Remembering Munish

DM,

Sorry.......hope Prof. Puri`s friends and family remain brave and positive. As an aside JK taught me.

#113 by khamkhwa. on January 5, 2006 6:43pm PT


now i hear


Hear from the voices in your head?

...over 100 interacts denouncing muslims and pakistan for the murder of the professor and now i hear it had nothing to do with isi or pakistan...shame on you people for wasting my time...

I think so in every large country there will be disgruntled elements. Exploitation of these elements by foreign power will always be considered an act of war. More terrorist acts are traced to these countries, more will be the legitimation of pre-emptive strike. As I have written many times. Crusades have really never stopped. Interludes in crusades were when the west was regrouping or fighting with itself. The attitude that everything is fair in war and it is okay to tap into unpatriotic citizenry for this is very cynical attitude. It can be used by any country to subvert any country.

DM,
Sorry to hear the loss of your friend. Though I did not know your friend but I had heard about him thorugh some other Mathematics Professor at IIT.

May his Atma find Rest!

further to #109 allama iqbal i think was pointing to something similar in his famous couplet:

jis khet se dahaqaaN ko mayassar na ho rozii
oos khet ke har Khoshaa-e-gandum ko jalaa do

rough translation:

(the land that does not produce food for the worker
burn all the wheat on that land)

although beautifully stated, even this couplet does not fully address the broader issue of human rights. This is because man does not live by bread alone. human rights are an even broader concept, and includes the right to be left alone. And any ideology (nationalism, hindu or muslim chauvinism) that does not seek to serve these rights can burn in hell.

#108 Politicians, bureaucrats and national leaders reflect the basic values and attitudes of a society. So, the ``bunch of b@!#$@ds`` as you accurately refer to these characters in fact applies to any one of us who is more concerned with some half-baked ideology of nationalism than with the rights of the individual.

In other words, for anyone for whom AJK (Azad Jammu and Kashmir. i.e. the glorification of the state, or of religion for that matter) takes precedence over the rights of AJK (Average Joe Kashmiri, i.e. respect for the rights of the human being). Of what use is a state or a religion if it does not serve the welfare of the individual?

#96 tahmed2: ``However, I think the issue of the well-being of the average Abdul Joe Kashmiri (AJK), is not just a ``good sentiment but impractical`` but an area where there IS a black and white. I saw the pictures of kashmiri families re-united after 50 years and it made my blood boil to think that these poor people suffered for the incompetence and sins of the politicians and military of both countries. What right does any individual (no matter if he is a president of pm or ``freedom fighter``) have to deny the right of some other individual to live in peace and security?!! ``
I share your sentiment. Being separated from family for decades on the other side of the border/LoC, and never seeing them again, though you know they are just a few hundred km away, not being able to afford the circuitous route or the cumbersome visa procedures, can be heart-breaking. It is not just people on either side of the LoC who are going through this. It is also people in Punjab, Rajasthan, and even places like UP/MP/Bihar from where people migrated to Pakistan. Politicians and especially bureaucrats are a heartless bunch of b@!#$@ds.
The irony of the Kashmir situation is that, had the residents of the valley not `revolted` in 89, their voting power would have forced the Indian govt to find ways and means to enable easy cross-LoC travel. Especially given the coalition govts of the past few elections, even small parties whose support is essential, can accumulate a lot of power and get things done. But if you pick up the gun...

re:#97 by labyrinth1
You, like many Pakis, live in the world of your own making that is far removed from reality.
Nation states do not give up territory that easily, not to terrorists.
Kashmir will remain a part of India. India may have to accomodate Kashmirirs by giving them more autonomy, that is all.
Sridhar

re:#93 by HP
So, u want Kashmiri self-determinaiton.
How about
self-determinaiton for other ethnic groups in Pakas they think they are being targeted by the Punjabi Army or dominated by Punjab.
(The dominant Punjabis have never succeeded in forging a Pakistani national identity. Balochistan, Pakistan`s largest province, has chaffed under the iron fist of Islamabad. (When I asked my cab driver here in London if he was Pakistani, he replied indignantly, ``I am not Pakistani! I am from Balochistan!``) Pashtuns in the North-West Frontier Province have long dreamed of an independent Pashtunistan with their ethnic cousins across the Afghan border.)
(Pakistan`s eastern wing, now Bangladesh, won its war for independence in 1971, but 3 million Bengalis died in the process. The Punjabis have suppressed past rebellions in Balochistan and would do so again.)
How about right of self-determination for Pakhtoons in the form of
Pakhtoonistan?
Kashmiri ethnicity is strong and sees itself seperate from Indian nationalism but it has the opportunity to submerge its ethnicity within Indian national identity without losing it, just like many others like Tamils,Punjabees (Indian), Gujaratis have done.
I have always believed that Indian Army should leave Kashmir the day terrorism from Pak stops. Internal terrorist acts can be tackled by the elected state govt in Kashmir.
Idea of nationstate is new but ethnic communities (like Kashmiris, Afghans etc) have lived for many centuries. Nation state (like India) has today welded many such communities under one umbrella, creating a rule of law so all can move towards progress. If Kashmiris want to opt out of the union, such a demand should come not out of the barrel of the gun but through the ballot. I think India is already moving towards granting Kashmir substantial autonomy (like the pre-1952 level), so they should have nothing much to complain about.
Sridhar

re:#87 by ahmadzai
Considering that much of terrorism now-a-days traces its origin to Pakistan (directly or indirectly), i would not be surprised if Bangalore killing too has some Paki connections. Clear proof is lacking at present, so i will be silent on the subject until i see a clear proof.
Sridhar

re:#67 by HP
RAW has been accused of involvement in Balochistan. Stoking the fire mainly. But i must say nobody can beat a Paki when it comes to screwing oneself. You guys screwed up in Bangladesh. NOw, u guys are repeating the same mistake.
Sridhar

re:#63 by sadna
India`s weakness is exploited by Pakis and others.
The quesiton to ask would be: if a Hyderabadi muslim is involved in the act, what was his motivation? Why was he feeling alienated with India? If one`s house is in order, few would dare cast an evil eye.
Sridhar

re: #61 by bbabu
(There is no evidence that the killing was done by a political or religious group of any agenda. It is pure speculation.)
Looks like u are right.
All i am hearing is some connection with LeT, blah, blah,blah. Nothing concrete so far. I would not pronounce this as anything connected with Kashmir or Pak until more evidence surfaces.
It is no doubt a dastardly terrorist act.
Sridhar

re: this article
Dost Mitterji,
It must be a great loss to you. We all read the report and felt very sad.
Sridhar

#97 by labyrinth1 on January 4, 2006 11:58am PT


Kashmir Bane-ga-Pakistan ( Insh`Allah tu Tallah )


Allah hasn`t inshed in the past 50+ years..What makes you think your batting average is about to improve in the next, say, 50 years or so...

ahmadzai #87

`` The article is on a separate matter. May the Supreme Being bless the soul of the departed and enable all of us to follow-in his good footsteps.

