The Algebra of Arundhati’s Injudiciousness

Re: # 112

Beautifully put. What else is there to be said?

Arundhati Roy is just another nice writer. The fact that she is good looking makes it tough for her to be taken seriously in india, where we still live in the 18th century when it comes to these things. So she picks on some vague target like the Indian government, whom nobody in their right mind would bother to defend-nobody that from her set anyway- and lunatic causes like Narmada Bachao Andolan, which need to be made sexy as any person who has seen Medha Patkar will testify. Then she makes ridiculous statements like, I secede from the Indian state that supports nuclear proliferation- I mean, what **do** you say to someone who tells you that, except smile brightly and say ``You go girl``.

Why is the Editor in Chief wasting precious chowk real estate (yeah that`s a joke) on a non-issue like Aru-baby rejecting a writers` award? . Everyone knows these awards mean diddly sqwat and matter even less. For Chrissakes they just gave Sania Mirza a Padmashri!

#155 by masadi

[Oppose them on every forum, put blocks in the way of their every move, reject all their appeasement tactics. Way to go Arundhati, you did the right thing.]

American imperialism should have nothing to do with Islam or any kind of spirituality - it should not be used to justify the validity/invalidity of any religion.

But it is always used to promote Islam.

Islam is always popular with people who have ANY kind of axe to grind. For example, Islam is the fastest growing religion among the discerning and perceptive African-American gentlement who inhabit the prison system in America.

There will always be evil in the world, just as there will always be idiots.

LOONY LEFT-WING ALERT !

Yet another pakistani aristocrat, Shri Tariq Ali, is in India, peddling his nonsensical theories and personal prejudices. Comrade Masadi, I would have expected you to travel with your fellow paki aristocrat! Where are you?

Here is a quote from this comfortably rich comrade:

[quote]
From a country which supported the Arab countries in 1956 when Pakistan supported the West, India now is a nation with a visionless leadership obsessed with money and markets and that no longer thinks neither of the stature of the country in the world nor the future of its people.
[ quote]

SUMMARY: india is obsessed with money and markets. How dare these coolies think of making money? Their job is to march around in processions, burn buses and support one arab dictatorship or the other. This is called being progressive.

You can read the rest of the delusional rant in the Hindu, india`s leading Marxist propaganda rag:

http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/27/stories/2006012704181100.htm

#161 now watch the loony-left-tunes come crawling out on a charge and call you names. This will be led by you know who - ``she who cannot be named`` (thanks QCP for this).

They only recognise the hyperbole of the right-wing. Rarely recognising their own.

Their motto- Do as you are told, not as we do

[quote]
``The Project for the New American Century seeks to perpetuate inequity and establish American hegemony at any price, even if it`s apocalyptic. The World Social Forum demands justice and survival. For these reasons, we must consider ourselves at war .``[end quote]
Arundhati Roy

If she did not do all this then how would she remain in the limelight. Look, even you have written an article with a headline with her name in it.

Being humble and accepting acclaim is not newsworthy. Being a contra is fasinating even if for all the wrong reasons

Arjun,

I beg your pardon? Can you explain how teaching has become the equivalent of a ``dole funded by taxpayers?``

Tread carefully on this one, because I am losing my patience with interactors like you.

Saminsha #150
Thanks!

nb #154
Do tell us about Vrinda Nabar`s iconoclastic history :)

thank you Farzana, Arjun, Sadna, HP, Missy Sammy, Queenie, and others for your input. It was enlightening to say the least. I was merely asking for the explication of the title of the book. Somehow, this has not been explained clearly by the author herself anywhere (and I have attended many of her talks seminars etc on this subject and she has evaded answering questions on this.

Thanks to all of you once again. Thanks to the sarcy turds who replied and spoilt the discussion (this includes Queenie and IM and up to a point Missy Sammy). I do not know what is going on between Missy and the other nics around here, but boy everytime she replies to QCP (queer chauvinistic pig - whose that for a variation of the nic) that guys goes OTT.

Back to the topic - Farzana, my query as an extension to the previous one is an obvious one (I guess that is why you deemed it necessary to respond). Much as I agree with the content of the article, I unable to understand the meaning of the title. Once again, I understand the dig vis-a-vis the AR book. Going by Sadna`s response (and using her explication as a basis here), the relationships, the causality etc are not clear. The usual nick & tuck and snipe & bite are missing.

Thanks for your time.

Oppose them on every forum, put blocks in the way of their every move, reject all their appeasement tactics. Way to go Arundhati, you did the right thing.

I doubt that given her own iconoclastic history, Vrinda Nabar ever imagined that Arundhati would think she(Roy) was making a stand by rejecting an award she (Nabar)had a hand in awarding.
Farzana, I agree with you that these are double standards,but I am surprised that you are surprised. Arundhati has a right to her double stanbdards, like everyone else.

#152 by Saminasha on January 25, 2006 4:45pm PT


ever gain the courage to id yourselves?


It takes greater courage to get off taxpayer dole and get the real job..like the rest of us..

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#150 by Saminasha on January 25, 2006 3:07pm PT


However,
questions have been raised about our universities` growing dependence
upon corporate dollars


Lehman college can set an example by rejecting the corporate $$...including tax $$ paid by corporations and people working for corporations..

Sadna,

FYI:

Corporate Power in the Ivory Tower
McMaster Campus Choice Conference 2006

Dear student, organization, or activist group

A quick glance at any university campus and one can see the
ever-increasing presence of large corporations (for instance the
Coca-Cola Exercise Physiology Lab at the University of Western Ontario).
These companies provide services on campus, fund academic and athletic
programs, and have chairs on the various governors` boards. However,
questions have been raised about our universities` growing dependence
upon corporate dollars and willingness to adopt corporate values. More
and more schools are signing exclusive contracts with multinationals
that are implicated in human, worker and environmental rights violations
around the globe, and limiting their student`s ability to choose on campus.

