Reinventing Pakistan: The Rise of The Left

#90, Mantolives {``Salim Chauhan is a brilliant sophist and we admire him for that. ``}

Manto Bhai,
Et tu Mantus!

Definition of sophist (noun): teacher of philosophy; quibbler; employer of fallacious reasoning

Yasser,
You have been branding me a sophist for some time now. I thought a Sophist as someone from Sophia and because some of my family comes from Bulgaria, I didn`t mind that too much. Now, it appears that you are either calling me a teacher, a quibbler, or employer of fellatio raisins. Now that is fallacious and malicious, not to mention atrocious and obnoxious, in addition to being ludicrous and ridiculous - all leading to the same silly sextumvirate forum in Rome.

Now, I have no idea what a quibbler is - probably someone who cobbles together quilts. I hope it`s not someone who just makes a fuss over little things. Regardless, sir, please declare your true intentions for I am prepared to take off the glove.

#83, behram1 {``But absolutely NO to this reunification crap that you seem to be stuck on.

BTW....where did that Junnah article go? Is there any sense to where these artciles go once they are taken off the front page? ``}

Behram Bhai,
I knew that you would disagree. Instead of the one big sugarcane, you want to chop it up into little ganDeriaaN. :)

As for dead articles that disappear from the front page? Yes, they go to FP heaven, where Uncle Temporal and his gang of plagiarists take the useful information from the authors and prominent interactors, such as yourself, and publish the whole shbanag as their own works, thus realizing all the royalties.

Now, do you see why I don`t write on FP?

ahmedmadanai you look like a maulvi, an agent of feudal thugs, whose job is to deceive people.

You are very religious person, and you knew that Islam discourages all this ``haram`` kind of business like stock market, real estate and interest based bank loans etc.

Now you are speaking in the favour of REAL ESTATE MAFIA of Pakistan , who is grabbing every free green belt, public library, hospital, women`s club, heritage building,.. parks,..mountains and forests of Patriata (new Murree) and mountains of Marghalla..and green belts of Gilgit,..and green belts of Chitral,..and green belts of all cantonmenrs from Gilgit to Karachi.....etc..etc..

What`s the guarantee of investments in Pakistan,..children of police seargent Zahoor Elahi with balck glasses are masters of Pakistan,..bullies,grabbers, gangsters, and qabza groups of all areas of Pakistan are now representing Muslim League of barrister Mr Jinnah,...

Think about That how thiefs of yesterday became industrialists,property holders and members of General Zia`s assemblies,..man with ungentlemanly scary moustache.,..

What happened to Taj company investments,..why KSE goes up every second day and then crashes,..

Who froze our dollar ( and your japanese Dallars) accounts???

Remember that Pakistan is heading towards a civil war, if any thing happens to General Musharraf,..or Economist Shaukat Aziz ,..then the down ward crash will be of historical nature,..

Institutions are dead long time ago, ..and country is being governed by two people who are hiding for their own lives in their bullet proof cars and VVIP planes...

Are you suggesting to invest in that country,..where every law and every rule is for sale,..where constitution of the country is ripped apart every second day,..where when citizens get stay order against the Army qabza group,..and Army colonel throws that stay order on their face by saying that take this piece of crap and shove into the ass of the judge who issued it,..then he swears nakedly,..and threatens to use guns,..and then orders his people to demolish the building and occupy the land,..

Re: # 88

Ahmadzai Sahib..

I am Punjabi to the core, for:

- I am taught in Urdu
- I do my Pooja Path in Arabic
- I sing my Tarana in Farsi
- Even my AmmaN curses at me in English (you bloody fool you – bring me the Hooka)

(Is there any room for Punjabi? I guess not – Punjabi has been in decline, ever since Ranjeet left. Bring Sikha Shahi back!).

In terms of this article, it is all relative. Lefties in Pakistan would make David Duke seem like Abbie Hoffman.

#93, totally ignorant comments. What you describe as <<< ``... Pakistani stocks and future microsofts like diamonds undiscoverd in Pakistani markets, equity markets, speculation, how to pick up winners and shunn loosers and make money. Real estate investments, saudi markets, trade in Dubai, taxes, avoiding taxes`` >>> describes gains for a minute percentage of the population of Pakistan. The political economy of deprivation on the other hand, the ``reality`` that leftists have traditionally dealt with, affects the vast majority of those in Pakistan. You can live in your happy go lucky fairy tale world, but don`t condemn us to the same nincompoopish ideals as the ``India an IT miracle `` crowd.

