Is the American Dream Dead? Can Asians Think?

#22 by chaltahai

[...And I have no qualms about the ``specialness`` of being an American being equated to exclusivity. The folks beating down the American embassy doors around the world are proof of that.]

I must politely disagree with you. The day Americans start thinking themselves as ``exclusive``, we take the first step on the road to perdition (luckily, in my view, we are not there yet). And if there are people who are beating down US embassy doors because of economic hardship where they are located - that is a cause for feeling sad that such hardships exist in this world - our world - it should not be force-formed into a celebration of ``exclusivity``.

Let me put this quote from the ``father`` of this country (George Washington) as some food for thought (for everyone):

``Let your heart feel for the afflictions and distress of everyone, and let your hand give in proportion to your purse.``

Also, perhaps we don`t need to discount this article so much - since it may have made up through generating the interacts what it may have lacked in its main body - and perhaps that`s why the editor(s) decided to put it up. Those scoundrels!

Re:#23:

nasah:

{after Bush anomaly is gone } as usual you are playing to the peanut gallery and do not understand America. It seems that you just want some cheap at-a-boys from your comrades by your anti-Bush comments.

Read my post #26, and understand completely before going on your stupid thoughts that somehow Democrats live in a different America. Well, they don`t. And if they want to win back the White House or the Congress again, they better start talking about America first. All these internationalist rubbish agendas are going to the dustbin.

Actually, Bill Clinton was an anomaly in the US.

Respectfully submitted,

More and more Americans want to be isolated and insulated from the rest of the world.

http://economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5499501

The public mood

The isolationist temptation
Feb 9th 2006 | WASHINGTON, DC
From The Economist print edition

A growing number of Americans would like fewer entanglements with foreigners

FOR many Americans, it`s a mad, mad, mad, mad world out there, and getting worse. During the Salman Rushdie affair 17 years ago, angry Muslims were content merely to call for the death of the allegedly blasphemous author and his publishers. This week, they were calling for the death not only of some allegedly blasphemous cartoonists but also their compatriots. And people from neighbouring countries. And Jews. And, inevitably, Americans.

What`s the point, some Americans grumble, of engaging with such people? We gave the Iraqis freedom, runs the argument, and they repaid us with roadside bombs. Palestinians got the vote and used it to elect terrorists. And dealing with the rest of the world is scarcely more rewarding: old Europe sneers at us, the Chinese steal our jobs and Mexicans are quietly re-conquering the south-western United States. Wouldn`t it be simpler to build a fence around our vast, rich, sane nation and let the rest of the world go hang?

It is a sign of the appeal of such sentiments that George Bush devoted much of his state-of-the-union speech to them.

“The road of isolationism and protectionism may seem broad and inviting—yet it ends in danger and decline...America rejects the false comfort of isolationism...Isolationism would not only tie our hands in fighting enemies, it would keep us from helping our friends in desperate need...American leaders—from Roosevelt to Truman to Kennedy to Reagan—rejected isolation and retreat, because they knew that America is always more secure when freedom is on the march.”

Mr Bush oversimplified, using one word—isolationist—for several disparate opponents. But he is right to worry. Partly in reaction to the president`s hyperactive foreign entanglements, various forms of isolationist sentiment are indeed on the rise. A Pew poll in October found 42% of Americans agreeing that the United States “should mind its own business internationally and let other countries get along the best they can on their own.” That figure had jumped by 12 points in three years to its highest level since the mid-1970s (after the humiliation of Vietnam).

Although Mr Bush was hardly fair when he described all advocates of a less muscular foreign policy as “isolationist”, he has correctly identified one of the strongest currents against which he must swim. Many Americans wish to disengage from the world in one or more of four ways: by fighting fewer wars, by trading less freely, by allowing fewer foreigners into their country or by giving less foreign aid.

