Ideological Perceptions and Death of Civilisation

Some of you might have seen the following statement. Others may consider it as one point of view. Being concise, it deserves to be reproduced here for your convenience:

From

Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Chahla Chafiq

Caroline Fourest

Bernard-Henri Levy

Irshad Manji

Mehdi Mozaffari

Maryam Namazie

Taslima Nasreen

Salman Rushdie

Antoine Sfeir

Philippe Val

Ibn Warraq

``After having overcome fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism, the world now faces a new global totalitarian threat: Islamism.

We, writers, journalists, intellectuals, call for resistance to religious totalitarianism and for the promotion of freedom, equal opportunity and secular values for all.

Recent events, prompted by the publication of drawings of Muhammad in European newspapers, have revealed the necessity of the struggle for these universal values.

This struggle will not be won by arms, but in the ideological field.

It is not a clash of civilisations nor an antagonism between West and East that we are witnessing, but a global struggle that confronts democrats and theocrats.

Like all totalitarian ideologies, Islamism is nurtured by fear and frustration.

Preachers of hatred play on these feelings to build the forces with which they can impose a world where liberty is crushed and inequality reigns.

But we say this, loud and clear: nothing, not even despair, justifies choosing darkness, totalitarianism and hatred.

Islamism is a reactionary ideology that kills equality, freedom and secularism wherever it is present.

Its victory can only lead to a world of injustice and domination: men over women, fundamentalists over others.

On the contrary, we must ensure access to universal rights for the oppressed or those discriminated against.

We reject the ``cultural relativism`` which implies an acceptance that men and women of Muslim culture are deprived of the right to equality, freedom and secularism in the name of the respect for certain cultures and traditions.

We refuse to renounce our critical spirit out of fear of being accused of ``Islamophobia``, a wretched concept that confuses criticism of Islam as a religion and stigmatisation of those who believe in it.

We defend the universality of the freedom of expression, so that a critical spirit can exist in every continent, towards each and every maltreatment and dogma.

We appeal to democrats and free spirits in every country that our century may be one of light and not dark.``

Author is too narrowly focused on too small a period of human history. The span of this article mostly ranges between WW2 and 2006.

People like Fukuyama who talk about ``end of history`` are not thinkers, they are merely propaganda brigade of a particular ideology - in this case the western civilization. They want to condition their populations into thinking that they are the ultimate civilization and no further progress or alternative is possible.

To suggest that we have achieved the highest point of human thinking is to suggest the end of human evolution. It is to suggest the end of progress. Argument like these are regressive and suggest the lazy intellect that typically seeps into a civilization on a decaying course.

Humans will always evolve, for good or for bad. It is a genetic trait embedded in human DNA and no account of ``liberal democracy`` can change that.

WaleedShah #7

`` It is nothing else but all about COMPLETE global dominance. One nation or race leading every other country, one nation or race controlling the rest of the world not only economically but also relegiously and cultrually. One world, one economy, one culture and one set of ideas. I see a clear alliance between Europe and USA in trying to achieve this goal. I will quote a very recent example. ``

What is USA and Europe going to do controlling the world ? They cannot even control the flow of illegal immigrants into their own borders.

`` Cartoons against Prophet Muhammad & Islam (sulla Allah ho Alayhay wasalam) were printed in Denmark and there was no statement issued against them by the US. Iran published cartoons glorifying suicide bombing against israel and within hours of them being published, there were statements issued AGAINST them. ``

No one was physically killed by the publication of cartoons. People die in suicide bombings.
You mention USA issued statements against Iran. They could nuke Iran.

`` The success and faliure of the system is evidant by the rise in number of crimes and criminals within those societies. UK for example; 7 month old baby molested and photographed by a baby sitter and her boyfriend. A black kid beaten to death because he was not white. Teenagers kicking a random person in the head as if it was a football and killing him in the process only because they wanted to have some fun. Abortions, teen pregnancies and the list goes on. ``

petty crime exists in most societies.

`` As far as FREEDOM in USA is concerned, they are not free. They live an illusion of freedom and in reality they are slaves to their own system. Credit history, Credit Ratings and what can having a bad credit history and rating can do to you will explain the slavery they suffer *happily*. ``

I do not have to borrow a loan to buy a house. I can choose to rent my whole life. I may the freedom to do it. It might not be the most prudent thing to do financially.

All semitic religions ( and especially islam ) are not based on rationality. They are all total hocus pocus. Total BS. Allow me to explain.

If GOD is described as somebody who creates life itself then I don`t understand how some some abstract ( unreal ) moron can be described as God as is done in the semitic religions.

The ancient Egytians, Greeks and Romans had the perfect interpretation of the concept of GOD.

