Reinventing Pakistan: The Rise of The Left

the article answered a few questions
the point that partition had more of a leftist then a rightist hand behind it is valid .....
and so is the growing rise of the left
do u think the english papers wud have been less bold if more pakis could read english or afford the english paper......

Saima Shah -- the Left is indeed on the rise -- today it`s Chile`s turn -- Chile elected a new president a leftist and a WOMAN!

Ms. Saima Shah:

You wrote:

``In Pakistan a couple of years ago when Daniel Pearl tried to listen and present the terrorist point of view, they cut off his head. ``

Although no one can condone the heinous crime, I think the killing can also be attributed to the high risk that investigative cum adventure journalism carries. A young American journalist was killed by mob in Somalia and a Palestinian journalist was similarly killed by US military in Iraq.

There have been many other journalists who might have died while performing their jobs in the field.

However, one life, not a journalist though, that I really mourn when I plan on joining a wildlife mission, is that of Diana Fossi. You would recall she was trying to save Gorillas and was killed by poachers.

#110, Behram Bhai,
In my long life, I have spent 10 years in Karachi, over 14 in the US, and less than 1 year in Turkey. Most of my time in thew US was spent in the South and lastly, I grew up in several places in Karachi - Garden East, Sindhi Muslim, and Gulshan. How about you?

Please tell me why you are having your Haroon Elahi look for agricultural land near Lahore for growing sugarcane? Are you predicting another bout with your loving neighbors?

Reply #103:

Dear Salim_Chauhan:

Thanks for letting us know that you are 25 years old. That makes 1980 your birth year, an era when Mohajirs` hate filled agenda was rampant. And then you stayed in Karachi until 1990. You saw all the turbulent years of Karachi. One last thing: which neighborhood you belonged to? All of this gives a perspective, that`s all.

Remember, in one of the earlier posts, you asked me where I grew up etc., and I responded to almost all the details that you expected, and then you did not generate any further question.

One thing that surprises me is that you are a shia. I have never met a shia who is a supporter of MQM. I have to study about MQM to have an idea whether this is a true statement.

{I have been all over the US, including Uppa US.} Now, Salim, I was just asking where your schooling was, and where did you consider home. Travelling all across US in such a short time is one thing, but actually knowing the people of the city you lived in is totally different. And then how long have you been in Turkey? That just leaves you with less than ten years or so in the US.

Not much time in the US. That is not to say that you are not knowledgeable or gifted in the gift of gab. You are awesome.

Nevertheless, I shall enjoy reading your posts,

Respectfully submitted,

#107, you write <<< Nice white people have few but dark skinned african jungli have many many children is it true. That way they are doing leftish agenda like in Pakistani >>>

I wont deal with the ignorance displayed in the rest of your post, but this statement is the most outrageously ignorant and racist in its contention that you`ve made so far. How you mix this statement with the ``left`` is equally baffling. The ``nice white people`` you talk about are not as ``nice`` if you`re referring to the American elite, most of whom are white males. They are slaughtering innocents by the hundreds of thousands around the globe by their decisions~ in my opinion they are jungli barbarians. African Americans on the other hand are victims of their system that either imrprisons them, forces poverty upon them, or segregates them, both in terms of residence and economic opportunity. They are not jungli, the ones who force marginalized existence upon them, as a group, are the jungli and most of them are ``nice white people`` of the American power elite.

Good article overall, but the beginning is confusing. Why was a separate county required to answer the philoshical questions which have been baffling humanity since it came into being?

The central agenda is political power...who controlls the means of production and how the fruits are shared!

Similarly, saying that science was serving the left or the right, is not a correct analysis. Science serves whosoever is holdng the whip.

It is good to know that left is not finished in Pakistan, in fact it can never be wiped out from anywhere....everywhere there will be and are people who think beyond themselves....call them messihas, sufis, revolutionaries or left, and their presence is mandatory whether in power or in the opposition or just working queitly without any labels among people.

Power can corrupt even people who call themselves left, which happened in USSR and east europe, but that does not mean that it was failure of the ideology.

Congratulations and all the best to the leftists of Pakistan.

