Balochistan Militancy -- An Insider's View

Re: #141 by Zeena

[So, where was I ? Yes, I was saying, Kashmiris and balochis are not given basic human right, so, they should have their own countries. yes, and exclusively Kashmiristan is another country in future global map. ]

Oh, she`s back!

Great!

You must have missed my last post to you. I have NO doubt about that.

As I was saying, it`s SO refreshing to see people use logic on this forum. Absolutely wonderful!

Uh...this freedom you were talking about - were you talking about HINDU Kashmiris or MUSLIM Kashmiris?

Just wanted to clarify that.

I`m trying to learn new things on this forum here. There are SO many people with such logical and righteous perspectives. It`s simply amazing.

So DO let me know.

Sincerely,

Ajeya

na mangoo sona chandi,
na mangoo heera moti
yeh mere kis kaam key....
na maangoo bangla badi
na mangoo ghoda gadi,
yeh tau hain bus naam key...
deta hai dil dey badley main dil key,
deta hai dil dey badley main dil key,
ge ge ge ge ,ge rey sahiban, pyar main sauda nahin
ge ge ge ge ,ge rey sahiban, pyar main sauda nahin

na jaanoo mulla kazi,
na jaanoo kaaba kashi,
main tau hoon prem peyara rey.....
merey sapno ki raani,
hogi tumko hairani,
main tau tera dewaana rey...
deta hai dil dey badley main dil key,
deta hai dil dey, badley main dil,
ge ge ge ge ,ge rey sahiban, pyar main sauda nahin
ge ge ge ge ,ge rey sahiban, pyar main sauda nahin

ge ge ge ge ,ge rey sahiban, pyar main sauda nahin
pyar main sauda nahin,
pyar main sauda nahin,
pyar main sauda nahin,

Further to my post at #142, let us examine what each subcontinentalite is worth in land.

Area of India :- 2,973,190 Sq.Km
Area of Pak :- 778,720 Sq.Km
Area of BD :- 133,910 Sq.Km.
......................................................
Total 3,885,820 Sq.Km

Population of subcontinent :- 1400 Million.

Land per Person :- 3,885,820 / 1400 Million

= 0.00277 Sq.Km or 2770 Sq.Metres

i.e. a land of 52 M x 52 M.

#141 ZEENA

Let us keep dividing the subcontinent in two-three-four-five nations till each one of us as an individual is a NATION. True freedom will come on that day.

#117 chowk staff
Arright, chowk staff
I won`t. Thanks for reminding us.

So, where was I ? Yes, I was saying, Kashmiris and balochis are not given basic human right, so, they should have their own countries. yes, and exclusively Kashmiristan is another country in future global map.

HP #125

`` Pakistan is not a world power. It needs to find its niche and work from there. So Pakistan FP should have limited goals. For the army, alliance with the US provides the cover that it needs. One can agree or disagree with this position but that is a realistic position from the army point of view. ``

fair enough

`` As opposed to this Indian FP for the last 60 years has been to follow some dreams starting from Punj Shella to Non aligned to now being a regional power. All dreams are always beyond the India’s economic or regional clout. That’s why its FP is a complete failure and is in a mess, lacking any realistic goals. ``

Indian foreign policy was worked by accident. It has kept India out of un-necessary wars.

`` Btw, there is nothing disingenuous in not knowing Dennis Kux. First, Aziz is not a political type so it is not necessary for him to know an analyst or a writer at all. Second, Dennis is just one talking head out of a million that have written books about South Asia. There are plenty of former state dept and the CIA types who worked the South Asia desk inside the beltway. His writing a history of Pak-US relations from the scratch papers in the State Dept does not distinguish him in a field that is full of such pseudo-intellectuals. ``

Frankly how many South Asian scholars are there in the CIA and State Department ? Their numbers are quite limited. Their domains are also limited. I doubt Michael Krepon can ever understand the full impact of outsourcing on Indo-American relations.

Layman #131

`` I think the Pak govt could have come out smelling much better from the whole Bajaur incident, if only they told the truth in the first place.

Imagine if Musharraf had said - ``Yes, it was a joint operation by US and Pak forces, acting on intelligence that Al Zawahiri was in that specific hide-out. Unfortunately, he seems to have escaped in the nick of time. We got four other minor terrorists but also unfortunately killed a lot of civilians in the attack, for which we apologize. We will do better next time. We will continue to hunt this most wanted terrorist.``

He may have had to face some heat, but it would have quickly died down, esp if he had offered compensation for the dead/injured. But Musharraf did not do that. First, his govt tried to sweep the attack under the carpet. When people protested, he/his govt was forced to `protest` with the US. Now most educated Pakistanis think that the US deliberately violated Pak sovereignty and carried out this attack without Pak permission - that is the root of the angst. No wonder the US is refusing to apologize (if the operation was with Paki govt knowledge) - for all you know it might have been Paki intelligence that led them to attack that particular place. Further, Shaukat Aziz going to the US and not seriously protesting makes Pak govt look like a US flunkey, angering people more.