However, the real issue is that when each and every killing in India is conveniently blamed on Pakistan by the Indian Government without any proof and the stance quickly taken up by Indian media as a crusade against Pakistan, we get the resultant brainwashed Indians all over the world.

The real problem is not Islamic Jihadis who can be easily identified, chased and bombed all over the world, but these `educated and IT savvy` hate Muslim and hate Pakistan Indians infesting websites all over. How do you bring them back to normalcy?

The Indian Government should have looked at all the aspects instead of trying to score browny points. The gruesome murder could have been committed by disgruntled servants, students, people of the underworld looking for easy money, etc. But no sir, every single crime in India has to be blamed on Pakistan. ``

I do not disagree with your overall complaint.

Blame the Pakistani government for getting you in the present state. Pakistan played its role in Indian Punjab and Kashmir. Do you still think Pakistani government did not orchestrate the Indian Airlines hijacking from Kathmandu to Kandahar ? Add to it the denial of support for the Taliban and lies about nuclear proliferation. It is easy to see why the Pakistani state has zero credibility.

DM: I think the discussion below is related to the topic. However, if you feel that it in any way detracts from the respect due to the memory of your late friend, please let me know.

Its obvious Indian Held Kashmir is not a normal Indian State because its is a occupied state - to make Kashmir part of Indian Establishment India did everything she can for more then 5o years but can not control the freedom movement in Kashmir and Insh`Allah will never can .
Yes maybe phyically Jammu is part of India but does people who live in Jammu thinks of themselves as Indians ? No way --
Kashmir Bane-ga-Pakistan ( Insh`Allah tu Tallah )

HP #93 There is no black and white aspect in political issues, and what you say about Bangladesh and Kashmir is certainly reasonable. This is a gray area with different aspects that we could discuss forever.

However, I think the issue of the well-being of the average Abdul Joe Kashmiri (AJK), is not just a ``good sentiment but impractical`` but an area where there IS a black and white. I saw the pictures of kashmiri families re-united after 50 years and it made my blood boil to think that these poor people suffered for the incompetence and sins of the politicians and military of both countries. What right does any individual (no matter if he is a president of pm or ``freedom fighter``) have to deny the right of some other individual to live in peace and security?!!

So, I think our difference is not one of principle (where we both agree on this focus on the individual being a ``good sentiment``), but one of the role we allow that principle to play in forming our views. I think we need to keep it as the litmus test when forming our views on any issue.

PS: i am sorry we have to conduct this discussion with pandit-hates like pmishra trying to butt in, but what the hell!! :-)

93/HP
[..... It is now clear that the army in Kashmir is being used to suppress Political demands of Kashmiris....]

Give it up man - even Ahmed Mian32 is not buying your cr@p...... That should tell you something.....

indian army first paratrooped in kashmir at the request of then maharaja to defend against raping-pillging hordes sent by paki regime, and then stayed on to defend the LOC, a constant state of war, and acts of escalation during 65, 71 and kargil.

tahmed,
“despite the rhetoric from india and the bengali politicians, the fact is that military force in East Pakistan was triggered by the need to keep the country together”

Not true and perhaps we will disagree on this but the army in East Pakistan was used to suppress Bengali political demands. There was no separatist movement in East Pakistan nor did Bengali declare independence from Pakistan BEFORE the army action in East Pakistan.
Once the army action started, Bengalis had every right to pursue whatever course of action was deemed best by the Bengali political leadership.

No Kashmir group in Indian Kashmir has declared independence nor has any one demanded the right of self determination. In the absence of a cause, the continued use of the Indian army in Kashmir begs subsequent action.

The Indian govt’s plea in using the army was the foreign interference but after ten years the Indian army has failed to show any progress in that area. It is now clear that the army in Kashmir is being used to suppress Political demands of Kashmiris.

I have no stake in Kashmir so my interest is academic. The way I look at it, Kashmir is not a dispute between the two countries anymore. It is an issue between Kashmiris and illegal suppression of their human, constitutional and civil rights within the state of India by the Indian government and the Indian army.

“So, if one is concerned about the people of kashmir, one should start with the first thing that any normal person wants - peace and security.”

Good sentiments but have no practical meaning. There is a huge gap between “personal wants” and the reality on the ground.

HP #91 If military force is used to commit genocide, then certainly the community has the right to self-defense and to fight back. This is consistent with the generally accepted principles of self-defense.

However, despite the rhetoric from india and the bengali politicians, the fact is that military force in East Pakistan was triggered by the need to keep the country together, not to perform a nazi-style ``final solution``. Similarly, regardless of the rhetoric from pakistan, the fact is that military force was triggered in kashmir by the need to fight the separatist movement.

Whether an indian flag flies over srinagar, or a pakistani one, or a kashmiri one - it does not matter one bit to allah ditta sitting in kashmir whose main concern is to get by the best he can. The continuing violence and instability is hurting allah ditta far more than any possible benefits he could get by a change of flags in srinagar.

If this was 1947, or even 1965, and borders were fluid, there could have been some justification of pakistani military force to take over kashmir by force if that was possible. But we are in a post-nuclear age in south asia. The LoC has gelled into becoming the international border for all practical purposes. So, if one is concerned about the people of kashmir, one should start with the first thing that any normal person wants - peace and security. Time to move on. Like all land feuds, this one serves no one and has gone far too long already.

tahmed,
“the Indian military presence in Kashmir is, per se, is in fact perfectly within the accepted norms of the exercise of state power.”

Presence of the army and the use of the army as a political deterrent agency are two different things. You can’t have one side using the ultimate force and the other side not responding to it. That is not how this world works. The Indian army has been used as a political force in Kashmir for more than a decade now and has not shown any progress in combating the so called foreign elements in Kashmir. That means only one thing that the insurgency in Kashmir is local and the army is being used to persecute the civilians.

I would draw the analogy from the army action in East Pakistan. Pakistan used the army to suppress bengali political struggle and demands. Once the army was used, Bengalis had every right to respond back in kind and that included getting support from the outside powers such as India too.

Sorry to see this forum on Dr. Puri has been hijacked by crazies justifying violence and invoking ``root cause`` to justify hate and mass murder. Sad and strange...

One good thing is there hasn`t been a rush to judgement by the police and local authorities. A few people have been arrested and are being questioned BUT no one claims that the attack is solved etc.