The purest isolationists, ironically, are to be found in the president`s own party. Since Mr Bush came to office promising a “humble” foreign policy, they feel betrayed that he has practised the opposite. “Why would a president use his state of the union to lash out at a school of foreign policy thought that has had zero influence in his administration?” fumes Pat Buchanan, a former presidential aspirant and voice of the GOP`s nativist wing. The answer: “His foreign policy is visibly failing, and his critics have been proven right.”

Iraq never attacked America, argues Mr Buchanan, so America did not have to attack it. As for the idea that America`s security depends on ending foreign tyranny, that is “noble-sounding nonsense”, writes Mr Buchanan. “Our security rests on US power and will, and not on whether Zimbabwe, Sudan, Syria, Cuba or even China is ruled by tyrants. Our forefathers lived secure in a world of tyrannies by staying out of wars that were none of America`s business.” Mr Buchanan thinks foreign aid is “the looting of America for the construction of the New World Order”. He is proudly protectionist and he fears that Hispanic immigration threatens not only America`s survival as one nation but also Republican dominance of American politics, since Latinos usually vote Democrat.

Mr Buchanan has been singing this song for some time: it was part of his pitchfork rebellion against Mr Bush`s father in the Republican primaries in 1992. But in damning the Iraq war and the use of force to spread democracy, Mr Buchanan is part of a much broader (and potentially more potent) movement.

On the right, there are two main groups: small-government conservatives and foreign-policy realists. The former point to the huge cost to the taxpayer of the Iraq war and the Pentagon (see article). The latter, typified by Brent Scowcroft, the first President Bush`s national-security adviser, think that the old policy of propping up Arab strongmen brought “50 years of peace” to the Middle East.

For different reasons, almost everyone on the left opposes the war. The people who have enough spare time to go on marches and listen to Cindy Sheehan tend to think “BusHitler” invaded Iraq to enrich Halliburton. A larger, quieter group thinks the administration launched an avoidable war and botched it. Overall, the proportion of Americans who think the Iraq war worth fighting has fallen from 70% in April 2003 to about 45% now.

They take our jobs

Opposition to Mr Bush`s trade policies comes mostly from the Democrats. The Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA) squeaked through the House last year by 217 votes to 215. Only 15 Democrats backed it—and unions promptly vowed to punish the “CAFTA 15”.

Democratic presidents are usually more supportive of free trade than their party, perhaps because a president represents the whole nation, not just a district with a steel mill that might close because of imports. Hillary Clinton, the Democratic frontrunner for 2008, is a free trader. But it is not impossible that the party`s increasingly angry base could nominate a protectionist in 2008. The party`s vice-presidential candidate in 2004, Senator John Edwards, voted against cheap textile imports and then made stump speeches about a 10-year-old American girl who, he said, couldn`t afford a winter coat. According to Gallup, the proportion of Americans who see foreign trade more as an opportunity for growth than as a threat to the domestic economy fell from 56% in 2000 to 45% last year.

While many Democrats want to curb the inflow of foreign goods, many Republicans want to curb that of foreigners. Mr Bush says the American economy “could not function without” immigrants. Tom Tancredo, a Republican congressman from Colorado, disagrees. He argues that the costs of immigration outweigh the benefits: immigrants` children must be schooled at taxpayers` expense, and their willingness to work for a pittance drags down the wages of unskilled Americans.

He thinks that America`s borders could be secured “relatively easily” and at “minimal cost” by building hundreds of miles of fences and deploying troops to patrol them (which would be good training, he says), and by punishing firms that employ illegals. He thinks the House would back 50-60% of his agenda—a tough anti-immigration bill passed late last year and is now in the Senate—and he hopes to make immigration an issue in the November mid-term elections.

It will be. Many non-Hispanic Americans see illegal immigration as not merely an economic threat, but also a cultural one. In a recent poll, only 8% of respondents thought the problem “not very serious”, while 63% thought it “very” or “extremely” serious. The final “isolationist” issue, foreign aid, is not yet electorally significant, though polls show Americans tend to think their country is too generous.