On Monday February 13th 2006, McMaster Campus Choice is holding the
``Corporate Power in the Ivory Tower`` conference 2006 aimed at addressing
the growing negative corporate climate in universities, most
specifically through an examination of the exclusivity contracts various
multinationals have secured with universities in the Canadian context
and beyond. The conference will address the problems that such a
monopoly on campus creates (in terms of a violation of democratic
principals both locally and globally) and explore various means of
resistance (by, for example, raising awareness of corporate malfeasance
and making stricter labour policies and standards for those companies
wishing to do business with our schools).

From this, we hope to create a sustainable inter-university consortium
by networking with students at other universities, as well as labour
unions, community activists, secondary school boards, and non-profit
organizations. We believe no corporation on campus should be exempt from
rules honouring the preservation of environment, or policies respecting
human and worker rights. We hope this conference will bring this issue
to the fore, as well as cultivate viable and ethical solutions.

Our keynote speaker will be Dr. Kenneth Saltman, a visiting professor to
McMaster from De Paul University in Chicago, Illinois. Dr. Saltman will
be teaching a graduate seminar on ``Global Corporate Schooling.`` Saltman
published a book titled ``Collateral Damage: Corporatizing Public
Schools—A Threat to Democracy,`` and has spoken alongside exiled
Colombian Sinaltrainal union members in the United States. Later in the
afternoon there will be a panel of speakers who will discuss the various
issues surrounding the presence of corporations in the university
environment, using Coca-Cola Ltd. and its exclusive contracts with many
universities as a case study.

Sadna,

Will do. thanks again.

Saminasha
Thanks to you too. btw, you had asked (rhetorically though) about the books Sahitya Akademi has published. A list is available here(click on relevant language to see the list).

http://www.sahitya-akademi.org/sahitya-akademi/bklst00.htm

The Akademi does a lot of translating too so for example if you want to read an Assamese play in Kannada, the Akademi list of publications is your best bet to look for it.

Sadna,

I`m sorry, but we must choose to disagree in this case. Thanks for the illuminating discussion!

#144 please also add one more dimension (I hate this word) to that statement: she should have said ``no`` at the very outset. Generally, they are notified about this before the announcement goes out to the public. At that stage she could have said a no I am not interested. So she must surely said yes I will acept it. I wonder what made her change her mind in the matter of a few days?

BTW #141 (T)

#138 Samina, I am not avading your point. two main points you have made so for are:

1. it is upto AR whatever she does about the award.

- frankly I agree with that in principle.
my only issue is she should be consistent in dealing with other institutions, people and monies in respect to the reason given for this refusal (I am against govt policies so I refuse etc..)
If she had said something like: figure A has ``decided`` this award and I am dead against his policies so I refuse. We won`t be talking about it.

2. You have automatically assumed and accusing Akademi to be a front of repressive Indian Govt. hence her refusal justified.

- this point has been amply refuted by many members on this board.

In fact by bringing the irrelavent examples of Bush and Sharon Olds, you are the one who are evading the central point raised to you by me that, is it really valid or possible for one to dissociate oneself from all public institutions of a country if one disagrees with a Government A or Administration B?

It is clear instead of answering that or acting on that you will come back with another patronizing post.

as for rancor created by Roy`s decision, I earlier searched media for article items against it (not news items about it) and google came up with only a few. so what rancor? other than in this small pocket of chowk.:-)

Correction:She need not have accepted the award, but she should not have tried to paint the Akademi with the same brush she paints the government.

Saminasha #142
Yes, in this case there is only one truth, which is that Arundhati Roy has unnecessarily painted the Sahitya Akademi with the black which she paints government and its policies. She has also painted black her fellow literary figures who are associated with the Akademi and all the work it does on behalf of the nation.

She need not have accepted the reward, but she should not have tried to paint the Akademi with the same brush she paints the government. Her self-righteousness wrt the government doesn`t hurt her credibility as much as her self-righteousness wrt the Akademi which just doesn`t work.

Sadna,

Are you saying that there is just one truth, or only one interpretation of the Sahitya organization or what their award means?

You aren`t, and I understand your position. This understanding, however, does not prevent me from understanding Roy`s position.

While you wait for math wizards, peoples, kindly understand what are metaphors. When you write `anatomy of a riot` you don`t actually talk of heart, intestines and kidneys of a riot.

Similarly if you write algebra of xyz, you don`t necessarily intend it to be pure math published with equations, you want to say xyz is an aggregation of factors a,b,c. In this case `infinite justice` is obviously a satirical reference to the US`s name for their Afghanistan war and what actually were the factors resulting in this war

Saminasha #128
``I am struck by the rancour that has greeted Roy`s decision.``

Again, as posters keep repeating, the rancour is not about her refusal, it is about her mischaracterisation of the Akademi and its award which is a national award given by fellow literary figures, not a government award.

Those who respect the Sahitya Akademi are going to get angry when simply because it is Roy speaking, a national institution gets painted black in a rather mindless manner. Being female and dissident doesn`t confer infallibility on a person, you know.

har har har. All it needed was a small peeble and the interacts roll on.

Have saminasha, farzana kissed and made up. They seem to be having a good old one-two going on here. and #138 is the classic opt out by DOLE. declare herself a winner when cornered and disappear from the scene for a while.

dullah,

you continue to evade my points, so I really don`t see the point in continuing this conversation with you.

samina, if it is upto Roy to accept or refuse the award why you feel compelled to advocate her reasons for refusal here? Laura Bush`s invitation is not same as say invitation from an Art organization that gets federal dollars for promotion of arts in USA under some federal program that may be in place when Bush was still in diapers. It does not make sense for AR to go to a recital invitation offered by RSS chief or Sonia Gandhi...or even Manmohan Singh`s wife.

You fail to acknowledge the difference between:
Government and Country
and further berween country and its institutions.
In democracies public interest institutions come into existence with government money. over time they build credibility and earn respect of their people.

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come HP you can do better than that (#131). Please do not equate the three of us, I can gaurantee that I am not one of those two. Do not misplace your temper, or high-horsedness. Save for the likes of Alephnull to turn.

and only a talentless jackass would come up with the clunker ``Financial Mathematics of Infinite Justice`` so that right wing jingoistas who could not understand the poetics of literary language if it were mainlined to them in a Willam Carlos Williams poem would just barely get it...