Leftism is infantile disorder of romantic revolutionary academics and should be forgotten. Instead of such topics hope more discassion on KSE, badala, interest rates, Pakistani stocks and future microsofts like diamonds undiscoverd in Pakistani markets, equity markets, speculation, how to pick up winners and shunn loosers and make money. Real estate investments, saudi markets, trade in Dubai, taxes, avoiding taxes. What is use of left also as its no use we need money and petrol. Time has come to leave childish subjects like jinnah and Gandhi and go for real things of maney and trade and business. Leftism is for poor loosers as looser can claim all poverty is due to some body doing bad etc. We should honor left do gooder ideas like poet wan nabes etc and patt them but we should keep eyes on money. There is more money in housing than IT combined. 100 s of billions are dollars want to go in construction but rich do gooder like Cowasjee people putting obstacles in building houses so he can live nicely in his birth house but new person can not buy housing. This regulation on construction in Karachi is creating housing shortage. There should not be regulation for developments in housing. Housing is peace of gold.
Unless all leftist from outside of Pakistan are collected and banned to spread ideas of romanticism about poverty and lazyness and worshiping of poverty or attaching virtue to poverty is braeking back of pakistan. Its Indian movies industry problem and we consume that poison readily. We should have movies in which heros and heroines are rich and with good virtues and poor as bad prople and lazy and stupid then only attraction for poverty and lazyness will go. In that matter Mr.Jinnah is better than Gandhi who lived like poor to show sympathy to poor. We should have to show movies with high culture with high living . No high tech stuff its just show.
Any way all leftists of pakistan have left for antileftist white nice cultured countries and there are no lefist left but if left can be collected and exported if not can be drowned in Pakistan Arabian sea.
Pakistan is too poor and screwed county to have leftist may be when we are rich we can have some leftist but at this time no left only right thinking is right way. Hope we have no disease of left and pakistan will continue rising.
Good 2006.

Ref:#58 by arjun_m on January 5, 2006 3:56am PT
#47 by ahmedmadani on January 4, 2006 9:35pm PT


All foreign investors are thinking of investing billions of dallars.


Thinking?? That and $1.65 will get you a cop of coffee at starbucks..

Mr.Arjun KSE rise is sour grapes to you. The KSE index went from 800 to almost 10,000 is not joke. It is rising like rocket while Indian BSE is earthbound its not fault of IRP.
If you had put your earned money from slavery of white boss say 50,000 dollars they would have become almost 600,000 dollars think about that. Real pakistani does not drink coffee but nice high quality Keniyan tee, indian tea is not appreciated due to low quality when we are adequated to high quality of high mountain grown tea. Most Indian tea smuggled to Pakistan is for poor miserable afghan talibans for your information. If you had 600,000 dollars you would not be feeling jalous and envy of Pakistan economy.
So much money mostly usa dollars, japani dollars, british pounds and saudi riyal and irani toman are pouring like crazy and there are no stocks available as all foreigners have captured chunk.
Electric ( largest in asia) is brought by Hassan assocites and they have german manager- he was manager of berlin city electric co same telephone co, soon PSM and PSO has too many bidders.
If you had intelligence you could have invested money in Karachi and become rich and wealthy than just doing and doing coolie computer jobs. Still is chance to become rich and gravy train is about to start get in or stand on platform as looser.
I really doubt about IIT colleges as you as student from there does not impress. Still you can become rich by going real estate in Pakistan.
Any way you are looswer drink poor indian coffee.

Aasif...

Please don`t insult the memory of the long lost sameerjb by saying Kulharee is related to him.

Ahmadzai...

If anything Raw Dust`s post 70 is closer to the real situation ...

Salim Chauhan is a brilliant sophist and we admire him for that.

Ally at # 59:

you wrote, ``It seems from your posts that you are anti the Mohajirs and Urdu. Why should that be? You are Punjabi why are you concerned when the Original and New Sindhis are working issues out for themselves. ``

As I had expressed on another topic board, I doubt that Salim and Kulharee (Feroze Kutabshahi?) are of Pakistani origin. For once, the topics they seem to discuss at great lengths are foreign to Mohajirs and Punjabis alike.

For instance, Salim discusses the topic of stranded Pakistanis at length. Now what is the probability that a sunni Pakistani Muslim carrying surname of Punjabi converted from Sikh background, married to a Shia Turkish girl, living in Turkey, would talk about that issue? Talk to Mohajirs and you find that only a small fraction of Biharis (now supporting a non-existent break-away faction of MQM) talk about stranded Pakistanis at lengths of cursing and abusing all Pakistanis.

And Punjabis - I am yet to meet a Punjabi who would be anti-Urdu. All Pakistani gown up Punjabis speak Punjabi among themselves, Urdu with their children and English with their dogs.

Other than that, I respect both Salim and Kulharee a lot. The latter only for he likes Heavy Metal. :-)

Salim and Kulharee (Feroz Kutabshahi?):

You are dealing with the language issue of Pakistan under wrong assumption that human mind, like a PC hard disk, is limited in size and is only capable of storing limited information. The truth is that human mind grows exponentially when more and more information is fed to it. Few points:

1. Many Pakistanis, especially Pakhtoons (working as taxi drivers and laborer) in the Gulf are multilingual. They speak Urdu, Pashto, Arabic and English fluently. This proves that human mind is capable of learning many languages.