As far as humans are concerned, there is absolutely no other celestial object other than what is called SUN that is responsible for creating life. LIFE as we know and see is created by SUN. Period. I mean, think about it. Our mother earth is located absolutely in such a thin sliver of band which has literally the statistical probablity of zero. Imagine how many planets are there in the universe. Now out of so many, and in such a large empty space, what are the chances for a planet to be located in such a perfect spot closer to a major source of energy. And this spot is such that we don`t get overly burnt or overly cold ( like other planets are ). Ancient religions had figured these facts so beautifully. Rationality was hallmark of ancient religions.

Semitic religions have absolutely no place in human development and the more these religions are ridiculed and undermined, the better it is for human progress.

I know I know when the West will fade away Islam will take over......like the night following the day....

Re: # 19 by kamath

``Just go near any consulate of `Godless West` and watch how long the line of visa seekers is. It is atleast a block long - waiting since 6AM everyday.
Do you have any explanations why all these sould want to migrate to `Godless West`?``

It was in the same way, i.e., by migration en masse from Mecca, which they call `Hijrat, that they dominated Madina and then what not. It were the Jews who had posed a meaningful resistence to the onslaught then and it is they who would perhaps do the same now. As for te west in general they have yet even to realize what the insidious danger is posed by the so called Islamic radicals entreched in their midst. As for their infight of the Muslims they have been indulging in it since day one and it only helped them to warm up their blood. In their tribal ferocity they had even murdered the grandson of the prophet and they are even today targetkiling his progeny in the so called Pakland. The west being devoid of any positive ideological footing can hardly understand and meet this challenge. The blunder Bush committed in attacking Sadam, the most liberal of rulers in the Middle East, just for oil, is an ample proof of lack of their understading of the seriousness of the danger posed by the radical terrorists.

What is Islam`s contribution to the life that we lead today?
Seriously.
(Please don`t quote Arabian Mathematicians or l-Khwarzimi, it is an obsolete logic.

Discounting West just because they support Jews and Islam/Jewish loggerheads is plain stupid.
We use Internet, banking, finance and everything else that goes around us in the world, is of Western World`s gift, not Islamic or Indian or Chinese or anything else. Period.

Western civilization, last I checked has never fallen since the times of Greeks. It was passed on from Greeks to Romans to Goths to the modern day Europeans. But the same concepts of DEMOS, Senates and REpublica have survived and prospering.
Hitler, NApolean etc were not aligned with Western Civilizations but rather, were enemies of the Western World and the West eventually won. Same goes for Turkish Empire or Arab conquests.

Your logic, purely from academic and logical perspectives lack merit.

Your love of Islam and Shariat and the will to see Islam everywhere is your rationale and frankly is not enough.

Usman Khan Yaar!

``...Islamic fundamentalism in fact has many of the ingredients that make it a complete ideology. ....``

Just go near any consulate of `Godless West` and watch how long the line of visa seekers is. It is atleast a block long - waiting since 6AM everyday.
Do you have any explanations why all these sould want to migrate to `Godless West`?

have you heard the chant? ``. Go home Umrika. But please take me too with you-..`` Right yaar? Inshallah!

Kamath

Re: # 1

Wait, wait Mister:
Did I read you correctly? ``...For the sake of humanity, let`s pray that the `Godless` West wins! ..``

You are not only one who has that wish. I was praying for exactly the same for the past decades!

Kamath

Re: # 14-
``ran, Pakistan etc.........and these islamic states have to go down if America has to make any dent on people who write such stupid articles................. `` (ballukhan)..

when russia couldn`t disintegrate and resultantly capture the warm waters of pakistan..y is america under a notion that it is easy for her to strip pakistan of every potential alongwith injected viruses of unrest and economic fluctuations and unemployment would make is susceptible and vulnerable to disintegration..

vietname..a nuclear club member..?? NO..but superpower..came out of the quagmire with bundles of wooden boxes..
History can and would repeat itself..

Re: # 1-VOICE OF GOD - PRAYERS UNANSWERED..go back from whence u came..

Chowk Staff-

I can sense a very perceptible tilt in the type of articles that are getting published on Chowk now.......most of them contain Islamist rhetorics...........this did not happen before..................................Is it perchance or something that reflects the latest editorial policies................

``Muslim on the whole are turning back to their religion in a sort of Islamic Resurgence and 9/11 has only acted as a catalyst for this change. ``

It is a good idea to let the steam out of this Islamist wave..........it will die out only when all the so called Islamic republics return to secularism................which is only possible in case of Pakistan with an American danda....................the biggest supporters of this clash of civilization theory from the Islamist side are these Islamic republlic like Iran, Pakistan etc.........and these islamic states have to go down if America has to make any dent on people who write such stupid articles.................