One reason to ignore the growth in isolationism in the short term is Mr Bush. He has made it clear he has no plans to change course. Iraq will be his legacy, so he has to see it through as best he can. He has compromised on free trade before, and may do so again, but few doubt where his preferences lie. On immigration, he seems sincerely liberal and convinced that Republicans can woo the swelling Hispanic vote. And on foreign aid, who`ll notice a few odd billions in a budget of $2.77 trillion?

Optimists point out that America has always had a vocal isolationist minority. And surely globalisation—more travel, ever deeper economic integration, common threats (such as global warming and terrorism)—mean that America cannot go it alone. Francis Fukuyama, a famously optimistic professor at Johns Hopkins University, even thinks the Muhammad cartoon row could pull America and Europe closer together, as Europeans realise they have more in common even with Texans than with Islamists.

So the most likely outcome is surely that the current isolationist surge will fade away. But consider two things. First, greater integration and the war on terror have hardly brought the two sides of the Atlantic together. Meanwhile, despite his proud words in the state of the union, isolationism, broadly defined, has already tempered Mr Bush`s policy. The public`s exhaustion with Iraq makes it harder for the president to tackle Iran. He will also have to retreat on immigration if he is going to get something through.

A lot depends on leadership. For the moment none of the leading candidates for the presidency in 2008 is an isolationist and the favourite in some polls, John McCain, is even more of an interventionist than Mr Bush. But with so many voters angry about the mad world beyond their borders, America might yet end up with both a more protectionist Congress and a president who is more reluctant to throw America`s weight around.

Caution over German jobless rise

German unemployment has unexpectedly risen above the five million mark again but experts have said the latest figures must be treated with caution.

The headline jobless rate rose 408,000 to 5.012 million in January, according to official figures, equivalent to 12.1% of the working age population.

However, analysts said the data was skewed by the unusually cold winter and forthcoming changes to benefit rules.

Government officials said the long-term unemployment trend was falling.

Seasonal lay-offs

In other troubling news for the German economy, data also released on Tuesday showed a 1.4% fall in retail sales in December.

The figures reinforced recent concerns that Germany`s fledgling economic recovery could be held back by weak domestic demand.

Separately, France reported a drop in unemployment in December from 9.6% to 9.5% and a rise in consumer confidence last month.

Nasah, in a world of limited resources and ever increasing consumers, this has been a battle humanity has tried through for eons..this is not some novel concept you are railing against. Even under the Mughals, the Indians controlled a 1/4 of world trade. That didn;t mean Indians were rich..it meant the Mughals were. Fancies of Taj Mahal didn`t have to be vetted through public discourse on appropriations of funds. Bush or no Bush.... All this doomsday bullsiht I hear about the demise of America is more wishful thinking and sour grapes than reality. I agree with you on all else.

the problem with OUR pursuit of happiness -- RIGHT NOW -- is that it is somebody else`s NIGHTMARE....for no fault of theirs......

after Bush anomaly is gone -- things will return to Jeffersonian norms...don`t worry....this is not a frozen land .....it is one of most sagacious self-correcting self-renovating self-regenerating mercurial countries in the world.....that spirit is not going to die......

the rumors of the death or demise of American dream in Mark Twain`s words -- are highly exaggerated...

BJ, we are saying the same thing. It is amazing to me that the principles set forth in the declaration of independence still ring true today..the evolution of the concept of ``pursuit of happiness`` is what I am reflecting on. For Jefferson and Madison, it might have very well meant landed gentry, but for me it means a level playing field where I can achieve happiness through whatever means get me there. And I have no qualms about the ``specialness`` of being an American being equated to exclusivity. The folks beating down the American embassy doors around the world are proof of that.

Sometimes I think, if the esteemed writer of this trite garbage disguised as an article, actually worked for a living, spoke to the first and second generation immigrants from S Asia, Latin America, Heck go farther back..jews and Italians..he/she might understand what the ``American Dream`` truly means. Maybe a refresher on Horatio ALger to set the mood before diving into some real HARD CORE journalism..speaking to those ``home-work-supermarket-to back home again`` unenlightened folks who just might be realizing their American dream.

