Sub-continent, For the Subcontinent...`` under your name. Are these this not familiar words?
Now who is plagiarizing now???
Kamath

Ramble on...sing my song...gonna find my girl..ramble on..

Brilliant writing. (T)

Farazana,
You are back and with gusto. What a masterpiece! I really enjoyed all the contradictions, the sarcasm, and the unique definitions. You have such talent and know how to express yourself so well. Now I know why I am such a fan of yours.

I thought that this was particularly amusing:
{``Utopia would require a man with clear sight to enter a dark cellar with a torch, find a black cat and proceed to paint it white.``}

Please continue to write like this. I usually read to gain information. I read you to for enjoyment.

Hey...I used the word Utopia first....but lets congratulate Subroto!


From my ilaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag!:

``December 26, 2005



My husband tells me stories of a parallel city, invisible, several feet beneath the stretching avenues and the chessboard streets of New York City. It seems that the money holders and wielders continue to build upward in hopes of a city that calls to mind Aristophane`s The Birds. In this Greek satire, a couple in love do not receive the blessings of their parents to marry, and so they ask the birds if they can live in the air. The birds allow the couple their request and the couple live in this utopia until they fall out of love. There are so many ideas about this plot line to relish; the idea that love creates an elevated state that separates lovers from the rest of humanity, that reality causes us to return to gutted and compromised ground, a negotiated Eden, what Adam Zagajewski, the Polish poet calls ``the mutilated world``. ``

bolta_aaina,

Please think before accusing someone of plagiarizing your views. I fail to see the connection between this article and your post except for the word `utopia.`

Re: # 1
just because you used the word ``utopia`` ? Duh!

Sorry to point out that the article is based on my Post#73 Dt.December 22,2005 in the thread of Blasphemy posted by Ms. Jawahara Saidullah. The author has just elaborated my views.