106 by masadi on January 7, 2006 0:04am PT
#105, you state <<< That is problem of left they subsidise bad and lazy behaviour of poor people by helping and poor res;pond with making more babies >>>

This is a baseless and ignorant allegation. If the political economy of a nation is not distributing wealth in equitable ways so that there are hardly any social services, little education and healthcare, and the only work people can find if any is manual labor~ these more than anything else are causes of a bigger population or as you put it ``making more babies``. The population explosion is not a personal choice, not a country specific problem but a global issue and distributional equality as most ``leftists`` atleast talk about would result in the exact opposite of what you are suggesting.

What you recommend has, throughout the history of Pakistan, not only increased inequality by lining the pockets of a few, it has not put a brake on ``making more babies`` either- and that is independent of any ``leftist`` intervention.

Response#106 Dear Mr. Masadi........ I have heard same problem is all over world. People who least afford crank out babies like there is no tomorrow. I have heard same thing happening in country of africa or India and others also. See all over world rich people do not produce too many people. Mr. Jinnah was rich man he went though two wifes both dead but only one strike. Mr. Rajiv gandhi very rich but only two children. Mr. Bush only two daughter and one son ( i am not ure), Gulam Mustafa Khar rich man Lion of Punjab only one child per wife. General Musharaff only two children but all drivers of all these great men have atleast 8 childrens. Most Kashmiris are damn poor as earthquake showed but all have minimum dozon/2 childre. Dark skinned aftricans produce more as they are poor. Poor feel god has given them so he blames others and after wards GOP for his poverty. China is more reducing poverty by adopting 1 baby policy. We have too many people so there is more crime. Most rich people do not snatch cells but only poor are involved in this left program of looting rich people. Presently these poor people are looting rich and decent and hardworking people producing( breeding) babies like rabbits ormices. Rich controls his family size as he thinks about responsibility. While poor produce babies and then blame GOP. Now how much foreign or Gop provide as the tent needed is too big for earthquake victim as he has 8 children as an average. If some bodies sisiert or brother has too many babies the brother and sister do not go out and help irresponsible people why citizens should be punished for poor baby producing machines. These poor people by their unrestrained sex advanture are becoming problem. I have heard same stuff in USA. Nice white people have few but dark skinned african jungli have many many children is it true. That way they are doing leftish agenda like in Pakistani. Be irresponsible and crank out babies and punish light breeder type people. Left like poor as they have hell of good time for voting which rich feel so depressed he does not voter, the buy left leaders afterwards. According to you all poor doing crime is ok as they are pooshing left agenda of distribution.
Anyway thanks, you can be right

I think Indian cricket team has no chance. Specially with ``pidi Express`` will steam roll poor indians like warmacht blitcriz. Express is going to cut indians to size.

#105, you state <<< That is problem of left they subsidise bad and lazy behaviour of poor people by helping and poor res;pond with making more babies >>>

This is a baseless and ignorant allegation. If the political economy of a nation is not distributing wealth in equitable ways so that there are hardly any social services, little education and healthcare, and the only work people can find if any is manual labor~ these more than anything else are causes of a bigger population or as you put it ``making more babies``. The population explosion is not a personal choice, not a country specific problem but a global issue and distributional equality as most ``leftists`` atleast talk about would result in the exact opposite of what you are suggesting.

What you recommend has, throughout the history of Pakistan, not only increased inequality by lining the pockets of a few, it has not put a brake on ``making more babies`` either- and that is independent of any ``leftist`` intervention.

#96 Mr. Alert....... Please calm down and do not speculate about me. I am nice decent person not religious nut but moderate religious person and feel there is money in housing more than anything specially in Karach. I do not care what they do outside karachi. Karachi is peace of gold and no harm in taking advantage if one has some money. It is no loose proposition. No body can become real rich without land and little real estate. Stll there is ots of land which can be value added and can result in multistoried building like Amerika, europe, canada etc. Once desalination plant comes on line Karachi can be independently rich like singapore or hongkong. Once there is abundant water it can zoom to 40 million people without problem with modern skyscrapers and modern transportation. All development will be verical mostly.
I am for marathon races even mixed also but only then runner woman and man allowed. It not showed to people as people are not decent, to some extent and then men look at woman and woman look at men is not purpose. On TV if they want to show thay can show dots moving. I am education but not mixed type stuff . Seperaten schools for boys and girls. In nice advanced white countries rich select go to one gender schools and awam go to mixed type giving bad results as they taught sex education and subsidise bad behaviour by giving rubber and contraceptives. Any thing you subsidizes it success beyond imagination and subsidies are more required. Like they hhelp india poor with cheap , food and govt stuff so they have more poors to have more subsidies. That is problem of left they subsidise bad and lazy behaviour of poor people by helping and poor res;pond with making more babies. So we have too many babies so we need houses so controlling housing construction is not right. You have choice control baby numbers or let developers do whaterver they want.

