Pervez Musharraf Ko Peace Do

Re # 78

Manto,

I agree with that and like that. All the best.

ah- only time will tell... what I do or won`t do... but is it not good that I merely disagree with India and Indian hogwash through words and websites?

But I suppose you would prefer Military dictators and Maulvis who don`t stand for the constitution and who would send suicide bombers to blow up more of your countrymen...

So yes ... continue to pin your hopes on breaking up Pakistan - which is a pipe dream at best...

Shishapa...

I am glad you see the logic of the situation despite disagreement.

Incidently, the grandson of Bugti has a Ferrari, which cost the tax payer $ 600,000 and he drives it on a private track

Isn`t this a case of the pot calling the kettle black...If the bugti dude has a ferrari, the children of paki army officers have access to schools with petting zoos while average abdul has to send his kid to a saudi funded madrassah..

If Pakistan has a dismal education system, isn`t it because the military takes up a disprooprtionate amount of the budget?

A full General is worth Rs 500 million+

That`s not me...That`s Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa..

This has got to be one of the most ridiculous pieces of drivel I have ever read on Indo-Pak issues.

Sometimes i wonder if the rush to push articles out doesn`t in reality dilute research, common sense and topical knowledge required in ``journalism``.

Veeresh is absolutely correct...Musharraf and Pakistan have no leverage for demanding ``peace`` on any of their terms. In fact Pakistan cannot have peace in/with Kashmir/India as the only leverage the military has is to maintian the status quo to rationaize it`s interests in gov`t, economy, education, media etc etc.

The disparaty in the strengths and fortunes of the two countries are growing y/y and in a few years, peace will happen anyway as any artificial parity (read US support for the Pak military, pak economy, pak diplomacy) takes a back seat to global economic interests.

Dictatorship doesn`t bring clarity...bureaucracy provides consensus. Dictatorship brings unilateral approach to things. Which is not necessarily efficiency.

The question for FV is ``if tomorrow India and Pakistan sign a peace accord..what is your prognosis for the Indian democracy and Musharraf and/or Pakistani army? The system of governance, economy etc wouldn`t change in India but How would the Pak army rationalize its extrication from every facet of Pakistani life?``

Mantolives,

``If you wish to talk about Balochistan Veeresh... lets also talk about Kashmir, Punjab, Dalits, Tamils , Nagaland and the 13 other independent nations you are oppressing in India...``

Please try to be ``factual``. Otherwise it undermines the credibility of you and people might not take you seriously.. If you talk to a Tamil from India and say that how he/she is oppressed, he/she would most probably think you are crazy..

Manto yaar, I have seen what you can do and it don`t impress me much.

Let me submit another interesting counter-perspective to. Let`s say, and why not, that Indian government somehow decides to trust Musharraf and signs a peace accord with him - on whatever terms. What is the chance that there wont be another coup in Pakistan with some other tinpot replacing the current tinpot and totally reneging on the terms of the treaty? Haven`t we experienced that once, when Vajpayee the senile fool decided to trust Navaz Shareef at Lahore? Whatever came out of the Lahore declaration?

When I said me- I meant people of Pakistan who have loyalty to the country above and beyond the army or Musharraf... I thought the ``Democrats`` of the Hindutvist state would understand.

But quite the contrary its not about impressing you my dear JG... why do you suffer from such delusions of grandeur?

Masanmuthu

As many have pointed out to you- if you talk to an ordinary Pakistani Baloch and a resident of non-Bugti Balochistan- he too will tell you much the same.

But then Indians want to hear only what pleases them.

rsridhar at # 70:

``Mushy says women in Pak get raped to become rich!
Only in Pak can a ruler say this and get away with it. ``

Muharraf was criticised by all and sundry so much that he had to issue a clarification on what he had actually said. No body believed that as well.

However, it is in India that all of you can get away with this:

India loses 10m female births: Report

NEW DELHI: More than 10m female births in India may have been lost to abortion and sex selection in the past 20 years, according to medical research.

Researchers in India and Canada for the journal said prenatal selection and selective abortion was causing the loss of 500,000 girls a year.

The researchers said the ``girl deficit`` was more common among educated women but did not vary according to religion.

In most countries, women slightly outnumber men, but separate research for the year 2001 showed that for every 1,000 male babies born in India, there were just 933 girls.

“We cannot trust him!” they declaim.”

I think the premise of the article is shaky. There is no such thing as trust in individuals when it comes to international affairs and diplomacy. The thing that helps the diplomats is the rapport as in affinity between the two negotiators. That is the only thing personal in diplomacy. It does not really matter if you trust the person on the top or not. Problems between Pakistan and India are not because of Musharaf neither will they go away after he leaves.

Tell me how much trust Kennedy had in Khuroshov(sp) when US and the Soviet Union signed agreement on Cuba. What kind of trust Roosevelt and Stalin had between them when they signed the Malta accord? Anyone believing that trust between the leaders is the first requisite in dealing with a state, is a total dunce and has not idea about the international relations.