It would have been better if Musharraf/Pak govt had stated the truth in the first place and also told the US - no more missile attacks as they kill innocent people as well - if we suspect terrorists are in a particular hideout, let the Pak military surround the place and take them down. As things stand, the terrorists are getting tipped off by the drones & UAVs that surveill the place a few days before the attack. The failed missile attack is another `victory` for the terrorists, since the whole of Pak is now ranged against Pak govt and the US - even Ayaz Amir is suffering from wounded pride - all due to Paki govt not telling the truth. ``

Truth is too simple for some of these clowns.

#135/136 HP

Seriously speaking, we have not seen Pakistan so all our talk is basically andherey main teer chalana.

But sometimes this kind of data comes out, then one has to think what state of affairs is there in Pakistan. The prices in Pakistan are higher by 20% ,50%, 100%. Now, to maintain the same standard of living, the salaries in Pakistan must also be higher in the same proportion, which does not appear so. To afford an LPG Cylinder of Rs.900/- , the common man in Pakistan must be earning Rs.12000-15000 minimum. But does he earn so much..I doubt. Otherwise, he is depending upon other sources of income.

#135/136 HP

Why are getting serious?? Mazaak tau samjha karo.

#134 by bolta_aaina

``The charge of Pakistanis that India is a horribly poor country seems to be correct.``

Prices reflect the market conditions. As long as Pakistanis can pay....

It is unfortunate that Indians are poor and businesses can`t make money!

#133 by bolta_aaina

...and I thought you are a reasonable person. Regret it.
Do you even know what NFC stands for?

Now look at this:

“A federal government audit has determined Sindh’s share at 46 per cent.” And what musharaf presented is about 45.2%.

I wish you guys use some head before getting excited and doing a copy paste that too from a Pakistani Paper.

These are issues between the provinces. These things are common between the Indian states too. You want me to post news reports about the River problems in India between different states too?

Why do you even waste time reading ``Dawn`` when you don`t even understand what the problem is?

Here is a free advise for you: read Indian papers and learn about India first.

The charge of Pakistanis that India is a horribly poor country seems to be correct. Look at the following news item of Dawn-20-01-2006


LPG prices to be raised
By Our Staff Reporter



LAHORE, Jan 19: LPG marketing companies have decided to once again raise LPG prices by Rs5 per kilo. Market sources said that the retail price of LPG would go up to Rs60 or kilo or so in the next couple of days. It may be recalled that the LPG prices rose to Rs65-70 a kilo on the eve of Eidul Azha on account of extremely cold weather and shortage of LPG supplies.


That means for a 15 Kg LPG Cylinder, Pakistanis are happily paying P.Rs.900/= or INR 667/=, whereas Indians cry by paying I.Rs.300/= for a 15 Kg Cylinder in India.

Wow Pakistan! The land of the fabulously rich.

A news item in Dawn, 20th Jan-2006:-

---

Sindh to benefit least from NFC formula
By Sabihuddin Ghausi

KARACHI, Jan 19: Sindh will benefit the least from the new formula of national resources distribution announced by President Pervez Musharraf on Tuesday and financial analysts estimate a gain of only 3.4 per cent in Sindh’s share of the federal tax pool.

With the tax pool projected to be about Rs725 billion by next June, the share of the provinces is being put at Rs329 billion. Sindh expects to get a little over Rs83 billion under the new formula as against over Rs81.5 billion estimated under the 1997 NFC award. The federal government is expected to collect more than Rs525 billion taxes from Sindh in the current fiscal year.

While waiting anxiously for the presidential order on distribution of resources, ministers and advisers and officials of the Sindh government remained in touch with their ‘contacts’ in Islamabad on Wednesday and Thursday to get a feel of the scheme of things under new dispensation to draw up emerging financial scenarios.

Based on hints dropped by bureaucrats in the federal finance ministry, officials in Sindh fear an actual cut in its share of the 2.5 per cent of the GST collection.

According to sources, Islamabad has indicated a change in the distribution ratio of 2.5 per cent of collected GST among the provinces. Hitherto, the federal government has been giving 62.5 per cent of the collected GST on the basis of historical octroi and zila tax collection and 37.5 per cent on the basis of population. This ratio is now being changed to 50 per cent on the basis of historical collection and 50 per cent on the basis of population.

Analysts estimate a collection of about Rs53 billion of the 2.5 per cent GST at the end of the current fiscal year. Under the 1997 NFC formula, Sindh’s share comes to more than Rs15 billion which will now drop to Rs12 billion.

Sindh has been consistently demanding its share from the GST collection entirely on the basis of historical collection of octroi and zila tax as declared by the federal government. A federal government audit has determined Sindh’s share at 46 per cent. In that case, Sindh’s actual share in the Rs53 billion will be about Rs23 billion.