Friggin hacks!!!

dear Osama -- the American dream is NOT dead -- by any means...

it is alive, well, kicking and invading -- happily beating, torturing, bombing, maiming, killing men women, children -- destroying their properties -- for building our dream -- all over the impoverished third world -- people who can hardly defend themselves -- either at the dead of the night or in broad day light....

.....all in pursuit of happiness...

The American Dream....it will never die......the Dream may go in Chapter Eleven -- but we can always reorganize -- by cutting our cost and cutting personnel -- so far we have cut almost three thousand personnel permanently giving them pink slips for life -- and another 17 thousand out of commission....

.....if push comes to shove we can always borrow from our friends the democratic Chinese (and let them steal our high tech).......and the progressive Saudis (who thanks to our president`s push for women`s rights will allow the women to drive) ...

....and then we`ll continue invading -- in pursuit of happiness...

#19 Chaltahai

I think you make good observations related to economics. But I must comment on your last paragraph.

It is a myth to talk about the Declaration of Independence and claim clauses therein as the basis for feeling “special” – in fact I object to the very term “special” – that term usually implies a certain degree of exclusivity and I know that most people here do not (and certainly this interactor does not) feel there is any exclusivity to being (or becoming) American – in many ways, it is merely what I feel is a stage of evolution (for the lack of a better way to describe it, from my perspective).

In my humble opinion, it is typical desi mentality that writing something in a book (or even a Book) or putting in a dictat or codifying something on paper makes it HAPPEN! It never does until those for who it is believe in it from heart BEFORE they put it in and continue to believe in it afterwards with enough stength of conviction to carry them through those trying times which would make it VERY difficult to continue to believe in it.

May I also remind you that the passages that you refer to in the Declaration of Independence were written BEFORE there was an America (as we know it).

May I also remind you that people who put in those passages had a very different vision from what we carry today in our own mind! Think back of the phrase “all men are created equal” and reconcile that with the drudgery that the slaves went through in those same times! And even otherwise, if you believe that this country has not in the past indulged in “protectionist” policies (and perhaps in some areas still does) I would beg to differ (even though it is not my area of expertise).

In my view, it’s simply the openness of the thought-process that counts – the thought that evolves –otherwise it’s merely dead thought – and it would be as dead as the parchment on which it gets captured – and those who are stuck on dead thoughts and are captives of dead parchment are the ultimate of the captives!

One can only be as American as one feels in his or her heart!

Firstly, the anticipated American decline. Let`s assume globalization is here to stay (which it is). How do you figure the decline of a ccountry, vis-a-vis Eu which outspends the latter ion R&D, outperforms the latter on productivity, outshines the latter on capital markets vestment for it`s citizens. This is one aspect. If the EU and the US are to go their separate ways, i.e. become competitive/combative, the social safety net in Europe, that US has subsidized by providing a protective umbrella to the EU as far as defense goes,...will fall flat if defense spending in the Eu was to match the US. The very paradigm of Europian compassionate capitalism i.e. socialistic leanings will be testing gravely.

kulharee mentioned the unemployment, social issues re: identity, assimilation etc..are all indications of a failed multiculturalist policy coming to bite Europe in their proverbial ass.

On to Asia and the US. It is silly to lump in Pakistan,Malaysia with INdia and China. The globalization train is an express train that makes limited stops...malaysia and Pakistan can benefit as stations but not regional hubs or catalysts of growth or the fuel for this train. Countries like INdia and CHina are not bound by the same limitations as Pakistan and Malaysia. CHinese have a deplorable capital markets system and India poor infrastructure. (both of which are opportunities that provide jobs, raise income levels for the citizenry and funds for the gov`t) What INdia and CHina are trying to do, has to be taking into account by viewing them in their own paradigm, not in comparison to the US. The momentum driven growth within these two countries took almost 50% less time to the reach the same level of wealth creation for the citizenry as it did in the US. Economies that are this large are the bell weather for global health. When US sneezes, the whole world catches a cold, when INdia will sneeze in 2 decades, EU will get pneumonia.