Muslims are nothing more than traditional norms of beliefs established hundreds of years ago with the notions to be good humans in every civilization. It would be a weak argument to state western interests could be suppressed by these defiles practisers of a religion which itself is unacceptable with slightest variations amongst themselves. There is no political leadership of Islam that Muslims can rely upon to safeguard their rights as an Ummah. The western system lacks immoderation of any religion block that Muslims only need to claim themselves under tree. There is no power relationship among muslin countries except blind faith towards criteria of life which they don’t even let to propagate with time. There is collision without any argument which starts right from looking at western system then trying to comprehend each other.
It would take a lot of time and true elucidation if the defense of so called Muslim Being is justified as code of life which could be acceptable diffusion in societies.
The most important prospect of mutation in Islamic concept would be Islamic assertion in words and observance of mechanism that gives velocity to global autonomy.

That Islam will pose a serious challenge to the modern era which is a product of the age of enlightenment and reason is ridiculous, to say the least. Pretty much the whole world, except for Islam, has accepted the idea of civilization based on reason.

Islam is about where Christianity was in the Middle Ages, refusing to accept the inevitability of a world based on reason. Christian views then were just as obscurantist as Islamic views are now. The real danger for Islam is if it is completely taken over by radicals. It will then be treading on Nazi turf (whose no compromise talk was frighteningly similar to that of current radical Islamic talk). We all know what happened to the Nazis.

I don`t think the Western world developed such awesome defenses against Communism and vanquished it just to roll over and die in the face of militant Islam.

Why this global analysis through just a western and islamic prism? 40% of the world is neither. And this 2/5th`s namely India and China. Which will be the largest economies in the world in less than 2 generations.

One thing to keep in mind is that unlike shariah, man`s law and system evolves and changes...no chutiya 100 years from now will write that we have to steer clear of sexual derivatives on the Las Vegas Sinsex 400 because the prophet Warren Buffet disliked oral sex and had it banned as uncapitalistic.

Huh?

#9 by Suicide_bomb on February 27, 2006 2:01pm PT
I believe we are talking about the ideaology of COMPLETE GLOBAL DOMINANCE.

#7 by WaleedShah on February 27, 2006 12:49pm PT
It is nothing else but all about COMPLETE global dominance.

I believe we are talking about the ideaology of COMPLETE GLOBAL DOMINANCE. One nation or race leading every other country, one nation or race controlling the rest of the world not only economically but also relegiously and cultrually. One world, one economy, one culture and one set of ideas. I see a clear alliance between Europe and USA in trying to achieve this goal. I will quote a very recent example.

Cartoons against Prophet Muhammad & Islam (sulla Allah ho Alayhay wasalam) were printed in Denmark and there was no statement issued against them by the US. Iran published cartoons glorifying suicide bombing against israel and within hours of them being published, there were statements issued AGAINST them.

This is not a war against one relegion. They are against anything that may pose a threat towards gaining and maintaining that goal. Yes they have waged an open war against muslims but look at what great efforts have been put into defacing christianity as a relegion and a christian as a follower. Dig deep and see how many times is the pope at vatican and the scholars at haram are stepping in and issuing statements on critical world issues? Issuing a statement for world peace sounds all too repetitive now. Are the centers of these two relegions already under control? No one can say for sure!

The word free or freedom has carries alot of depth. Freedom from every boundary and every restriction, being able to do what you want when you want the way you want can be very tempting.

The success and faliure of the system is evidant by the rise in number of crimes and criminals within those societies. UK for example; 7 month old baby molested and photographed by a baby sitter and her boyfriend. A black kid beaten to death because he was not white. Teenagers kicking a random person in the head as if it was a football and killing him in the process only because they wanted to have some fun. Abortions, teen pregnancies and the list goes on.

As far as FREEDOM in USA is concerned, they are not free. They live an illusion of freedom and in reality they are slaves to their own system. Credit history, Credit Ratings and what can having a bad credit history and rating can do to you will explain the slavery they suffer *happily*.

Freemasons, complete global dominance, systematic and very organized murders of millions of Africans. Interesting subject!

It took forever in coming, but glad that the topic`s here. This is where the ultimate conflict resides - in divergent ideas for man to live by.

Hopefully, we won`t get caught up in the labels - Western or Islamic. Ideas should be examined for what they do to human beings and to human groups, not for what they are called or where they come from.

It is nothing else but all about COMPLETE global dominance. One nation or race leading every other country, one nation or race controlling the rest of the world not only economically but also relegiously and cultrually. One world, one economy, one culture and one set of ideas. I see a clear alliance between Europe and USA in trying to achieve this goal. I will quote a very recent example.