---

Bangalore breakthrough: ‘South India head of LeT’


IISc Police think Rehman masterminded terror attack, he lived in Saudi Arabia, visited Bangladesh, has been in India since Oct


JOHNSON T A


Posted online: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 at 0128 hours IST



BANGALORE, JANUARY 3: The Bangalore police on Tuesday announced their first major breakthrough in the investigations into the December 28 attack on the Indian Institute of Science by showing the arrest of a 35-year-old resident of Nalgonda district in Andhra Pradesh, Abdul Rehman alias Umed alias Mohammed Raiz-ur Rehman— reportedly the head of the south India operations of the Lashkar-e-Toiba.

Rehman was picked up in Nalgonda on January 1, Bangalore Police Commissioner Ajay Kumar Singh said without elaborating on Rehman’s role in the December 28 attack that killed former IIT Delhi professor M C Puri.



Sources said that the arrest has been made on the premise that Rehman funded and masterminded the IISc attack. Rehman’s passport shows that he has been in Saudi Arabia for nearly 13 years. The passport also bears immigration stamps for Bangladesh, sources said.

‘‘He has been in India since Ramzan. The passport is stamped for entry at the Hyderabad airport on October 15, 2005, for his arrival from Riyadh,’’ sources revealed.

During his interrogation over the past few days, Rehman has said that he has never visited Bangalore. He claims to have only visited Hyderabad and Chennai on one occasion.

According to sources, Rehman is a follower of the Al Haddees sect in Islam and was a sort of preacher and a translator from Arabic to Urdu at an Islamic Study Centre in Saudi Arabia. Police are trying to follow up on leads on friends and contacts of Rehman found at his Nalgonda residence.

‘‘We don’t think he was the perpetrator of the attack. His arrest is in relation to the conspiracy. He amassed a lot of wealth in Saudi Arabia and was funding organizations involved in proselytizing for Islam in India. There are discrepancies in what he is telling us,’’ a senior police official said.

Rehman’s family has been living in Nalgonda for several years and his father is reportedly a retired state government employee, while three of his brothers run a business in Nalgonda town, sources said. According to Rehman, he has visited only Chennai outside of Hyderabad in recent years. In 2003, he went to Chennai to collect a consignment of Islamic books in English and Urdu, he has told investigators. Police officials are expecting to obtain major leads on the IISc attack through Rehman. They have obtained his custody for 14 days.

DM Saheb

I think we must unequivocally condemn these so called `educated` Pakistanis on this board who support mindless jehadi violence against innocent civilians in order to complete the unfinished agenda of TNT that kashmir represents to them.....................I hope that you understand how deep the fissures have been created in the Pakistani psyche by their theocratic state apparatus that they are unable to comprehend the mindless cycle of violence that their jehadi machinery is going to inflict on their own social fabric..................these idiots do not understand that the enemy is at their own gates..............and they are sleeping with them..............we can only pity them for their fate that awaits them.............

HP: If all you are saying is the right to peaceful demonstration for some grievance, then of course that would not be a problem. It is violent actions I am arguing against, since these achieve nothing other than victimize innocent people, and the ``cause`` for which violence is undertaken almost always turns out to be a mirage: there is no perfect society, and violence almost always serves to hinder the general social and economic progress. As I said, for better or worse, human society today is structured as nation-states, and one of the basic tenets of the nation-state is that the only form of violence permitted within a state is that conducted within existing laws by state agencies (including the military). So, the Indian military presence in Kashmir is, per se, is in fact perfectly within the accepted norms of the exercise of state power.

Birmingham: While you are right in condemning the london bombings, you do so for the wrong reasons: these bombings are wrong because they break the law in the same way an individual breaks the law and becomes a common criminal when he commits murder. Not because of the reasons you list - i.e. you dont kill people because you dont like their views (as you imply in reason 2 is OK), and you dont kill people because they belong to a nation that occupies another nation (as you imply in your reason 3), i.e. because you dont like the community they belong to. Dont we have enough violence within Pakistan that is carried out for similar ``reasons`` as it is? As for ``attacks against civilians in India are wrong but attacks against Indian Security Officials is not terrorism but defence against a nation which illegally occupies Kashmir by force ``, please see what I wrote to HP above. You are sitting in a country (i.e. UK) where the police dont carry guns, a country that has given the world the concept of the Rule of Law as currently understood. You should be teaching us these things on chowk, rather than talking as if you are never understood what a civilized society is all about.

Dost Mittar jee, HP and Tahmed:

The article is on a separate matter. May the Supreme Being bless the soul of the departed and enable all of us to follow-in his good footsteps.

However, the real issue is that when each and every killing in India is conveniently blamed on Pakistan by the Indian Government without any proof and the stance quickly taken up by Indian media as a crusade against Pakistan, we get the resultant brainwashed Indians all over the world.

The real problem is not Islamic Jihadis who can be easily identified, chased and bombed all over the world, but these `educated and IT savvy` hate Muslim and hate Pakistan Indians infesting websites all over. How do you bring them back to normalcy?

The Indian Government should have looked at all the aspects instead of trying to score browny points. The gruesome murder could have been committed by disgruntled servants, students, people of the underworld looking for easy money, etc. But no sir, every single crime in India has to be blamed on Pakistan.

#85 by IAliBirmingham on January 3, 2006 5:29pm PT


my children and there(sic) children and there(sic) children will fight for our rights until we dont get our land ..



until you get your land or until you run out of children, whichever comes first...

tere dawa janeva mein hai na london mein,
farang ke ragg jaa pahonch yahood mein hai,
suna hai mein nay ghulami say ummatoon ke nejaad,
khudee ke purwash-o-lazat namood mein hai,
...
hai khaaq-e-falasteen pai yahoodi ka haq,
haspania pay nahin kyoon ahal-e-arab ka ,
....
woh faqa-kash kay mo-ot say nahin darta,
rooh-e-mohammad uss ke rooh say nikaal doo,
afghanoo ke gharat dain ka hai yeh ilaaj,
mullah ko iss kay koh-e-daman say nikal doo,
...
kafir ke moot say bhe larazta hai yeh dil,
kehta hai koon iss say kay musalman ke moot marr,
taleem uss ko caahe-yay ussay turk jihad ke,
dunya ko uss kay punja, khooni say ho khatar


Hazrat Alama Iqbal ( rah ) once said about my
nation that ,

gur firdoos bar roo-ay zamee issst - humay issst
waheen issst - o - humay issst
meaning , that if heaven is at a level of earth, then
it is here , it is there

I am emotional now will write some time later ,
arjun ( on a personal note ) , it is this attitude by people like you in Hindustand that the problem of Kashmir is not solved , my children and there children and there children will fight for our rights until we dont get our land ..
shukria

Please refrain from using interact space to post message to Chowk staff, use the feedback link at the bottom of each page if you have questions which need our attention.