#125 by HP on January 25, 2006 11:53am PT

your only exposure to math is when you calculate the 15% tip on fares..do they have a ``math for cab driver dummies`` book or something?

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#128 oh dear the old suitably employed do-gooder-troublemaker - cannot even say Sahitya Academi.

I am sure the academi had taken her consent before annoucing the award. AS has been suggested here, she could have said no. But then that is not like her. She is a publicity seeking tramp. So after giving her consent she refused. On the OTHER HAND SHE HAS TAEN THE Chevalier award from the french Govt. An award in Sydney and many other for her writings other than for that book God of small things.

But this is just a small inconvience for the jobless-subsidy-seeking-trouble-makers.

Maybbe Bush should increase their stipend so that they can go on some more jamborees and keep out of mischief.

#124 and others on this topic. A very interesting issue has been raised.
The problem is more derooted than that Farzana. I could be wrong here (let me give an ametuer`s try)
from a pattern you get a hypothesis. from the hypothesis you get a proposition and or theorem.

Infinite justice cannot be a theorem. It has to be a set (purely based on what you suggest about justice). It is on this set that you define the Algebra. Again, the set ``infinite justice`` can be both infinite dimensional or finite dimensional (a point raised by dotty). The issue gets more complicated if it is infinite dimensional since the algebra on it is diffiult to establish and also difficult to define well defined properties. Alephnull could do the honours here!
The relationship you given has to be established using the Algebra defined on the set of ``infinite justice``. When that is done you have a theorem.


Poor Arundhati Roy could have simply suggested the ``Financial Mathematics of Infinite Justice`` as the title and it would have been understood by many. But going for something which sounds abstruce, she has merely dug herself into a hole of sorts. FInacial Mathematics is what she was suggesting (here first column/article with this title dealt with this aspect of the US policy).

Anyway as HP suggested, will leave to the real expert -like Alephnull (a cantor set if I recall from earlier days), andthe other Alephs, and ofcourse HP him/her_self.

Sadna,

I had read the piece you thoughtfully provided. Again, it is the perogative of an artist to accept or decline an award for reasons that are compelling to them. Our arguing whether this particular decision is ``pc`` or ``invalid`` is pointless. Roy obviously wants nothing to do with the legitimization or coopting attempts of the Indian govt. or any indirect corrollary. Surely Sahitya has other dissident and brilliant women writers that they can choose instead.

I am struck by the rancour that has greeted Roy`s decision...even Sharon Old`s letter to Laura Bush didnt engender the chicken hawk armchair jingoistas as does Roy. Does India have a problem with dissenting women writers who refuse national largesse? Isnt that itself a largely paternalistic attitude?

#120 Sadna, {``#120 by sadna
Saminasha
May I request you to kindly throw your eye ``}

Sadna,
You are assuming that she can see. But, the idea of throwing her eye is tempting....how about both eyes? :)

#122, Jang {``so what? dilip k knows that fillums are BANNED (even pre-1965) now, and its ridiculous for paki sarkar to offer the award, and its more silly to accept it. ``}

Jang,
LOL. You have a good point about the victim accepting a reward of pacifism from the perpetrator of the violence, or the way around - the suicide bomber accepting the Nobel Peace Prize after he failed in his attempt to blow up the Nobel institute.

``I refuse to join an organization that would have me as a member.`` I think the same guy said ``All things considered, I would rather be in Philadelphia.``

#124

``We could do with a maths wizard here to enlighten us further (and probably correct me). ``

I know who is going to show up here and I would just wait to see how he explains it.

Then we will invite the real wizard...

The algebra of infinite justice…what does it mean?

I think this is an interesting query. Not being conversant with mathematics, I am fascinated enough to want to conjecture based on rusty knowledge.

In algebra you quantify a qualitative theorem and find a set within it. A hypothesis is then given a pattern.

In the title, ‘infinite justice’ is the theorem. Logically, justice ought to be defined; the hypothesis here is that it is infinite – endless or without boundaries and therefore blurred. Algebraically it could mean a + b = c raised to the power of infinity where ‘a’ and ‘b’ are certain injustices and ‘c’ is ‘justice’ that in undefined. Somewhat like finding method in the madness!

We could do with a maths wizard here to enlighten us further (and probably correct me).

#122 you read Arun_dhirty Roy`s article on why DK(and others) should not be denounced for accepting this award from pak sarkar.

Man, I tell you these trendies (and extremely well-off) are class1 hypocrites.

Living off tax-payers subsidies (and AR and husband get plenty of it - for the land they own in MP - apparently) they have the time to do this. Queenie was right here.

#118 by Salim_Chauhan

so what? dilip k knows that fillums are BANNED (even pre-1965) now, and its ridiculous for paki sarkar to offer the award, and its more silly to accept it.

#119 like I said - mathematical ignorants should not use terms without really understanding them.

So what has algebra got to do with justice?
Is finite-D ``infinite justice`` or infinite-d ``infinte justice``?
Is this algebra for finite dimensional ``infinite justice`` or for infinite ``infinite justice``?
What exactly are the precise properties of this space of ``infinite justice``?

Missy Sammy you, and for the first time, I can say with my hand on my heart, have spoken like a true ignorant dumbkopf.

forget pictures - I need to see properties, structures etc. Precision not some feel good fuzzy-vuzzy crap.

See it is easy to rattle of the insult.

Saminasha
May I request you to kindly throw your eye over #109 at Ms Roy`s fellow contenders which the Akademi was considering for the award. Those other authors aren`t exactly establishment book lickers. Please see in that list corroboration of other posters` points that the Akademi is no handmaiden of the govt. establishment and Ms Roy is not the only radical dissenter in India.

Arjun,

Spell it out and use pictures...dotty is interminably slow witted.

#117, Jang,
Dilip Kumar aka Joseph Kahn, received the Paki awards for movies that he made prior to 1965 - when the ban went in effect. :)

I feel an article denouncing Dilip Kumar AKA Yusuf Khan accepting a paki award is in order. Dilip Kumar should have not accepted an award form a sarkar on the grouds that the same sarkar bans films which are made by the industry he represented, wink-wink piracy notwithstanding.

okay - but why ``algebra``?
thanks for your response.

