The Dispatches on War (Part VIII)

in many historical narratives i find a reason for a western power supremacy lied in the canon or the gun or some similar technology. i feel that this is an overtly simplistic view. there were always contending western forces very willing to sell arms and fight with other western forces. guns and canons and artillery men were very much available for hire, rather cheaply by eastern standards (if you read about the salries gunners for hire got). there was more that just guns to supremacy of western forces..perhaps their determination, discipline or something else (i dont know what that is). we all will be well-served if historians discuss finer points of western naval conquests...i suspect it was to do with a general higher level of learning and ability to acquire knowledge.

#11 ferozk
Yes, I do appreciate your response. Now, I am clear about this article and it`s significance.
You are right, this article is only interesting for some European History students, not for an average reader like myself.
Thanks

re: Zeena

Thanks for your comments.

This article was orginally under taken as a hobby, but is now geared towards my students of European history. There will be a list of bibliographic references at the end of the article. I hope to finish this series by the end of this summer and there are still about 10 or 12 more articles to write.

The articles are long, because they have to cover the ``basics`` for the benefit of the students and I can understand, that they might not be interesting to the average Chowk reader. In this sense, I am grateful to the Chowk editorial staff, which is ``indulging`` my hobby in this sense by posting these articles on the Front Page.

I am spending most of my free time finishing this series and hence, might not respond to any comments in a timely manner; so please accept my apologies.

re: bjkumar

Thank you, for kind words.

Ciao

the fight of spices stirred and spiced the wars. spanish could have countered the english by uniting with france and introducing the ideas of piracy and having a strong hold.

where are the muslims in this whole scenario. muslims have been manipulated all these centuries, the technology which the muslims fathered, grew and evolved and the generation of which are being used against us.

east india company was made for spice but Ladies like Elizabeth and their support with the ignorance of muslims led to the political downfall.

while spanish, dutch, portugese and english people were busy exploring the avenues and americas, what were the muslims doing? ravishing the Khotas? and drinking and shairo shairi?

Agharchay Masjid hai bohot duur,
Chalo ek rotay bachay ko hee hansalein.

hum to bachchay ko bhi nahi hansa sakay, afsos, aaj hum toofaanoan mein beh gaye.

8 bjkumar
Well, I appreciate your courtesy to respond to my prior post and said sorry. Here on chowk, people abuse others and then saying sorry is not in their dictionary. That makes you obviously a decent interactor in my eyes. Thanks

Now, come to the topic at hand, You stated, {{``My dear, there IS a difference! I happen to have immense respect for the author and mine was constructive criticism - yours was all negative.``}}}}

Now, just read my post #1 {{{#2 by Zeena on February 11, 2006 2:20pm PT
Dear writer
This article is as long as a snake could be. This is informative article, but, like #1 pointed out, we all can read this info and much much more, on internet , if, we click European history. So, what`s the point of this article?

Only point I can see is (comparison) of present day Europe with past Europe and also it`s comparison with Asian progress.}}}}}

Now, my dear bjkumar
You see here lies your objectivity about my criticism. How can you justify my criticism is negative based on my one post, which was actually meant to be (as if, I second to your post #1). I pointed out your post and agreed with your criticism with the addition of my criticism for this article to be, too long in a humorous way to compare it`s length to that of a snake (it was not in bad taste at all). Positive criticism is always the one, when you can criticize any writer by making it lighter and lil funny and at the same time by pointing out the exact theme which the article lacks.

Negative and positive criticism, a thin line to differentiate. You see you took my criticism as negative, while I was just repeating your opinion in post #1 and you took your own opinion positive, while you already rejected your own opinion through my post #2. Now, you have become yourself judge, victim, attorney and offender. By leaving NO choice for me.

Take care

I meant ``Zeena``, not ``Zina`` - sorry about the typo!

#5, #6 by Zina

Zina, you got it all mixed up. No malice was intended. ``Pathetic`` was not meant to be a literal description of your condition (I have no idea of the actual state of your condition - solid, liquid, or just gas). It was a phrase which indicated that your communication style left a bit to be desired. (And it was a lot better term than ``snake`` - we all know the association of that term with the garden of Eden.)

However, if your sensibilities got run roughshod over - I am sorry - no reason to take umbrage. (Also, this is my last nick - and if you get truly mad at me - certain shadowy creatures may use that excuse to send me packing - you see why I am behaving nice!)

[BTW, who makes you an authority to call us pathetic, while you also criticised the same article on first place]

My dear, there IS a difference! I happen to have immense respect for the author and mine was constructive criticism - yours was all negative.