I will agree with one thing, the concept of why us Americans feel special. It is written in our declaration of independence. No other country in the world offers an individual the ``pursuit of happiness``..it is an intangible and totally subjective concept..yet no other document in the history of mankind lays out the individuals right to happiness. This is the American dream. This country will emain the most special because America places an emphasis on the individual. Indian and China can produce as many scientists as they want...but only this country offiers the ability for a talented individual to achieve what he feels will make him happy by gauranteeing happiness. That can be in form of patent rights protection, if you are an inventor, capital if you are an entrepreneur, forum to speak your mind no matter how crude your dissertation is..and lastly..no restraints on yourself to assume risk personal or financial to achieve your happiness.

Re: # 14 james

All I have is second-hand information - I have never lived in europe - I just transit thru the airports....:)

But - there have been revealing reports in wake of riots in france..... in some european countries - they don`t allow citizenships to childrens of the immigrants - i think it was germany..... so all in all - it looks pretty bad....

James. Race relations in Europe are less than appalling. The unemployment among North African youth (2nd and 3rd generation migrants) is 7 times the national average in France. In Germany, the Turks, who have lived since the early 60s, still have little to none presence in Politics (and a minute in academia, arts, or culture). It is the case pretty much all over Europe. For the most part, migrants there work only in secondary labor market. In the Netherlands, where Muslims makeup 5.5 % of the country’s population, over 60% battered women in halfway houses are “Muslim” migrants. Yes, they have been abused by their brothers/fathers for “dishonoring” the family by dating a “white” guy (that tells you how integrated they are there). Immigrants (Muslims in particular) are living on the fringes of the society in Europe. They are disfranchised and are not part of the mainstream Europe. Being disenfranchised is worse than experiencing racism or bigotry, because one cannot fight it from the outside.

I am sure you must have heard what happened in France not long ago (I am assuming that you get the Fox news in Europe).

And yeah, Germany’s unemployment rate in January 06 is 12.1%. It has gotten a tad bit better in the last quarter of 05. Germans are slowly waking up from their social dream (call it their American Dream) and have raised their retirement age to 68.

Re: # 13

mohar main,


...... i hate to say this but it is true - people will say strange things after a few drinks ....... and even though this type of overt racism is rare, you can sense it in many other ways specially when they speak in english and use terms like ``these people`` for the turks or you see the almost total absence of turks and north africans in the professional ranks ...........

.......... look, i don`t have statistical data to prove this feeling, but i do have extensive dealings with europeans .........even though it is much easier to get through at the airport, once you are in, you don`t feel too wlecome - maybe if you spoke the language it woud be different, but i doubt it ........ the attitudes are different ........... now i have to go and get on a call with these damn europeans ( it gives me endless pleasure to keep them up till eight in the evening!) ..... i`ll try to explain it later.........

#12 Hamidm

The dig on your saying “God Bless America” was for its entertainment value – I fully understand your own sentiments (and have done so for a while) on that issue. I can only add “Amen” to those. I also have the feeling that our children (and especially their children) are not very likely to be frequenting a web site like this – it is just a fact of life that they will carry identities quite different from ours – again an American reality and no dream!

(PS: I personally think your interact index should be at least 4.0. If there is a limit on the total, perhaps chowk should take some away from Manto. Also, you may be overestimating the real clout of editors (except perhaps in their own minds.))

Re: # 13
I am ``coloured`` and live in Europe. I have never faced any racial abuse.

Re: # 7 hamidm
[.....``we don`t like turks and indians, they are worthless.......... we`d rather get guys from poland and hungary who at least understand our culture,``.. a german collegue in hamburg told me .]

Is that a true incident - or just one of your ``editorials`` :)?.... Just curious - because I would imagine the german would be a little cicumspect saying such stuff to your colored face....your penchant for ``finest cabernet sauvignon `` notwithstanding.... :)

But again - I have heard of blatant racism prevalent in european countries towards colored people - so I would not be surprised.....