#114 by

---

...

---

Operation ``Infinite Justice`` was the original name of pperation ``Enduring Freedom``, the war against terrorism in afghanistan...that is, before dubya gave in to muslim whining about ``allah being the only entity capable of dispensing infinite justice`` or something like that..

Can someone please explain the meaning of the title of the book

``algebra of infinite justice``

I have read the book and essays as columns in magazines and papers. But somehow, I am unable to decipher the message the title of the book wants to convey. And I am yet to find anyone who can explain the title to me (this includes eng.lit, languages/linguistic, sociology, political.sc. types). I wonder if Roy herself can explain this without recourse to hyperbole and shrilloutpourings.

And this is the book for which she got the award.....

Can someone please explain the meaning of the title of the book

``algebra of infinite justice``

I have read the book and essays as columns in magazines and papers. But somehow, I am unable to decipher the message the title of the book wants to convey. And I am yet to find anyone who can explain the title to me (this includes eng.lit, languages/linguistic, sociology, political.sc. types). I wonder if Roy herself can explain this without recourse to hyperbole and shrilloutpourings.

And this is the book for which she got the award.....

URL doesn`t open in firefox if you have noscript..

Goddess of very small things

By H.Y. Sharada Prasad



Rejecting honours is becoming a kind of fashion statement. Arundhati Roy has just declined the Sahitya Akademi’s award and sent off an open letter to the Akademi’s chairman explaining why she is saying ``no, thanks.`` In recent years a musician and an author returned the Republic Day honours that the President had conferred upon them. Before such honours are announced, it is the practice to inform the intended person and secure his or her consent. Evidently, all these persons had indicated their acceptance but later changed their minds. The reason must be that they realised that refusal would get them more publicity and fan-following than acceptance would.

In her short career as a celebrity, Arundhati Roy has built up an enviable reputation as a champion of human rights. She has been alert and eloquent in her criticism of misuse of governmental power both within the country and on the international scene. Villagers who are ousted from their homes to make way for river valley projects, urban slum dwellers, and victims of communalists’ brutality and policemen’s ire, can be sure that she will speak up for them. For their part governments treat her as an unwanted meddler.

There certainly is great need in our country for a Girl Zola who will speak up forcefully for those who are wronged. But quite a few people will regret that the young author who showed such promise in her first novel has not come up with another book worthy of her talents. It is sad indeed that The God of Small Things has not been followed by bigger things. The literary gift demands much cultivation. Merely by writing a lot one does not learn to write well. A writer can be an agitator. But agitation does not necessarily teach you the craft. Slogan shouting might strengthen the lungs and the voice but it will not make you a singer.

Perhaps the Booker Prize itself is responsible for Arundhati Roy’s plight. All those photographs, interviews, and feature articles in newspapers and on television, all that lionisation, must have been a little too much, and made the young woman believe she was a prophetess and seer.

A writer need not emulate the silkworm which retreats into its own cocoon, but he must find time for contemplation. He must learn how to separate the private and the public. The trouble with Arundhati Roy has been that she has allowed the private voice of the author to be drowned in the loud accents of the public agitator.

A literary prize is given generally to a work of fiction, poetry, or drama. Occasionally critical and philosophical works are also chosen for the award. The essay, which is a well-recognised genre, is also a candidate. It is for their essays and philosophical reflections that Bertrand Russell and Henri Bergson got the Nobel Prize. It is a delusion to think that Arundhati Roy’s writings on public controversies can be ranked as literary essays worthy of honour. They are no more than pamphleteering. It was wrong of the Sahitya Akademi to have chosen them for the Award in the first place. As if it is not enough to have erred, the Akademi has been slapped in the face by the very person they wanted to honour.

Arundhati Roy declares that she will not accept an honour which has been financed by a government whose hands are dipped in the blood of innocent Maoists and the rebels of Manipur. Has she ever paused to find out where the money for the Booker Prize, which made her a celebrity overnight, came from? It is well known that Booker was a Guyanese adventurer who made his money partly through exploiting sugarcane workers and partly through smuggling. Is it more ethical to accept such a prize and less ethical to accept a prize instituted from the taxes paid by the people of one’s own country?

The Indian government’s record on human rights and its support to the policies followed by the United States in Afghanistan and Iraq, which are the ostensible grounds for Arundhati Roy’s rebuff, have nothing to do with the grant to the Sahitya Akademi. As she herself concedes in her communication to the chairman of the Akademi, she has high regard for its officials, as well as for the committees which choose the awardees. In doing so, she seems to admit that the Akademi is autonomous in its decisions.

H.Y. Sharada Prasad was adviser to Prime Ministers Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi

Frankly THE GOD OF SMALL THINGS was a very hyped book .Its was a media frenzy that started when the book was released ,with AR interviewed on every channel.

I was disappointed when I actually read the book.Its think it was very much overvalued and so is AR.


Rejection is another of her publicity stunt...it would have been better to accept the award from an institution like the SAHITYA AKADEMI which through goverment sponsered is ferociously autonomous .

An Algebra of infinite justice is just leftist bashing of all capitalist values and what america stands for.However the BOOKER is very much a British award( a strong U.S ally) so by the same logic accepting the award was endorsing that government`s policy.

I remember that OCTAVIO PAZ was uncertain in accepting the NOBEL PRIZE ,he met anandamayi devi who told him that rejecting the award was `` giving importance to himself as well as the award`` .she advised him to accept the award in indifference.Ultimately OP accepted the award.

AR accepting the award would have done the same

Question: does anybody know why Arundhati Roy is upset at Indian Nuclear Sarkar?

...... may be she is mad because her Indian Sarkari Damsel furiously gyrating her hips to attaract Uncle Sam`s attention finally succeeded with her hips -- in landing a 10 year nuclear concubinage contract -- with the new lothario on the block Uncle Bush...