Thank you,

Chowk Staff

#82 by IAliBirmingham on January 3, 2006 4:05pm PT


My war is not against people like Munish but a war for my land who is decleared and acknowledged by United Nations to this day


India doesn`t care what the UN says...in any case, the UN doesn`t say the land belongs to you..you only own what you can defend...

If the land is ``yours``, why did you run away in Kargil? why isn`t the paki army marching in srinagar?


and if what I support is illegal then be it ..


Sure...go to Kashmir and fight for your freedom..Kashmir banega Pakistan..inshallah..NOT..

p.s. It`s not illegal for the Indian army to kill any inbred brit-paki seeking a glorious death in the company of 72 virgins..

#55 by TheoVanGogh , TAhmed Sahab,
first we Kashmiris in Birmingham and arround the world are not religious people ( JI in Indian Occupied Kashmir and JI in Azad Kashmir is not a big party - and in case of Mr. Gelani he is popular in Occupied Kashmir specially in Jammu and other rural parts because on his tough stand against this wanabe secular state of India and not because he ( Gelani ) belongs to a religiouis party ) ,
as far as Pakistani Community ( which includes Kashmiris as well ) are concerned , what happened on 7/7 was pure terrorism because ,
a) this was a act against innocents
b) act against people who never supported Iraqi War
c) act against a nation which does not occupies a nation ..

attacks against civilians in India are wrong but attacks against Indian Security Officials is not terrorism but defence against a nation which illegally occupies Kashmir by force ( does not allow International Human Rights Organizations to enter plus not allow presence of UN in Occupied Area of Indian Held Kashmir )
My war is not against people like Munish but a war for my land who is decleared and acknowledged by United Nations to this day
and if what I support is illegal then be it ..

tahmed,

Let me explain it in little bit more details. Kashmir is not an issue of self determination. No matter what Pakistani government says, Kashmir joined India on the bases of an agreement with the Indian government and that agreement allowed them to have a special status in the Indian constitution. That special status provides them the right of self governing with a limited control of the central Indian government. (Article 370 is what every province in India and Pakistan should look to for solving problems between the State and provinces.)

The Indian state went back on its promises. I have yet to hear from any Kashmir group in India that they want the right of self determination. All they are asking for is implementation of article 370.
Read it here

Kashmiris are Indian citizens. They have a right to protest about their demands in ANY Indian state, city or Province. The Indian government cannot deny them this right until they declare that Kashmir is NOT a part of India thus Kashmiris don’t have equal rights as Indian citizens.

Now in response to Kashmir demands for their rights within the Indian constitution, India government chose to bring the regular Indian army to attack Kashmir. This is in contrast to what Indian government did in Assam where they used the Assam rifles and other outfits in different names.

Since the Indian government is using the regular Indian army to attack and dismantle Kashmiris political demands, the Kashmiris have an equal right to reciprocate in kind.
Since they are Indian citizens they have a right to protest in every Indian city and they can use force like the Indian army is using in Kashmir.

As for as ISI support to Indian groups is concerned, I don’ know myself but that is what I hear from Indians on this site and the Indian newspapers such as outlook, the pioneer, Indian express are full of stories about the ISI links with the naxalites, AP, Maharashtra jharkand or shakkarkund(whatever) and many other states.

What should I believe my lying eyes or Indian newspapers and Indian posters on this site? All I am saying is that the ISI is so influential in India because of Hindu traitors in India.

The ISI should be given credit to give not only Indian security agencies but the India state a run for their money. Read post 63 this RSS agent is saying that ISI controls all dissent in India. India invests Rs. 1200 billion in security agencies every year. All that money is completely wasted if the ISI can still find a good number of Hindu traitors to work with the ISI against the Indian Union in the heart of India.

The ISI bogey shows the inability of the Indian State to deal with its own internal problems.

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HP #77 The logic of what you say in your first para. totally escapes me: no citizen of any country has the right to take the law into his own hands. what am i missing here?

similarly, in your second para., of course the indian military is present in kashmir just as the pakistan military is present in azad kashmir and all over pakistan. what else do you expect these two nations to do other than simply hand over their part of kashmir to some ethnic kashmiri (who would then simply ensure control by creating a kashmir military). these are perfectly acceptable practices by the rules by which the system of nation states operates.

As for ISI supporting lawless groups in India - I hope to God that you are wrong. Do you have any proof of this? Whose interest in Pakistan would it serve to support such groups? Certainly not the ordinary Pakistani who couldnt tell a naxalite from a termite. And certainly not the musharraf government that is smart enough i think to realize that it is being tolerated only as a result of good economic growth, and that the latter is getting a much-needed boost due to improved relations with india.

tahmed,

Kashmir problem is entirely different. Kashmir is a part of India and Kashmiris are fighting the Indian state for their political rights as written in Indian constitution.
Since Kashmiris are Indian citizens, they have every right to take their fight to any Indian city of their choice.

India decided to militarize Kashmir and now Kashmiris have a right to create a security situation in India. Indian army has destroyed commercial life in Kashmir so Kashmir have every right to attack Indian commercial outfits. As I said it is an Indian problem and Indian state chose the weapons there.

Fine, if they wanna give credit to Pakistan and the ISI but that only proves that Indian citizens are traitors to the state of India.

In Bihar, AP, Naxalities, Maharashtrians, and karnatka there are more hindus accepting support form the ISI and Pakistan.

The Indian state has its own Hindu sons betraying Baharat Mata.

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``..A violent end to the life of a most humble and non-violent man....``

Unfortunately but realistically, this is how ``pacificts`` and non violent persons usually meet their fate - as an individual or a group.


Being non violent or pacifict is NOT a virtue. It is lahnat which steals a human`s dignity. First and foremost is self and species` defence and preservation..............


Pacificm has castrated hindus and sikhs.......and such deaths are the result of the disease .....

By no means I am questioning Dr Puri`s personal character.......He did MOST noble deed by taking the bullets for another person......

I am disgusted by the hijrapan of these two communities......unable to defend themselves on their own turf and in their own homes.............

Alas they will never learn, and continue to dwindle...............

dost mittar...
please accept my deepest condolences...has the killer been arrested or identified as an islamic terrorist or which organisation he belongs to...what was the purpose behind this barbarian attack... can any one shed more light on this dastardly attack... thanks.

``...........In a major breakthrough, a Lashkar-e-Taiba operator has been arrested in connection with the terror attack at the Indian Institute of Science (IISc) here on Wednesday last, police said.

Thirty five-year-old Abdul Rehman, a leading LeT operator in the South, was picked up from Nalgonda .......`` from Outlook India......

arjun: you seem to have difficulty learning all by yourself. so i need to step in and provide some remedial training once in a while.