You point is correct about religious objection to these things but you can do something when you have crossed brigde to prosperity denote some money for ppor to compensate for violating regigious rules. Rule braking is ok if you pay fine and help govt so they can subsidise for poor people addition numbers.

Good day and have good happy things for change.

ahmadzai #87, {``The leftists generally did not leave for any foreign countries, they just went into oblivion. Some of them expected new life from President Musharraf post 9/11. Having failed in obtaining that, they have turned to nationalism.``}

Ahmadzai,
Thanks for correcting my remarks about leftists absconding to foreign countries or turning into Jihadists. Your explanation makes more sense, certainly in the case of our brilliant young jingoist barrister from Lahore.

#99, Behram {``Actually, Salim himself has said many times that he is a Shia, and left Pakistan at the age of 10 years, and have never returned in the last 20 years. That puts his age close to 30 years old. So at age 10, he got indoctrinated in the MQM violent politics. I have yet to understand where he stayed in the US. All indications suggest that he might have lived in Chicago. ``}

Behram Sohrabji Rustamji,

Yes, I am Shia and yes I left Pakistan at the age of 10, over 15 years ago, making me all of 25 years of age. Yes, I support MQM when I think it is doing the right thing. I have been all over the US, including Uppa US.

Now, what the hell does all this have to do with the left in Pakistan. I still suggest that they have all become Tally Bans and are hiding in caves.

#100, Behram {``Either just continue to shine as you want to and let others define you, or you can define yourself and show who you are and nobody else will define you. ``}

Behram Sohrabji Rustamji,

Dost-e-man, what do you want to see, a frikkin shijrah? I accepted you at your word and never asked for your affidavit from Mama Parsi Girls High School.

#88, ahmadzai {``An over-whelming majority of Pakistanis is bi ... and some are even tri ...``}

Ahmadzai,
Now, that seems to be a regional problem. Please don`t take the Pathans` peculiar and multi-faceted inclinations and ascribe them to the rest of Pakistan. :)

Dear Salim Bhai:

In my latest edition of the Webster dictionary, ``sofist`` is defined as:

``1. any of a class of ancient Greek teachers of philosophy, rhetoric, etc., noted especially for ingenuity and speciousness in argumentation. 2. a person who reasons adroitly and speciously rather than soundly.``

Then, I went searching for the meaning of the word ``specious``, which is defined as

``1. apparently true or right though lacking real merit; not genuine. 2. deceptively attractive.``

Now, Salim Bhai, honestly Manto is absolutely correct in describing you. Please see my Post #99, to Ahmadzai, in which we remain absolutely puzzled to your post.

So, you have two paths...Either just continue to shine as you want to and let others define you, or you can define yourself and show who you are and nobody else will define you. Regardless, I will contnue to enjoy your posts,

Respectfully submitted,

Reference #89:

Dear ahmadzai:

I see that there is some predicament is understanding Salim Ahmed Chauhan, when you ascribe on him the following

{a sunni Pakistani Muslim carrying surname of Punjabi converted from Sikh background, married to a Shia Turkish girl, living in Turkey, would talk about that issue?}

Actually, Salim himself has said many times that he is a Shia, and left Pakistan at the age of 10 years, and have never returned in the last 20 years. That puts his age close to 30 years old. So at age 10, he got indoctrinated in the MQM violent politics. I have yet to understand where he stayed in the US. All indications suggest that he might have lived in Chicago. Also, what is his education?

For me, Salim is a dear friend, and I enjoy his sophistry quite a bit. My love for his writing skills increases every time I read his post. Hopefully one of these days, I will have the honor of knowing where is he actually coming from.

Until then you and I and the rest of us shall remain in suspense,

Respectfully submitted,