........but I am sure for no fault of the Indian Sahitya Sarkar....

now this is called in vernacular -- Khet khai Gudhaa maar khai Jolaha......(with profound apologies to the weaver families please).....

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20060130&fname=Booksc&sid=1
Bibiofile
``It`s not the first time that a writer has turned down a Sahitya Akademi award (it`s the sixth time, in fact) but Arundhati Roy`s rejection is rankling the Akademi for other reasons. Having struggled for years to maintain their independence from the government even while surviving on funds provided by it, Arundhati`s bracketing of the institution with the government`s policies is raising hackles. The five others who spurned the award did it for a variety of reasons: Gujarati novelist Suresh Joshi claimed he`d been awarded for the wrong book; Jayant Kothari said he`d got it too late in his life. A letter has gone forth therefore to ask Arundhati to reconsider her decision on the grounds that the Akademi and the government are two different animals, and reminding her of the two or three occasions when it had roused itself from its usual languor to protest against a government decision.

It`s odd how a process of selecting literary awards that has been in place for over half a century, and which takes almost a year to decide the prize-winners, is so... sarkari. The list (you can`t possibly call it a shortlist) is drawn up at least a year ahead of the announcement, only getting longer as it goes from selection panel to advisory panel to jury. Among the nine or ten names that figured in this year`s list included Ram Guha (An Anthropologist Among the Marxists and Other Essays), Githa Hariharan (In Times of Siege), Shashi Tharoor (Riot), Ruchir Joshi (The Last Jet Engine Laugh), Makarand Paranjape (Used Book), Tanika Sarkar (Hindu Wife, Hindu Nation: Community, Religion and Cultural Nationalism) and Imtiaz Dharker (I Speak for the Devil). It was Imtiaz who won until someone realised too late that she wasn`t an Indian citizen.

When Khushwant Singh described his relationship with publisher Oxford University Press as ``marrying a grand duchess—the honour is more than the pleasure``, the audience at the launch of his Illustrated History of Sikhs was naturally very amused. Is that how Arundhati felt about getting the Sahitya Akademi award?``

#84 Farzana Versey
On side note:-
And, grey zone is just hazy and fogy. Ultimately, grey zone dissolves, and we are compelled to see, what is wrong or right. So, grey zone is just a delusion, nothing else.

#84 Farzana Vesey
That is exactly the validation of FV`s writting skills that even though I was never aware of who Arundhati Roy was? FV gave me a clear picture of the whole scenerio through this very well wirtten article. Only, through this article , i was able to analyse this interesting situation. Thank you, Miss Versey.


Farzana Versey
Well said, but, remember there is right or wrong, most of the time. Either you are right , or, you`re wrong or you are in grey zone, not, to be labelled any. Though your article proves Arundhati Roy`s decision totally wrong with validation based on morality, principles and vanity. But, your personal admiration for the writer doesn`t let you label her wrong or right. When you are inspired by someone, you have hard time to see the very same person doing or deciding something, which is apparently wrong. You are not ready to accept it. Even though you clearly stated in your article, your mind is accepting it,but, your heart is rejecting it. That is where we grey zone starts when your heart(emotions) do not match with your mind.
Thank you for your point of view.

#103 - do you have any original comments? Only cut and paste.

It is totally up to Ms. Arundhati Roy to accept or decline awards that come her way for whatever reason or reasons she might have. IMHO it is irrelevant to discuss whether she SHOULD have done what she did or whether she was right or wrong. We can agree to disagree with her and debate issues that she brings up by her refusal, but that`s about it. We shouldn`t imply reasons on her behalf which she hasn`t explicitly stated. And we definitely should not psycho-analyze and point to motives that she may or may not have for refusing the award.

Most people vehemently disagree with her politics. Hence they tend to take her decision personally and then inevitably launch personal attacks on her. It is quite ironical. She is reviled by so many, when most of her work revolves around fighting on behalf of the disenfranchised (even if there is a foreign/NGO sponsored agenda behind it as so many people here are quick to imply).

I think there are two kinds of people in this world. Those like Ms. Roy who actually DO something to right the wrongs, and then those like me and others, who are just content in INTERACTING about it here on chowk.

Didn`t the Akademy notify Ms. Roy apriori of their decision to bestow an award upon her? I wonder why she hadn`t said no then.

This article can be found on the web at
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051010/olds

---

Open Letter to Laura Bush
by SHARON OLDS

[from the October 10, 2005 issue]

For reasons spelled out below, the poet Sharon Olds has declined to attend the National Book Festival in Washington, which, coincidentally or not, takes place September 24, the day of an antiwar mobilization in the capital. Olds, winner of a National Book Critics Circle Award and professor of creative writing at New York University, was invited along with a number of other writers by First Lady Laura Bush to read from their works. Three years ago artist Jules Feiffer declined to attend the festival`s White House breakfast as a protest against the Iraq War (``Mr. Feiffer Regrets,`` November 11, 2002). We suggest that invitees to this year`s event consider following their example.--The Editors

Laura Bush
First Lady
The White House

Dear Mrs. Bush,

I am writing to let you know why I am not able to accept your kind invitation to give a presentation at the National Book Festival on September 24, or to attend your dinner at the Library of Congress or the breakfast at the White House.

In one way, it`s a very appealing invitation. The idea of speaking at a festival attended by 85,000 people is inspiring! The possibility of finding new readers is exciting for a poet in personal terms, and in terms of the desire that poetry serve its constituents--all of us who need the pleasure, and the inner and outer news, it delivers.

And the concept of a community of readers and writers has long been dear to my heart. As a professor of creative writing in the graduate school of a major university, I have had the chance to be a part of some magnificent outreach writing workshops in which our students have become teachers. Over the years, they have taught in a variety of settings: a women`s prison, several New York City public high schools, an oncology ward for children. Our initial program, at a 900-bed state hospital for the severely physically challenged, has been running now for twenty years, creating along the way lasting friendships between young MFA candidates and their students--long-term residents at the hospital who, in their humor, courage and wisdom, become our teachers.