HP: I agree with what you say except the final part. Kashmiris DONT have the right to attack in any city, or anywhere for that matter. They want self-determination and India wont give it to them. Tough. No nation-state normally permits such ``self-determination`` - the US went to a civil war on this issue. Pakistan is fighting baluch separatists on this issue. Nation-states, for better or for worse, are the structure of human society today.

In future, no doubt their significance will be much less than today, anyway. And ethnic allegiances are already weakening around the world as a result of urbanization. Result: issues like kashmir will simply fade away into irrelevance. So, if there is anything constant in our ever-changing world, it is the need for peace and security.

#69 by tahmed32 on January 3, 2006 12:36pm PT

Prophet tahmed(PBUYSRR): I thought you were ignoring me...

arjun #67 You have no proof that the killers were Pakistani citizens? or Indian muslims? They could just as well be hindu extremists who did the killing.

But dont let facts stand in the way of your monkey-ideology.

#67 by HP on January 3, 2006 12:22pm PT



Why the ISI never fails in India


What has it succeeded at?

Liberating Kashmir: Nope..
Breaking up India like 71: Nope...

Kashmir banega Pakistan....NOT!!

Re #65

Why the Indian security agencies cannot find Pakistanis to work with them like the ISI finds Indians all over India even in the deep South and in central India.

Even the former Pakistani congressi would not agree to work with an Indian agency. It is not that Pakistan does not have regional problems. Balochistan and Sindh often flare up but why Indian agencies cannot find anyone to support there?

Why the ISI never fails in India…More Indians are traitors to their own motherland...Bharat mata betrayed by its own hindu sons...

#65 by HP on January 3, 2006 11:55am PT

DM`s friend is dead at the hands of Islamic terrorists...i think he`d rather prefer to be alive and disrespected

If you Islamic terrorists think this killing is going to weaken India`s resolve, you`ll be surprised..and not in a good way..

DM can drink all the india-pak-bhai-bhai kool-aid he wants..fact remains, the scourge of Islamic terrorism is like a cancer on the world...the non-muslim world has seen it`s effects in New york, PA, washington, london, milan, bali etc etc..

If the purpose of post #63 is to continue to disrespect DM’s friend then here is my response.

Indian state is mired in problems that it created. Kashmir is an Indian problem. Indian state has difficulty in dealing with internal problems and finds it easy to blame neighboring countries for problems that it created.

Indian claim that a neighboring country is supplying arms in the heart of India in places like AP, Maharastra,Karnataka and Bihar, speaks volumes about its ability to provide protection to its own people. If the ISI can provide arms to rebels in the central India then one wonders whether the whole Indian security apparatus is on the take.

No outside security agency can succeed without active participation from the Indian citizens. And if Indian citizens want to work with a Pakistani security agency, a mortal enemy, then it speaks volumes about their love for their motherland too. Indians need to learn to condemn traitors within their own citizens before blaming anyone for militancy in India.

The RSS agents would claim Muslim fifth columnists like in post # 63 but they should realize that naxalites and militants in AP and Karnataka are not Muslim and are probably as anti Pakistani as any RSS person could be. But they have no hesitation in accepting arms and money from Pakistan agencies against the State of India as claimed by the Indian government.

It is to ISI credit that it can use Indian Hindu citizens against the Indian state. You don’t have much argument left when you know that traitors are your own Kith and kin.

Indians first learn to accept that ALL problems are their own creation. Pakistan is not a friend of India so if you wanna give Pakistan credit for supplying arms in the heart of India then Pakistanis should welcome it.

There are just more Indian traitors in Indian borders then they can find outside.

Kashmiris have a right to respond in kind in every Indian city....
Don`t like it ... duh!

hindvi
You might be interested in this:
http://www.smallwars.quantico.usmc.mil/search/LessonsLearned/Misc/MarksArticle.pdf

For starters I think India needs to cease all educational and scientific exchanges with Pakistan. A state which actively propagates an ideology which has no value for these, will not miss these exchanges. To my knowledge, no other violent political movement targetting the Indian state, resembles the jihadi ideology in its ideological hostility towards and committment to wipe out everything intellectual.

And if by targetting educationists and scientists, people want to create an Algeria-like civil war in India because they hate Hindus, so be it. I for one am willing to fight - what jihadis and their supporters forget is that Hindus have something to fight for too, if not other Indians.


That said to the Pakistanis justifying killings here, gujju conveniently forgot to post this from the outlookindia.com article he quoted:

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20060102&fname=ajai&sid=1
``The attack in Bangalore was only the more visible evidence of a long-term war of attrition by Pakistani state agencies and their jehadi surrogates, intended to undermine India’s political stability, increasingly by attacking its economic, scientific and technological strengths.The objective is to gradually undermine India’s capacities for growth, as well as to weaken international confidence in the country and to create an atmosphere of pervasive terror over wide areas that would dampen the country’s capacity to attract foreign investment.

It is important to note, however, that despite occasional and inevitable ‘successes’, this relentless strategy – which has targeted virtually every concentration of Muslim populations in India for decades – has overwhelmingly failed to secure a base within the community, beyond a minuscule radical fringe. Further, the record of intelligence and security agency successes against such subversion and terror, although lacking the visibility and drama of a terrorist strike, is immensely greater than the record of the successes of this strategy.

#53 by IAliBirmingham on January 3, 2006 9:29am PT


I along with every Kashmiri and Pakistani will not stop fighting Indian Forces * and not civilians * until Kashmir is independent .


Or, until you`re all dead...

What? didn`t consider that...? why am I not surprised

HP #44

`` At this time there are only speculations about the shooters being Kashmiris.
In that case, it is an Internal Indian problem and like many other problems in India, the Indian government has no solution for it. ``

There is no evidence that the killing was done by a political or religious group of any agenda. It is pure speculation.

`` There is a war going on in Indian Kashmir at least the presence of 500k to 750k Indian army would suggest that. People die in Kashmir everyday. In view of that, Kashmiris have every right to strike anywhere in India. If Kashmir is a part of India then Kashmiris should take the fight to every Indian city. If people are going to die in Kashmir then nobody should begrudge the right of Kashmiris to retaliate wherever they can in India. ``

It would be real stupid to go around setting off bombs in Chennai, Bangalore or Hyderabad. Be careful in what you bargain for.

`` It is not surprising that problems are mounting in India. If a country embarks upon an uneven economic development path, it is going to have resentment in less developed areas. We see mounting problems in Bihar and AP. Naxalites are running loose. People are talking about the red corridor and the militancy is on the rise in AP and Karnataka. ``

IT or no IT - Naxalites have always existed in Bihar and AP. Karnataka has no known domestic militancy. They have had problems with linguistic minorities - none of whom resort to this kind of violence.