Cartoons against Prophet Muhammad & Islam (sulla Allah ho Alayhay wasalam) were printed in Denmark and there was no statement issued against them by the US. Iran published cartoons glorifying suicide bombing against israel and within hours of them being published, there were statements issued AGAINST them.

They are not against one relegion. They are against anything that may pose a threat towards gaining and maintaining that goal. Yes they have waged an open war against muslims but look at what great efforts have been put into defacing christianity as a relegion and a christian as a follower. The word free or freedom has carries alot of depth. Freedom from every boundary and every restriction, being able to do what you want when you want the way you want can be very tempting.

The success and faliure of the system is evidant by the rise in number of crimes and criminals within those societies. UK for example; 7 month old baby molested and photographed by a baby sitter and her boyfriend. A black kid beaten to death because he was not white. Teenagers kicking a random person in the head as if it was a football and killing him in the process only because they wanted to have some fun. Abortions, teen pregnancies and the list goes on.

As far as FREEDOM in USA is concerned, they are not free. They live an illusion of freedom and in reality they are slaves to their own system. Credit history, Credit Ratings and what can having a bad credit history and rating can do to you will explain the slavery they suffer *happily*.

Freemasons, complete global dominance, systematic and very organized murders of millions of Africans. Interesting subject!

the crusades in a highly distributed structure have come back to the stage. i just would like to point out one fundamental difference between the two so-called entities that you in your lo-faluting fantasies are seeing a conflict:

---

1-
The western values (Enlightenment) see Man and his relationship with the Universe as essentially in binary form. That Reality/Universe can be mastered and made subservient to Man by solely employing Man`s inherent intellect.

2-
Islam`s conception of man is rooted in Submission. Man is a vice-gerent of God (a given) and Man`s intellect is to be used to become aware of Divine and That IS the only way of Man`s salvation in the temporal and eternal domains otherwise Eternal Damnation.
God will establish Man as the ruler of the universe as Man submit himself to His awesome powers. God has made Reality subservient to Man by calling him His viceroy (vice-gerent whatever) on Earth. But for that to happen Man has to enter into this covenant with Allah Mian. Man exists not on his own but in a hierarchy of God-Prophet-Tribe(Ummah).

---

in my opinion, this difference of view creates two different languages that are completely orthogonal to each other. Given West`s massive material advantage and creeping economics coupled with Islamic Man`s Rage in seeing God`s betrayal to him - He the vicegerent is at the pits (for he and his people are being run over and his culture is taken over by the likes of Spielbergs and Rushdies) - the conflict is slowly turning into a battle for the survival of Islam. Islam will hopefully be defeated because its ideas have already been bested by the West. The question is how far the Islamic-Man is prepared to fight on his road to extinction. The extent of this War is an open question not the clash itself.

I question the fundamental assumption that the west is in favor of political freedom and liberty everywhere. Its primary concern is the establishment of free markets in which it perceives itself to be at an advantage. Political freedom may or may not be an attendant benefit and is mainly of demogogical value.

A very good and analytical introduction albeit lenghty, reduced to a funnel conclusion obsessed with `the end of history` and the clash of civilisations. Some points to ponder.
1. Africa is burning out not due to Islam or terrorism but because of AIDS and the theory of BURNOUT States. This is what the USA and Europe want.
2. Biggest competition to USA lies not in the ideologies of nomadic floating revolutionaries but with the rising economies of Europe, China, Russia and India. None of them follow the Westminister theorem of values.
3. Right now USA is thriving in a vaccum, anchored in Iraq, Afghanistan and some parts of ME. This is a transition phase and the gains not yet consolidated.
4. Has US invasion of Iraq contained or proliferated terrorism? So what was the motive?

I will pose the most sensitive issue after responses.
Cheerios

Good analysis, but the other side of the coin is that there are enough divisions within Islam that will keep it`s followers busy killing one another for the next 2 centuries. This argument of West’s negative perception of Islam is not totally well-founded because the West doesn’t see other major groupings (i.e., India, China) thru an ideological crosshair. There must be something wrong with practical political Islam – as evident in Muslim killing Muslims. Muslims are not yet lucky enough to be taken as a ``serious`` threat, but they can certainly hope to become one. The current war is being waged on terror, and not Islam. That war will have to wait a bit. Or until the oil wells dry out.

I wonder if some Darfuri Sudanese read this article, what would he/she think of big bad West?

Re: # 1

amen, sum, amen !

For the sake of humanity, let`s pray that the `Godless` West wins!

Thanks,