When you have witnessed someone nonspeaking and almost nonmoving spell out, with a toe, on a big plastic alphabet chart, letter by letter, his new poem, you have experienced, close up, the passion and essentialness of writing. When you have held up a small cardboard alphabet card for a writer who is completely nonspeaking and nonmoving (except for the eyes), and pointed first to the A, then the B, then C, then D, until you get to the first letter of the first word of the first line of the poem she has been composing in her head all week, and she lifts her eyes when that letter is touched to say yes, you feel with a fresh immediacy the human drive for creation, self-expression, accuracy, honesty and wit--and the importance of writing, which celebrates the value of each person`s unique story and song.

So the prospect of a festival of books seemed wonderful to me. I thought of the opportunity to talk about how to start up an outreach program. I thought of the chance to sell some books, sign some books and meet some of the citizens of Washington, DC. I thought that I could try to find a way, even as your guest, with respect, to speak about my deep feeling that we should not have invaded Iraq, and to declare my belief that the wish to invade another culture and another country--with the resultant loss of life and limb for our brave soldiers, and for the noncombatants in their home terrain--did not come out of our democracy but was instead a decision made ``at the top`` and forced on the people by distorted language, and by untruths. I hoped to express the fear that we have begun to live in the shadows of tyranny and religious chauvinism--the opposites of the liberty, tolerance and diversity our nation aspires to.

I tried to see my way clear to attend the festival in order to bear witness--as an American who loves her country and its principles and its writing--against this undeclared and devastating war.

But I could not face the idea of breaking bread with you. I knew that if I sat down to eat with you, it would feel to me as if I were condoning what I see to be the wild, highhanded actions of the Bush Administration.

What kept coming to the fore of my mind was that I would be taking food from the hand of the First Lady who represents the Administration that unleashed this war and that wills its continuation, even to the extent of permitting ``extraordinary rendition``: flying people to other countries where they will be tortured for us.

So many Americans who had felt pride in our country now feel anguish and shame, for the current regime of blood, wounds and fire. I thought of the clean linens at your table, the shining knives and the flames of the candles, and I could not stomach it.

Sincerely,
SHARON OLDS

Dullah Sahib,

You seem to have difficulties with understanding qualifiers. My response was that state university faculty has traditionally maintained a critical stance of governmental policies. That is exactly the point of a democratic and secular education. This is why on one hand Sharon Olds can teach at a state uni, but REFUSE an invitation to read at the White House.

That is one gray area you have done your best to avoid acknowledging.

#100 so you do agree that there are institutions funded by governments that hire left leaning intellectuals and let them work for betterment of marginalized communities. Thank you. That is what many of us has been trying to say for 100 posts. As for ``....federal govt continues to try to cut the programs, funding...`` I can bet there are millions of people in India and some in federal govt of India that did not want this award be given to AR...similarily like feds try to cut...indian govt probably tried to not give award to AR. Goodness persists along with evil. That has been my point all along.

it may be unconvincing to you because you are already convinced of your self-righteousness and us/our being better than them paradigm. If there is difference between situation described by you and AR case, it is only difference between getting recognized with one time meagre amount of few thousand ruppes versus making ones livelyhood of a government funded institution for life.

Dulla Sahib,


Most of academia critiques government policy-this is one characteristic that distinguishes a ``democracy``-free speech. Public universities have to a great extent, hired and tenured the talented left leaning students of the sixties. These intellectuals have developed the movements that distinguish higher learning today-our mission statement IS to DIRECTLY empower the largest numbers of marginalized communities in the US. The analogy you are making to PUBLIC US STATE UNIS and the Sahitya Award is unconvincing because the federal govt continues to try to cut the programs, funding and services that are involved in teaching literacy to marginalized citizenry. The faculty are quite cognizant of this battle, thank you.

Sadna,

I understand your point. I`ll see if I can research writers who have accepted and refused the award and see if they have commented on their decisions.

The whole argument is on wrong premise. it assumes that all branches, organziations and institutions associated with a national government are equally evil and each one of them share the blame for others. Truth is far from this. While branch A of a govt can be totally cruel and anti-people, another branch B may be most justful in the world. We see it all the time, if it were not so, it would be hard for Samina to live under a Bush regime, be gainfully employed, eat and live healthy.

Same is true about the Indian case. I agree with AR that many of the policies of Indian government and many of its actions have been anti-people(or some people), many parts of this Govt are corrupt and it needs million improvements in its policy and work it does, but that does not mean there are not parts of it..or institutions funded by it that are not doing good in India.

Samina`s thinking is all black and white and refuses to see the grey shades even though they may be just under her own chin. I asked her a hypothetical question and she refuses to answer it in her diabolical rhetoric about anti-establishment..or even give an hypthetical answer. She thinks AR has been the only first and last revolutionary ever took birth in India.

There are over 25 languages and hundreds of writers associated with Akademi...some of these have spent their lives struggling against Government policies and continue to do so. Have written not one novel or 2/3 books but many dozens of books about the people they live amongst. Point is when they accepted Akademi awards they did not accept it because of money or it is given by Indian govt but because it has become a symbol of recognition by the country...a literary tradition of Indian writers. It is not a Govt Akademi but an Indian Akademi...if money is coming from Government budget, it is afterall money of Indian people. In AR`s case money is not the issue either, she could take and distribute the money away to poor beggers just outside the akademi building in less than half an hour.

Saminasha #96
I am not that concerned about Arundhati Roy` choice to accept or reject the award. My layman`s view is that the Akademi is likely to keep her award for her until one day she accepts it. So she will get her point and they will get theirs as well. These give and takes happen in a free society and she is part of it.

The misrepresentation of the Sahitya Akademi is what bothers me more. To call it pro-repression in its intent is going much too far, according to me.

Sadna,

But clearly you recognize that the decision to accept or turn down an award is based on several factors. We could go down the list of recipients who have refused the Sahitya Award and research what their reasons were.

all the best!

Saminasha#92
I don`t know the answers to those. You tell me how many of those things has the Sahitya Akademi done? If you ignore everything being told to you about the Sahitya Akademi by many posters here, what can I do?