`` Peasants are losing their land: The proportion of landless households among the rural population has risen from 35 per cent in 1987-88 to 41 per cent in 1999-2000; the proportion of landless and marginal combined has risen from 55 per cent to 63 per cent in this period. ``

The rural poor have a higher birthrate. Hence the increase in their numbers. The small holdings of land gets sub-divided. Hence the increase in marginal landowners.

`` Karnataka is low on rainfall, has large stretches of arid land, and is strapped by high poverty levels. ``

It would be true even if there was no IT. It is a function of geography.

`` During the last five years over Rs 240 billion has been spent on the National Highways Development Project (largely on the Golden Quadrilateral between the four metropolises), only Rs 115 billion has been spent on the Pradhan Mantri Gram Sadak Yojana, which aims to connect no less than 170,000 unconnected villages with roads. ``

There is nothing wrong with the National Highway project. You just need more of it.

`` This is just a sample. There is not enough space on Chowk to complete the list of other existing and brewing problems.
It is the inability of the Indian governments to find solutions that leads to incidents like the one in Bangalore. ``

You have no evidence who the culprits are.

`` If Indian government finds a military solution of Kashmir then Kashmiris should find a military solution too. Take the fight to Indian cities. ``

it is hard to wage war without money, explosives, guns and a geographical sanctuary.

Aslan

I dont think tahmed is a supporter of terrorism - I think he is a good man responding as any decent man would to the call for the killing of innocents on his territory.

HP is a snivelling Sindhi piece of human and moral excrement who celebrates Dr Puri being murdered so he deserves it and to concentrate the mind, an imagining of his loved ones being murdered by legitimate expressions of popular grievance, for example a stray MQM bullet - whoops!

As for Ali from Birmingham, well the whole country of Britain is sick and tired of screaming, chest thumping Kashmiri Islamist Psychopaths.

Living in their ghettoes, watching videos of Americans and Jews being decapitated, plotting suicide bombing - after the `proud freedom fighters` of the London Underground blew themselves up, those great Kashmiri freedom fighters from Leeds, the entire nation is sick to death of these whinging, screaming, self pitying terrorist breeding community of men living in ghettoes, drug dealing, pimping, then when they turn 21 turning into Jihadis and plotting to kill as many innocent kaffirs as they can by blowing themselves up.

Soon these in-bred half-wits will be calling Bradford an `occupied territory` and calling on the Ummah to help them liberate it. The most backward community in the whole of Britain, illiterate, unemployed, seething with hatred and violence, suicide-bombing of Jews and British cities is the main growth industry for young British Kashmiri men.

As I said, the whole of the UK is sick and tired of their half witted imbecility and ignorance and violence and fundamentalism.

Birmingham #53 What I wrote in #57 to an Indian poster applies to you as well.

I apologize Dost mittar! I had never wanted to ruin your memories of your friend. I hope your Indian friends had the sense to not use this board to post their typical mantras despite your pleas.

Until Indian government arrests and punishes someone, it is just speculation about who did that and it could be just another drive by shooting.

My point is simple…It is an Indian problem and Indians should deal with it. If the Indian army can kill people in Kashmir then kashmirs have a right to respond in kind...You may not like it but that is what it is....

Cussing like a widow wont change a thing.

#54 OK. You have responded in a decent and reasonable manner, and so ``lowlife`` was not the right word, and I take it back with apologies.

My basic point remains - anyone who applauds acts of violence against innocent people (as you were doing), is part of the problem himself. If you wish to be part of the solution, then rise above petty communalism, and dont take sides in distinguishing between ``good`` vs ``bad`` terrorism as you were doing.

TVG...tahmed chachu is an Islamic terrorist monkey himself. No different from HP or the new monkey Ali from Birmingham.

IAliBirmingham

Salaams Brummie Paki

Your lads have taken the fight to the London Underground too. Have you volunteered for the next Mirpuri firework display in England? What`s your next target?

In bred, over fed, suicide bombing - British Kashmiris are a true blessings to their nation.

Are you planning to blow up the Bull Ring then?

tahmed32

Your friend HP called for more killings of the kind described in this article. He must be `high life` and we are the `low life` but I think you are just confused, old man.

As a Kashmir ( migrated from Jammu to Mirpur , AJK , Pakistan ) living in Birmingham , I support our freedom fighters like my dad , my grandfather and his grandfather . Our struggle for independence will not stop until we get our motherland back free from Indian Influence and Free from Indian Constitution which we reject and strongly reject .
I am a born and bread British Pakistani of Kashmiri Origin which I am proud of , I along with every Kashmiri and Pakistani will not stop fighting Indian Forces * and not civilians * until Kashmir is independent .

#49 dont tell me you were ``merely responding`` to HP - chowk is littered with posts from indians trying to bad mouth pakistan at every opportunity. but i dont see any pakistani responding by applauding acts of terrorism.

HP

Just the beginning of what? A call to terrorism in India by an emasculated Sindhi on a message board? Oh wow.

We`ll worry when you have the actual plans in place to kill murder and slaughter in India - until then you`re just a piss ant. But it is fun.

As I said, a curse to all those who call for terrorism and the killing of innocents - lets hope the blowback starts with your family or better still yourself - an MQM bullet to the head because of Muhajir inequality and economic injustice would be poetry in motion for a snake with a small penis like you. Get your land back Sindhi - you are being occupied by Bihari scum.

HP: No need to explain yourself to these lowlife.

As I told dost mittar on unplugged earlier on, the loss of his friend is a loss for all of us and the killers -regardless of who they are - are the common enemy of all of us. But if lowlife from india think they can use every opportunity to demonstrate their prickly little personalities on chowk by bad mouthing Pakistan, then you dont need to explain yourself to these scum. Ignore them, or have a bit of fun with them. But you dont reason with such scum.

tahmed32

I was just responding to HP`s call to terrorists to kill and maim in Indian cities.

And I am not making a call to Hindu terrorists to kill and create mass murder on the streets of Karachi and Rawalpindi.

I am calling on Sunni & Shia, Arabs, Somalians, Chechnyans, Afghans, Baluchi`s, Sindhis, Punjabis, Pathans, Muhajir`s and Ahmaddiya`s to engage in a ceaseless bout of suicde bombing, mass murder, retaliatory killing, blood slaughter, kidnapping, filmed decapitations and mosque destroying and an endless cycle of violence to be kicked up and started in Pakistan because of the mess in Iraq, the unequal distribution of wealth, economic injustice, sharia discrpancies. Let the streets flow with blood for the inequality in wealth and sharia disputes. It is what is needed, along the lines of the Sindhi mouse called HP

Not a single Hindu needed - plenty of Muslims to do the job.

In case you didnt notice I was just throwing the moral excrement back in the face of the human excrement called HP who said he prays for more terrorism in Indian cities.