You appear to be absolutely distressed over the absence of references in this article - a suggestion which was made earlier. Perhaps such a list will stoke our collective curiosities and stimulate an unquenchable thirst for knowledge regarding the Portugal of bygone days. However, when I thought about it some more, it appears to me that this article is actually a chapter which is part of a larger book. You may have seen books - they usually contain references at the END! So, if we just wait for this series to end - presto, your cherished bibliography will be found staring into the face. See, mystery solved!

#4 bjkumar
BTW, who makes you an authority to call us pathetic, while you also criticised the same article on first place ?

We have all the right to criticise, like you have, I did not call you pathetic?

So, take home lesson is, never ever call anyone pathetic based on your on narrowminded one sided approach. You take no second to jump to abuse anyone anytime on internet. Well, in my eyes, fairly you seem pathetic on your knee jerk reaction. Be cool, relaxed and just focus on the article.

So, where I was, haaan, I was discussing about sources of the articles.
Dear writer
Will it be possible for you, if, you can provide us with references? I just wish to research myself. European History is quite interesting. If, you compare them what they and what they are, certainly we give them a lots of credit for such a their development in few centuries.

#4 bjkumar
Please, excuse your language. We are not here to take any kind of abuse.
By using word``pathetic``, for us makes you highly offensive and more pathetic, who is unable to comprehend any healthy criticism.........................

I never laugh at people, I always stick to the topic of the article. All I was pointing out was, this article is, too long to read, and not only that quite boring with no point to discuss.

The writer of this article did not write this article on his own. Obviously he got all this info. via some reference books or internet info., which I can do in 1-2 hors, just by googling or by reading European History books in any local university.

This article is not in a good taste, as it did not give us any reference books names or other info resources based on his research for European History at the end, which is the basic rule which got neglected clearly by the writer.

#2, #3

You guys(?) are pathetic. Is this all you can accomplish - laugh at others` write-up? why don`t you come up with your own write-up - for Pete`s sake?

Although I expressed my concerns as well as I could in #1, one must be fair - and it is also quite clear to me that this author has good intentions and is attempting to educate us with a rather lucidly written account of a whole bunch of events from the past - which are of some interest to - to those who are interested in such things.

Just contrast this with some of the OTHER stuff on the front page - which looks like the literary version of an act of self-stimulation carried to its roaring climax in full public view!

`This article is as long as a snake could be.`

LOL Zeena.

LIkhe Moosa, PaDhe Khuda!.
Moosa writes to impress God, not mere mortals.

Dear writer
This article is as long as a snake could be. This is informative article, but, like #1 pointed out, we all can read this info and much much more, on internet , if, we click european history. So, what`s the point of this article???

Only point I can see is (comparasion) of present day Europe with past Europe and also it`s comparasion with Asian progress.

I admit that this is the first of your articles that I have read. (Articles with Roman numerals in the title can be intimidating to some.) Therefore, I am unfamiliar with the flow of the series, what direction it is heading toward and what the point of the series is. Needless to say, it is quite informative - but please forgive me for being upfront - what is the original stuff - isn`t most of this information already available to individuals (through internet, encyclopedias, etc.)?

(By the way, citing the references may be a good idea. Also, it will probably be a good idea to put in more of the actual figures (numbers) for the years of events. Also, you tend to liberally throw in the names of historical figures and characters left and right - as if EVERYBODY knows them - a short clause on who these were will help. A few sentences here and there about what you are about to delve into will be quite useful, too. A summary paragraph (either in the beginning or at the end) will help individuals like me immensely.)

So why write all of this stuff HERE? Most readers here would probably be unable to critique it in any meaningful way anyway - one needs peers for that - and I personally doubt that the current board of editors fits that bill. (I might be wrong about these shadowy figures but I don`t think so.)

Most of the events and characters you bring up are dead people and things - what`s the appeal to the layperson?

Do you think the value will improve if you tried to draw parallels to present day events (or those from the recent past). (I realize that doing so will give it a more subjective tint but it will also make it more ALIVE, in my view.)

What good is history, if it has no lessons for us?

Indeed, from the viewpoint of this interactor, one of the REAL problems with the desi crowd is we spend too much time thinking about bygone times - as if we enjoy the afeem-like stupor of the bygone days!

Hope you don`t take my comments the wrong way (and certainly no disrespect to your credentials is intended (as if I don`t value this last nick of mine!)), I am being honest - and I am sure others have thought along those lines - but are simply too much chicken to say it (Ah, our very own, VERY brave foot soldiers of that glorious subcontinent!)