Saminasha #89

The Indian situation is much more complex than the American one, in case you haven`t noticed. In India traditionally the arts and crafts flourished because of royal or temple patronage.

Post-independence, the government has stepped in to fill the gap and prevent these arts and crafts from disappearing altogether. This has been part of reasserting ourselves after being under foreign rule. India is essentially a poor country where purchasing power is poor and if govt puts Indians` own taxpayer money into these things, it is only acting as an instrument of the people`s aspirations about their own language and culture when it does so.

As for the answers to your questions -

Must a writer accept an award given by a governmental institution that has been responsible for destructive polices levelled against innocent citizen populations?

The said government institution the Sahitya Akademi is not engaged in destruction, it is engaged in constructive work.


Does an award given to artists coming from communities marginalized by national govt. policies have legitimacy to those artists and communities? Why or why not?

It does have legitimacy in that its recognition of marginalized communities means that the national govt. is acknowledging their marginalization, trying to end their marginalization and bring them into the mainstream.

Does the awarding of marginalized artists lead to the co-opting of their (in Roy`s case) social criticism? What does canonization confer?


Mahasweta Devi has worked with marginalized tribal communities and her Jnanpith Award was taken as a recognition of her work, and of the marginalized she worked with. Whether she chose to be coopted after she was awarded is/was her own choice as it will be Arundhati Roy`s.

To what extent is a governmental institution become legitmized by the artists they award viz the larger institutional policies of marginalization

I don`t understand why you say that an insitution publishing literature and giving awards to writers constitutes legitimization of marginalization.

You are also mistaken in giving too much significance to a honor which btw is being conferred on her not the reverse. You might not know about it but the Sahitya Akademi needs no legimitization from Ms Roy.

In India the bigger the problem you talk about, the more important for you become part of the solution instead of eternally bellyaching. If a govt-funded institution. gives you recognition or opportunity, on what basis do you shun it if you really care to be an instrument of change? Leave aside an award which basically only confers recognition and respect for what you have been saying. Suppose tomorrow Ms Roy is offered a position in the Akademi, what would you tell her to do?

``I do not believe in this ‘Arundhati Roy – right or wrong’ attitude. I am glad I can admire her literary qualities and agree with many of the issues she stands for and yet question her refusal of this award. ``

This is the most common-sensical, politically unbiased perspective.

Sadna,


In the spirit of interrogation:

1. How many assasinations has Doubleday sponsored?

2. Has Doubleday funded the imprisonment and torture of marginalized or dissenting writers?

3. Has Doubleday refused the inclusion of marginalized Indian citizen writers into publishing based on their identities or writing skills and marketability? Which is worse?

4. Does Doubleday have a publically stated mission statement that explicates their publishing policies?

5. How many marginalized, imprisoned, and tortured writers has Doubleday published?

6. How many South Asian dissident women writers has Doubleday published?

7. Is the consumption of texts penned by these writers indicative as acceptance of social criticism against the government of India?

Sadna,

Well done! I am glad to discuss this with an equal, lol!

Let me go all anti-colonial on Ms Roy and Saminasha :).

``Who is helping along the interrogating of the illegitimate establishment, those trying to preserve the diversity of India`s linguistic traditions or those in favor of letting the said diverse traditions die out due to mischance and the market forces?``

Same market forces which made Ms Roy a successful author btw. Does Ms Roy represent the big publishers` multinational establishment, who are particular about publishing only those authors who will make them hefty profits and pay for their golf vacations in the Bahamas and retirements in Florida, and not what some tribal in India wants to say?

Is Ms Roy trying to sabotage on these multinationals` behalf, the anti-colonial anti-capitalist vernacular literature economy in India which challenges the power of these multinationals and is upholding local rights against literary colonialism?

In her snubbing the Sahitya Akademi jury but not the Booker Prize jury, are we infact witnessing Ms Roy promoting the American Penguin/DoubleDay colonization of Indian literature market like the East India company colonized India by cutting our thumbs and monopolizing our instruments of defense, production and interrogation?

Is Saminasha preparing us for this colonization by telling us how unworthy we are to award prizes to authors just like the British prepared Indians for colonization by teaching them the myth of Indians being a subject race since time immemorial?

Are jury members who are Marathi/Malayalam writers in India coming from families without running hot water at home ( during the power cuts anyway) more of establishment figures for Ms Roy than jury members who are leftists in US literary circles but iving in Manhattan high rises or multi-million dollar homes in the suburbs ?

hehe. It is fun playing the victim interrogator to Saminasha`s establishment

Sadna,

No, I am not ``confused`` about your reframing of this debate. I do think you`ve asked some excellent questions.

Here are some for you:

Must a writer accept an award given by a governmental institution that has been responsible for destructive polices levelled against innocent citizen populations?

Does an award given to artists coming from communities marginalized by national govt. policies have legitimacy to those artists and communities? Why or why not?

Does the awarding of marginalized artists lead to the co-opting of their (in Roy`s case) social criticism? What does canonization confer?

To what extent is a governmental institution become legitmized by the artists they award viz the larger institutional policies of marginalization?

#87 see if the Royal Society would make her a fellow Arundhati Roy would jump to it. (after all it is not indian) Or the Royal Society medal for her work - I am sure she would turn in London resplendent in her Sari (woven by 1000`s of woemn on the bread line specially for her).

My question to you is this: Is the Royal Society a govt institute? Is it something which the Govt uses to co-opt people?

Your answer to this (the above on RS) would be very enlightening and revealing. Please donot hesitate to answer. The first para is just irrelevant to my question to you.

re: 85

Dulla Sahib,

Are you trying to say that because tortured and imprisoned writers accepted the SAHITYA (are you quibbling over spelling? Loser move, that) that the award is now acceptable?

Are you even capable of registering the irony of your notion?

Even though it does not matter at all, for once I agree with FV..

Arundhati Roy`s crusade appears to be heading towards a confusing direction. On one hand she is ok with accepting hugs from people (read `white people`) who may be contributor to world problems that she is crusading against. On other hand, she is trying to project herself higher than her compatriots (Is is because they are not white enough?)