The NWFP will be the biggest beneficiary of President Musharraf’s resources distribution formula followed by Punjab and Balochistan.

The president also announced the actual figures to be given to the provinces from the Rs28 billion subvention pool. Under this arrangement, the NWFP will get 35 per cent, Balochistan 33 per cent, Sindh 21 per cent and Punjab 11 per cent.

Under the 2002 resources distribution formula which was accepted by Sindh but was discarded by the Centre and Punjab, an annual subvention fund of Rs20 billion was to be instituted. This fund was to be given only to Sindh, NWFP and Balochistan. In the current formula, the size of the subvention pool has been increased to Rs28 billion but now Punjab will also be a recipient.

However, it is not clear how the subvention pool of Rs28 billion will be instituted. Will it be from the federal government’s share in the tax pool or will it be part of what is being claimed as increased share of the provinces?

Influential circles in Sindh maintain that the president’s formula is not based on consensus of elected politicians of the federal and provincial governments. According to them, it is a case of the centre imposing its will on the provinces and it is bound to create heart burnings and leave deep financial scars on Sindh economy.

Way back during late General Zia’s rule, the first NFC was formed in 1983. It did not work and was dissolved in 1985 since the population ratios of Sindh and NWFP had been slightly increased. The second NFC was constituted in 1985. In 1988, the then federal finance minister Dr Mahbubul Haq wanted to obtain signatures of the provincial finance ministers on dotted lines. It was fiercely opposed by the then caretaker chief minister Akhtar Kazi and finance minister Javed Sultan Japanwala.

With the submission of the caretaker government of Mumtaz Ali Bhutto, the 1997 NFC award carried signatures of then finance minister Kunwar Idrees, and Mr Bhurgari, the private statutory member of Sindh on the NFC. The 1997 award dealt a crippling blow to the finances of Sindh from which it is yet to recover.

Only two NFC awards have enjoyed support of the entire political leadership of the country, the 1974 NFC award during late Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s government and the 1991 award when Mian Nawaz Sharif was the prime minister. The 1991 award recognised for the first time the right of the provinces on their natural resources. That the provinces are yet to be given this right is another story.

---

chal ud ja rey panchi
key ab yeh desh hua begana

#131 by Layman

“I think the Pak govt could have come out smelling much better from the whole Bajaur incident, if only they told the truth in the first place.”

Finally some reasonable Indian!
In one of my post recently, I had mentioned that it was a joint operation and it was a matter of time before it comes out. There are lots of things that go into outright public acceptance of the joint operation. The protests are all fake and staged managed. Look at the cast and characters leading the protest.

Pakistan needs to get these foreigners out of that area and any US help is good.

These foreign terrorist pose more problems internally for Pakistan than internationally for the US. First, they can’t go anywhere so whatever they have to do is either in Afghanistan or in Pakistan. That’s why you will only see a paper protest from Pakistan.

I know some innocents may have died but one needs to ask the question: why are the tribes hiding these horrible people. If they hide them, then unfortunately there will be some collateral damage. It is bad but if the tribes allow these terrorists to roam in the streets where kids play, some bad things will happen.

What I still don’t understand is how OBL manages to smuggle audio/video tapes out and nobody has ever been able to trace the courier?
Any thoughts?

I think the Pak govt could have come out smelling much better from the whole Bajaur incident, if only they told the truth in the first place.

Imagine if Musharraf had said - ``Yes, it was a joint operation by US and Pak forces, acting on intelligence that Al Zawahiri was in that specific hide-out. Unfortunately, he seems to have escaped in the nick of time. We got four other minor terrorists but also unfortunately killed a lot of civilians in the attack, for which we apologize. We will do better next time. We will continue to hunt this most wanted terrorist.``

He may have had to face some heat, but it would have quickly died down, esp if he had offered compensation for the dead/injured. But Musharraf did not do that. First, his govt tried to sweep the attack under the carpet. When people protested, he/his govt was forced to `protest` with the US. Now most educated Pakistanis think that the US deliberately violated Pak sovereignty and carried out this attack without Pak permission - that is the root of the angst. No wonder the US is refusing to apologize (if the operation was with Paki govt knowledge) - for all you know it might have been Paki intelligence that led them to attack that particular place. Further, Shaukat Aziz going to the US and not seriously protesting makes Pak govt look like a US flunkey, angering people more.

It would have been better if Musharraf/Pak govt had stated the truth in the first place and also told the US - no more missile attacks as they kill innocent people as well - if we suspect terrorists are in a particular hideout, let the Pak military surround the place and take them down. As things stand, the terrorists are getting tipped off by the drones & UAVs that surveill the place a few days before the attack. The failed missile attack is another `victory` for the terrorists, since the whole of Pak is now ranged against Pak govt and the US - even Ayaz Amir is suffering from wounded pride - all due to Paki govt not telling the truth.