2. An over-whelming majority of Pakistanis is bilingual and some are even trilingual. All Pakistanis can speak their regional language plus Urdu. Urdu Speaking themselves are bilingual in the sense that they can speak at least one additional language if they reside in the NWFP, Punjab, Balochistan or interior Sindh. The urban Urdu speakers of Sindh, being educated, can also speak English. Therefore, they are also bilingual.

3. Urdu has been accepted as lingua franca, because all provinces have no problems communicating in that language. In the NWFP, where Pashto is very strong, Urdu advertisements run prolifically during prime TV view time. You try running a Punjab advert and all hell brakes loose.

4. Economically speaking too, more the languages you know the better it is. Knowing more languages gives you competitive edge in jobs. So instead of suggesting that we limit the languages, I would suggest quite the contrary. Pakistanis should not only learn Urdu, a regional language, English, but also perhaps one more international language of their choice.

5. Just fyi, the literacy rate of Hunza region of Pakistan is 100%.

Salim at # 74:

Salam and Namastay.

You have claimed that the left in Pakistan turned into Islamic Jihadis. Wow! Now this is originality and creativity par excellence.

The Jihadis, my dear friend, came from the Islamic parties, not from the communist or socialist left. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan simply broke the back of leftists like Wali Khan of the NWFP, General Shroff Marri and Achakzai of Balochistan and the socialists of Punjab in general.

The leftists generally did not leave for any foreign countries, they just went into oblivion. Some of them expected new life from President Musharraf post 9/11. Having failed in obtaining that, they have turned to nationalism.

Kulharee #63:
``In Pakistan the literacy rate is hovering somewhere between 3% to 19%``

here you go again. 3-9% may be the literacy rate for some rural areas in pakistan. Urban sindh much higher. As our good friend raw_dust pointed out, urdus in punjab are bilingual. Same is the case for ppl settled in the saraiki belt and rural sindh. They are bilingual, PERIOD. Another thing that conveniently forget is karachi is not gujaranwala or kasoor where just one linguistic group dominates. Amongst karachiites even the so called muhajirs (toRaas) are not a monolith. There is sizeable portion of kutchi/memoni, gujarati speaker mohajirs. Quite a few those who have been there much before the partition and should not lumped together; e.g. parsis.

``since it is only spoken by Mohajirs (only 8% of the population). ...``

As far as subjects being taught in the native language then refer to salim`s interact. In urban sindh it is mainly english (math, science, social studies etc.) and urdu (islamiat, urdu, riyazi, muashirati uloom etc) and in rural sindh it is sindhi for these very subject I assume it is sindhi. What exactly is your problem? Please, acquaint yourself with the percentage of people who speak and understand urdu across pakistan. For better or worse it has become the lingua franca of pakistan from a mainly urban phenomenon. All pakistanis must be given credit for this and none more so than our punjabi brethren who have promoted it to new heights. Urdu is changing and so is punjabi. The new generation can speak and understand 2 or more of the languages of pakistan and the trend will continue. Just look at your brave and fearless leader musharraf. Here you have a toRa schooled in lahore, born in dehli, speaking urdu with a very AIVY accent. A new identity and language is being formed as we speak, quite literally. So go on sulk..

P.S. Are you related to sameertb, by any chance?

Rsridhar,
The situation you described is lamentable but this is not an individual act not supported by the government in Pakistan in fact the track record of minorities in Pakistan is better then many ‘secular countries’ and so-called ‘secular countries’ . Yes, our track record is not perfect and lot has to be done (changes in Hadood Ordinance and bits and pieces) and yes I agree ‘we are hypocritical’
Rsridhar Bhai Sahib, I am not into blame games but your country’s track record of victimizing minorities is a ‘legend’ and to top it all up victimization is supported by government institutions.

re:#77 by IAliBirmingham
Talking of hypocrisy, there is no place where this art is practised so well as in Pakistan. As
hindu girls are abducted, converted forcibly in one part of Pakistan, the Paki rulers are trying to show the benign face of Pak by inviting India`s PM MMS to visit Pakistan during the upcoming cricket tour of India as this link reveals.
Sridhar

Re #75:

Salim Bhai:

And I am also { seriously agreeing with you and disagreeing with you in your message.}

Yes to {...for the absolutely necessary reunification with India, Pakistanis will need to speak ``furfur`` English. :) } But absolutely NO to this reunification crap that you seem to be stuck on.

BTW....where did that Junnah article go? Is there any sense to where these artciles go once they are taken off the front page?

Respectfully submitted,