Tit for tat - dont get so riled up Uncle. I dont really wish it to happen. Except to those who pray for it to happen to others ie: Inbred baboons like HP

#46 by TheoVanGogh

I did not turn this obituary into a slugfest but sometimes it is good to hear the other side…Mine is just the beginning…

There is no terrorism in Kashmir. As long as Indian army is looking for an armed solution there, Kashmiri should respond in the same way…in every Indian city if they can...

#46 Quiet everyone - the voice of hindu terrorism speaks: ``I believe that all terrorists who strike within the borders of Pakistan are legitimate and to be applauded...``. ha! ha! No wonder your monkey king Modi is barred from entry to the US on account of his terrorist activities.

only trouble is, your hindu terrorists would be spotted upon crossing the border given their single-toe chappal; and smelled even before they come near Pakistan, given the strong aroma of heeng coming from them.

Re: Number 44

I believe that all terrorists who strike within the borders of Pakistan are legitimate and to be applauded for their reaction to the un-even implementation of Sharia law and unequal distribution of wealth. All ethnic terrorism, particularly in Sindh, with Sindhi`s turned into frightened mice in their own land, is legitimate - terrorism all ways - Muhajir on Sindhi on Baluchi on Punjabi - these are all legitimate expressions and to be encouraged and applauded.

Further to this all religious terrorism is to be applauded, as is terrorism by Christians against Muslims. Pakistan is part of the Ummah and it is only fair and correct that Karachi be turned into a bloodbath because Shia and Sunni are fighting in Iraq.

All terrorists take the fight to the whole of Pakistan - fight and kill for your legitimate cause. Start with HP`s family in Karachi.

Dost-Mittar ....pay special attention to #44. See how this guy almost applauds the killing of your friend. Such are the sort of people you hang out with here. Enough said.

It is too bad that someone lost a dear one but the reality is that dear ones die in Kashmir everyday and not all of them have an obituary written for them.

At this time there are only speculations about the shooters being Kashmiris.
In that case, it is an Internal Indian problem and like many other problems in India, the Indian government has no solution for it.

There is a war going on in Indian Kashmir at least the presence of 500k to 750k Indian army would suggest that. People die in Kashmir everyday. In view of that, Kashmiris have every right to strike anywhere in India. If Kashmir is a part of India then Kashmiris should take the fight to every Indian city. If people are going to die in Kashmir then nobody should begrudge the right of Kashmiris to retaliate wherever they can in India.

It is not surprising that problems are mounting in India. If a country embarks upon an uneven economic development path, it is going to have resentment in less developed areas. We see mounting problems in Bihar and AP. Naxalites are running loose. People are talking about the red corridor and the militancy is on the rise in AP and Karnataka.

It is the failure of Indian state that it is unable to provide for its people. India is a truly failed state.

The number of villages (125,000) lack electricity itself. The most recent National Sample Survey reveals that 46 per cent of rural households depend on kerosene lanterns as their source of lighting. That is a whopping 500 million people.

The situation of health expenditure is particularly appalling – combined state and Central expenditure is in fact just 1 per cent of GDP (not 1.5 per cent as officially claimed). One in ten children born in India dies before the age of five. The cause of the bulk of deaths is malnutrition and common infectious diseases that do not require state-of-the-art medicines. The official concept of the poverty line is absurd, as it considers vast numbers who cannot even meet their daily nutritional requirements as “not poor”.

Peasants are losing their land: The proportion of landless households among the rural population has risen from 35 per cent in 1987-88 to 41 per cent in 1999-2000; the proportion of landless and marginal combined has risen from 55 per cent to 63 per cent in this period.

Karnataka is low on rainfall, has large stretches of arid land, and is strapped by high poverty levels.

But the Indian solution…``One of the ways it can grow, despite these constraints, is to develop as a modern centre for IT (information technology). But this cannot be done without infrastructure.” -- Indian Express, 16/5/05
The joke is on Karnataka’s poor.

During the last five years over Rs 240 billion has been spent on the National Highways Development Project (largely on the Golden Quadrilateral between the four metropolises), only Rs 115 billion has been spent on the Pradhan Mantri Gram Sadak Yojana, which aims to connect no less than 170,000 unconnected villages with roads.

This is just a sample. There is not enough space on Chowk to complete the list of other existing and brewing problems.
It is the inability of the Indian governments to find solutions that leads to incidents like the one in Bangalore.

If Indian government finds a military solution of Kashmir then Kashmiris should find a military solution too. Take the fight to Indian cities…

#42 is typical tactics used by enemies of India where Indian nationalism is denigrated as hindu fundamentalism. Next step would be to claim that the hindutwa guys killed Prof.Puri.

Anyway , the master mind behind the killing was caught today. An Indian muslim working for a Pakistan based anti-India terrorist organisation Laskar-e-Toieba >>

LeT operative arrested in Bangalore for IISc attack

January 03, 2006 12:35 IST


The south India operations chief of Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Tayiba has been arrested at Nalgonda in Andhra Pradesh in connection with the December 28 terrorist attack in the IISc campus in Bangalore.

Abdul Rehman, 35, was taken into custody by a Bangalore police team in the Andhra Pradesh town on January 1 and was remanded in police custody for 14 days by a magistrate Tuesday morning.

It has been established that Rehman has strong LeT links, Bangalore Police Commissioner Ajay Kumar Singh told reporters. The top militant was a frequent visitor to Saudi Arabia, where he stayed for a few years, he said.

Rehman was in charge of `violent` LeT operations in south India and the arrest would `certainly` lead to a major breakthrough in the IISc attack case, Singh said.

Asked if the police could establish Rehman`s role in the attack, he said, ``Since he has been arrested in the IISc attack case, there will be something or the other connection. We have reasons to arrest him.``

The attack outside a conference hall of IISc last Wednesday, when bullets were sprayed from a AK-56 automatic weapon, left a retired professor of IIT Delhi dead and four others wounded.

Bangalore police did not release the photo of Rehman apprehending that investigation might be hampered. Singh said such militants operate with different names, adding, the release of the photo will lead to `loss of links`.

Asked if Rehman was present at the time of the attack, Singh said it would be investigated but added that the computer-generated portrait of the suspected militant that the police released last week did not match that of Rehman. He said Rehman`s role in the attack was being investigated.

Singh added that the team had not arrested anybody in connection with the case except Rehman. Singh said it was premature to say whether Rehman was the prime accused or an abettor in the IISc attack but asserted that the police `have reasons to arrest him`.

``What exact role he played is a matter of investigation,`` the police commissioner said. On Rehman`s nationality, Singh said the militant is said to be of Indian nationality.

Responding to a query, he said Rehman would be subjected to narco-analysis test, if necessary. The special team which went to Hyderabad had returned with `lot of background, useful material`.