It would have made sense if she rejected ``brooker`` because those prizes are usually meant to promote western idea of ``good`` and ``bad``...

Regards

Samina, just keeping on blowing the horns of anti-establishment does not count for great thinking..keep that up. I have not seen any new ideas in your posts other than repeating the same thing about govt this govt that. yesterday you could`t even spell ``Sahitya`` properly even if your life depended upon it but you already knew it was a front of government to buy artists and writers.


I was going thru the recepients from Punjabi literature and I can spot about half a dozen hard core naxalites/marxists and another dozen and half leftists in the list of total 44 over last 50 years. I will assume same is the case with other languages. Some of them suffered on the hands of the government for holding extreme leftist views and also acting on them...suffering as put behind bars, discriminated in jobs and even tortured by police.

No one is asking AR to change her decision. She has made it. I think it is inconsistent with her professed claims. People are free to cricize her for this. Nothing more to this saga.

Since you are supporting her in this decision - chor naloN panD kahli - why don`t you answer this hypothetical scenario:

suppose I am furiously anti-Bush and fanatically anti-American imperialism how should I feel about getting my paycheck every week from an employer who claims that it is ``the third in the ranking of federal grants and awards received``? Is Bush administration trying to buy me indirectly by supporting my employer and hence my employment? Am I compromising my ideals?

I do not believe in this ‘Arundhati Roy – right or wrong’ attitude. I am glad I can admire her literary qualities and agree with many of the issues she stands for and yet question her refusal of this award.

To me that reveals that she is not a one-dimensional person, as some would like to believe…and expounding on that makes one see things from the perspective of content as opposed to merely a credo.

As I mentioned in the latter part of the article, she represents something besides herself. If her articulation of ‘injustice’ is being lauded, then one should not rubbish it merely because it comes with a price tag of only Rs.50,000. I won’t even get into the bit about whether accepting an award is ‘good manners’ because I did not suggest it anywhere. However, the display of good manners isn’t exactly something to be sniffed at, just as dissenting is not.

Those of us who are more aware of the people who have won the awards in the past will realise that Ms. Roy does not have to get into a huddle with them, because they are all different people. A Vijay Tendulkar has broken every rule and been unsparing of the establishment, and anyone who has watched Mahesh Dattani’s ‘Final Solutions’ on stage will know just how chilling the portrayal of the riots was.

In fact, Tendulkar has traversed the whole spectrum from tribal exploitation, to police atrocities, to auctioning of women to the situation of devdasis. He has hit out at the establishment through the voice of the common people.

It is common knowledge that he has been threatened often.

And, yes, he too has been called shrill and an eccentric! And he is not a woman…

My position on Roy as a writer and activist has been clearly enunciated in an earlier article for which I provided a link at the beginning, so the issue here is not about her in these personae. It is the leftists and activists who talk about brotherhood/sisterhood/comradeship. Therefore, she really would not be belittled in any way if she stood along with some other dissenters and accepted the award.

If she speaks as an Indian, she should not look down on it. There have been several wonderful posts here on the Akademi, so there is more information available now. The organisation is not run by Narendra Modi or Bal Thackeray or the saffron brigade or mullah mafia. It is not run on a day-to-day basis by any government functionary.

I have not implied that Roy’s is a publicity stunt – but I have raised some questions. They also work as answers.

Thanks for the discussion. I do believe that getting amused is the first step towards better understanding. Googling ‘Sahitya Akademi’ is a fine beginning…

I think Saminasha and perhaps Ms Roy are just confused about this simple question- is a government-funded institution which encourages literature in India`s many languages anti-colonial, colonial, post-colonial?

Is an institution whose mission it is to prevent native languages and `subaltern narratives` in them from dying out or becoming extinct, anti-colonial, colonial, post-colonial, modern or post-modern in tendency ?

Who is helping along the interrogating of the illegitimate establishment, those trying to preserve the diversity of India`s linguistic traditions or those in favor of letting the said diverse traditions die out due to mischance and the market forces?

Let us confuse the issue further. I think Mr Satchidanandan, the secretary of the Akademi is a leftist in tendency(I am not sure). So repeat the above questions keeping that in mind, assuming that the minute he joined the Akademi to carry out its above mandate, he didn`t lose all moral right to leftism.

(I did my best but someone can help me by rephrasing with the right theoretical, deconstructionist, marxist or academic jargon ).

Samina #80: Of course Samina Ji, that was implied in my acceptance condition, but I am not the subject of the offer here. Let us focus on AR, Gul SAHIB and morality virgins. Please explain your remarks without the use of Ebonics.

Now what does `giving a fig` mean in CUNY language? Offering a fig-leaf to cover nudity is a face saving device. Do you support terrorism and do you approve of AR sleeping in the enemy`s bed?

Let me explain how I paraphrase your remarks.

`` AR is a great writer and this frees her of any moral restraints to not pose with terrorist honcho like Gul SAHIB. Any one who criticizes her for that is a morality virgin and a patron of Hustler magazine``

Is this what you meant?

#66
Correction - literacy in 1954 was 18%.

re: 78

Were that you were offered an award...

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#75 : I accept all and any prizes pffered by Gul SAHIB, CIA, RSS or the Devil with or without any money involved. I prefer money anytime. However unlike Professor Samina, I am not part of the `Us` group and have no idea what giving a fig means.

In any case, Farzana Bibi did not write an article about me. It is a waste of time to mock loonies.

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LOL Manto. Sadna needs no propping, least of all from me. By the way does Aisha Ben ever scream at you when she gets upset, thinking about Gandhi or is screaming limited to only a few Paki ladies on Chowk?

So what was your reason for rejecting AR? What are the salient differences between her `humanist values` and `Pakistani nationalistic values`?

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pmishra2: ` There are far too many middle-aged indian men shrieking at indian women for saying this or that. I am really, really sick of that. `

I am sick of that and also sicker of Paki women screaming at just a few trembling middle-aged Indian men. I thought you were an Indian young man.)

... but yes continue to prop up sadna... maybe someday she`ll be able ``bite my legs off``

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