Pakistan and India have signed many agreements during the last 50 years and there is no report of any violation by either side. The water treaty has some problems but that too is being worked out. So both states have a history of adhering to agreements that they signed with each other.

In fact people inside Pakistan have more cause to not trust Musharaf than countries outside. Do not trust Musharaf has no legs as Indian state would be dealing with the Pakistan State and as I said above there is no history of breaking agreement on both sides.

“Every two-bit commentator is saying this about the head of the government of a nation.”

It is apparent that the Indian media is full of two bit commentators. Most of them don’t even understand the issues and try to write about things from the Indian government perspective so much for the independent thinking and opinion making. Most of Indian columnists in major newspapers are on the take like some of them are in Pakistan. How much trust can you put on people of low intelligence and the money grabbers?

(If anyone thinks that Indian journalists are all peachy then they are making a serious mistake. There are plenty of gold diggers out there too.)

``I meant people of Pakistan who have loyalty to the country above and beyond the army or Musharraf``

How does your having loyalty to Pak or not concerns India? What will India gain if someday all the people like you decide to be friends of India? First of all that is unlikely to happen; second of all even if that happens by some miracle, you will still be in a minuscule minority; and lastly, even if the whole Pakistan decides to be friends with India, what will India gain from such a friendship except arguably the reduction in Kashmir terrorism? What does Pakistan have to offer to India that India does not already have or cannot buy it cheaper from some other part of the world?

Now if in order to gain such a friendship, India has to compromise its territorial integrity, I for one do not think it is worth it.

re: Arjun_m # 83

Arjun, you seem to be jumping to conclusions! lol

Bugti is not that dissimilar from the army; both have no moral grounds to claim popular representation and to claim to be saviors of the people. Both are theives and both steal and if the grandson of the nawab had bought the Ferrari from his own money, I would have no objections.

However, he did not. The point, which seems to elude you is that, what good is all that gas royalty paid to Bugti, in the name of developing the region, when Bugti does not spend it on development but in buying arms from Iran to equip his own private army? The money was not supposed to enrich the Bugti clan and just because he happens to be a civilian, does not make him into an angel! Every one in Pakistan, be they army, politicans, mullahs or civilians are tainted by the stink of hypocricy and none of them can call the kettle black and hence, for one to claim as such, as Bugti is doing, is pure dishonesty. :)

Take Sherry Rehman; the darling of women`s rights. Her husband made a bundle from the Agosta submarine deal and the woman never tries of mouthing the corruption in the military, but when it comes to her own hand in the till, she is silent. Where did the money come to get her elected? Are we to believe that it was the family fortune? lol

Take the other poster-child of women`s rights in Pakistan - Asma Jehangir.

A friend of mine, who was abused by her husband and his family, wanted divorce and went to Asma and Asma turned her down, because her case would not generate enough media spotlight and Asma would not get her 15 minutes in western press as a champion of women`s rights in Pakistan. lol

The hypocricy in this country stinks to high heavens and its is being farted by those very people, who claim to fight for it!

The real issue is not who is buying what cars and whether they wear a uniform or not. :)

Ciao

Farzana:

This is an artcile that has creativity and originality of thought in it. To top it up, you have some excellent references and quotations.

In my opinion, Pakistan should do what Imran Khan says on charges of terrorism. No power in the world has been able to guarantee a terror-less society. Therefore, India asking Pakistan to guarantee that there will be no cross-border terrorism is both unrealistic and unpractical. How can Pakistan guarantee that tomorrow any disgruntled person or a group in India will not bomb a market place? Imran is of the view that this is a trap that we have gotten ourselves into, thanks to President Musharraf, who, being a dictator, was under considerable amount of pressure post 9/11. Pakistan should clearly tell India that latter cannot be the judge of when terrorism has stopped. Or else, Pakistan should also ask India to guarantee that terrorism will not take place in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

#41
Glad to know veeresh is good looking too.

Mantolives

I was talking about ``your credibility`` when you say ``Tamils`` are participating a liberation movements.. Yes they are, but not in ``india`` rather in ``Sri lanka``.

While the Indians can point out the pakistani newspaper reports about army actions against Balochi tribes led by Bugti and bugti`s statements, you should equally point out indian newspaper reports or atleast a statement from a leader with a following of atleast a couple of hundred thousand followers. I will give you an hint. Search in google for ``pazha nedumaran``.. There are a few outfits like ``TNLA/TNRT` etc.. you can search for them too.. I doubt if their followers are in the hundreds and not even in the few thousands.. And out of 60 million it is a miniscule number and their ideology excites literally no one... If the parties like DMK/ADMK support secession then that is a big thing. Because they represent close to 80% of the Tamils.. I doubt they will.. DMK`s first family owns pretty much the media empire of South India (not just the Tamils) and sit on a 5000 crore empire..

I don`t know much about Balochi issues, I am actually interested in knowing about Brahui (is that spoken in parts of Balochistan or maybe not), I have read somewhere it is closer to Tamil.. You have to tell me, the population of Balochistan and how many are Bugti`s followers..

So next time, don`t include ``tamils`` when trying to degrade India by saying it is oppressing so and so..

:-))