Thank you Aslan for demonstrating the hindutva mentality: any killing that takes place in India is a muslim conspiracy, no investigation necessary. Any Indian like hindvi who uses common sense is a pakistani agent or one of those treacherous Indian muslims posing as a hindu.

One must understand the mentality of Hindvi and his quam. To fight an enemy , you must first of all atleast identify him and understand is motivations. Make no mistake , people like Hindvi are our enemies. They are the sort who killed Prof.Puri and will kill many more in the future until they are stopped.

People like Dost-Mittar want to close their eyes to the truth. Singing paens about hindu-muslim brotherhood and secularism wont solve the problem. The enemy is too cruel , cunning and ruthless for that.

Here is another Indian muslim like Hindvi , on a popular desi blog - Sepia Mutiny , giving his take on the B`lore shooting incident....

---

Nazir :

``Kush and the rest of Indians:

If having a Mulsim [apologist for a Mulsim] President, a figurehead Sikh PM etc, makes a nation secular. Then I am assuming you all must be big fans of George W. After all, he has appointed more minorities to high positions then his predecesors. e.g, Condi Rice, Powell etc.

I was an Engineering student at the Aligarh Muslim University in the mid nineties. And during my years there, whenever India played Pakistan in cricket of hokey, all of us Mulsims, Kashmiri or non Kashmiri, ALL OF US, supported Pakistan. Not only did we root for Pakistan, but also rooted for any country playing against India.
Do visit the AMU campus during a sporting event and see it for your self. Better yet, visit the Muslim localities of Delhi, Bombay and Hyderabad and witness the state of your faux secularism.

Get this through your head - the partition of India is incomplete.

To prove it further, I will posit a hypothetical query - What would happen if say Gujarat or Rajhastan becomes, by some miracle a Mulsim Majority state?
I will tell you what will happen - the said state will demand to seccede from ``Mother India``.
And rightfuly so. India, in my experience is only for Hindus. See Narendra Modi, Jagdish Tytler, etc. They are responsible for the death of thousands of minority, Sikhs and Muslims. And yet they roam free.``

Just so that I get this right...

Hindvi is the same low-life that was extolling Dawood Ibrahim and the bombing in Bombay in 92. Right?

Any terrorist attack on an educational institution- the most sacred of sacred- is reprehensible and wrong.

#37 by pmishra2 on January 3, 2006 6:31am PT


This was an act of mindless barbarism.


So you think this had nothing to do with the jihad in Kashmir by the indigenous freedom fighters, most of whom are based in an unnamed country to the west?

Thank you for the personal information about Dr. Puri. While there are many outstanding people who have helped advance things in india, it is still rare to read an appreciation of their persona and lives in the press (vs some wastrel politicians life story).

We should keep our sniping about problems in kashmir and elsewhere out of here. This was an act of mindless barbarism. There cannot be any justification for it, so let us not sully the memory of this dynamic and inspiring individual with all these issues that have nothing to do with him. I personally will try to live upto his example in any small way that I am capable of.

#34 by dost-mittar on January 3, 2006 6:05am PT

Provocation? You mean like your own friend and a good prof being killed by the jihadis...

free refills on the kool-aid?

#31 by hindvi on January 3, 2006 3:04am PT


Pal here is a time line for you: In your life time you will see a solution of the problem that will raise your BP no matter what spin you put on it.


Yup..The pakis will control Indian KAshmir...Pigs will fly..etc etc..


And you expect me to reveal the location of my family?


My zip code is 22033 in Virginia, USA..Now you wouldn`t have a problem with posting the city you`re in, right...seeing as how you`ve claimed the right to comment based on your own geographical location...

There`s a greater chance of you flying a plane into my place of work than there is of me doing anything to you..



And please don’t leave your day job to become a macroeconomist or social scientist.


Of course, jihadis can keep their day jobs and do jihad in their spare time...code in the morning...boom boom at night..


Chow


Unless you`re hungy, that`s Ciao..

I thank everyone for reading my tribute to a friend. I would request Aslan (gujju?) and arjun-m to ignore any provocations and not turn this board into another acrimonious debate. Thanks, again.

Nasah saheb, I am glad to see you back and to know that you were able to visit your beloved Delhi once again, even though you must be saying all the time, ``ab vo dilli vo dilli ki galliyaan kahan!``.

Does hindvi have some information, the general public and police does not, that Prof. Puri was killed by jihadis to advance their cause in J&K? Why haven`t they declared it, if so?

Aslan miaN -- pleeeze no sweeping generalizations about the ``Indian Muslims`` -- with a name like Aslan you definitely seem to have an axe to grind against the ``Indian Muslims``.

``Indian Muslims`` -- ``Indian Muslims`` -- what about ``Indian Hindus``. Can U Show chowk YOUR license of Patriotism -- even a fake one.

Indian Kashmir is going nowhere except staying where it is right now -- the pre 1953 status will be the best India can do for ``Self Rule`` -- minus the army -- minus the militancy -- with a visaless LOC -- Hindvi or no Hindvi...

...shooting Puris is not going to save the Kashmiriat from self-destruction -- which is otherwise thriving in markets all over Delhi -- doing brisk business .....mostly Kashmiri Muslim owned....

..... and that will be the ``solution of the problem`` in anybody`s liftime....

Pal here is a time line for you: In your life time you will see a solution of the problem that will raise your BP no matter what spin you put on it. Sorry, if this doesn’t satisfy your punch card sensibilities.

And you expect me to reveal the location of my family? Are u related to Togadia, by any chance? You would make a great stand up.

Here is some gratuitous advice: Get a life outside of the net, India’s galactic victory doesn’t rely on your cyber skills. After a life time of posting you have done your bit, the amount of hours you are putting in just aint healthy.

And please don’t leave your day job to become a macroeconomist or social scientist.

Chow

There is obviously a great dichotomy between the beliefs and perception of Indian muslims with regard to their country and that of rest of the people of India. Reading what Hindvi writes only confirms the same. I dont see the nationalism or the sense of belonging that an average non-muslim Indian has , in Hindvi`s writing.

#28 by hindvi on January 3, 2006 2:09am PT

So no timeline for your grand predictions? color me surprised...


why dont you check where I am logged in from?


At this time where there`s hardly anyone logged in, I could do that...

but since you`re the one who claims a right to comment on the situation because of your closeness to ground-zero, it`s incumbent upon you to tell us where you`re at...I`m in the good old US of A...your turn..

arjun here is a reality check for u, there is a whole wide outside of your coding center, in this world the Kashmiris are more concerned about Pakistan cutting and running than they are of the conflict continuing. This shows a level of comitment that you will never be capable of.

and whiz why dont you check where I am logged in from?