The Uncertain Future of India-Pakistan-Iran Pipeline

re:#187 by behram1
Ha, ha.
Harami is now quoting an article written by a Hindu!
Sridhar

191

That was true until the new president guy started shooting off his mouth about wiping israel off the map..... I mean, what`s iran`s problem with Israel anyway? What exactly did jews did to Iran?.... nothing..... After that kind of bombastic threat - what do you expect?.... Iranis are actively seeking trouble....and they are going to get it.... It ain`t nobody else`s fault....

I mean, if they really have to make the bomb - all they have to do is hunker down and make the bomb.... why shoot off mouth... stupidity knows no bounds.....

#189
In light of this, it`s quite understandable that iran would want to have the bomb. They have never initiated a war against another country and here they are, surrounded on all sides by a nation that labeled them an ``axis of evil`` and threatens to attack and has been invading and occupying sovereign nations quite unprovoked.

Re: # 183 subroto
[....If so then please let me know for I too can be really articulate and offer some similar meaningful interacts....]

Bring it on - We at chowk love all that stuff....:)

Even after Iraq, 57% support an attack on Iran..Idiot Ahmedinejad has done the impossible..he`s made warmongering cool again..

Hawks have warplanes ready if the nuclear diplomacy fails
By Richard Beeston, Diplomatic Editor
IT IS the option of last resort with consequences too hideous to contemplate. And yet, with diplomacy nearly exhausted, the use of military force to destroy Iran’s nuclear programme is being actively considered by those grappling with one of the world’s most pressing security problems.

For five years the West has used every diplomatic device at its disposal to entice Iran into complying with strict conditions that would prevent its nuclear programme being diverted to produce an atomic bomb.

Those efforts, however, are now faltering. US leaders are openly discussing the looming conflict. A recent poll showed that 57 per cent of Americans favoured military intervention to stop Iran building a bomb.

Tehran scoffs at threats by the West, has pledged to press on with its nuclear progamme and defend itself if attacked.

The military option may be the only means of halting a regime that has threatened to annihilate Israel from developing a bomb and triggering a regional nuclear arms race.

Experts agree that America has the military capability to destroy Iran’s dozen known atomic sites. US forces virtually surround Iran with military air bases to the west in Afghanistan, to the east in Iraq, Turkey and Qatar and the south in Oman and Diego Garcia. The US Navy also has a carrier group in the Gulf, armed with attack aircraft and Tomahawk cruise missiles. B2 stealth bombers flying from mainland America could also be used.

The air campaign would not be easy. The Iranians have been preparing for an attack. Key sites are ringed with air defences and buried underground. Sensitive parts of the Natanz facility are concealed 18 meters (60ft) underground and protected by reinforced concrete two meters thick. Similar protection has been built around the uranium conversion site at Esfahan.

“American air strikes on Iran would vastly exceed the scope of the 1981 Israeli attack on the Osiraq centre in Iraq, and would more resemble the opening days of the 2003 air campaign against Iraq,” said the Global Security consultantcy.

Lieutenant-Colonel Sam Gardiner, a former US Air Force officer, predicted that knocking out nuclear sites could be over in less than a week. But he gave warning that would only be the beginning.

Iran has threatened to defend itself if attacked. It could use medium-range missiles to hit Israel or US military targets in Iraq and the region. It could also use its missiles and submarines to attack shipping in the Gulf, the main export route for much of the world’s energy needs. “Once you have dealt with the nuclear sites you would have to expand the targets,” said Lieutenant-Colonel Gardiner. “There are another 125 to deal with including chemical plants, missile launchers, airfields and submarines.”

While this huge US offensive is underway Iran would almost certainly deploy its most powerful weapon. It would unleash a counter-attack through proxies in the region. Hezbollah, the Lebanese Shia militia, would attack Israel. Moqtadr al-Sadr, the militant Iraqi Shia religious leader, could order his Mahdi Army to rise up against American and British forces in Iraq. Iranian-backed groups could wreak havoc against Western targets across the world.

What began as a military operation to maintain a balance of power in the Middle East, could instead plunge the region into another conflict.

“It will have to be diplomats, not F15s that stop the mullahs,” said Joseph Cirincione, an expert on non-proliferation at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “An air strike against the uranium conversion facility at Esfahan would inflame Muslim anger, rally the Iranian public around an otherwise unpopular government. Finally, the strike would not, as it often said, delay the Iranian programme. It would almost certainly speed it up,” he wrote in an article.

behram: great quote from kierkegaard. unfortunately, the article unintentionally illustrates the point of the quote - by writing things stupid, ignorant things like:

1. ``It is they (europeans), with their agendas for endless growth and prosperity (self-enrichment), who have enslaved everyone in their jobs ``: Wrong. The fact is that today the europeans work much less than they ever did before. In summers, european streets are emptied as europeans had for the beaches around the mediterranean.

2. ``It is they who have sought cheap labor from North Africa, the Middle East and many poor parts of the world``: Wrong. North Africans and middle easterners are falling over themselves to get to europe - just a few months ago, they actually physically stormed a spanish island (knowning that once on spanish soil, spanish laws apply and they would spend months in legal proceedings before being deported or finding some loophole).

By writing such patently absurd stuff, the author thus illustrates his own slavish mind that is incapable of breaking the shackles of anti-westernism that bind too many third world people.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HB07Ak03.html

SPEAKING FREELY
The misplaced defense of free speech
By Aseem Shrivastava

``People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.``
- 19th-century Danish Christian philosopher Soren Kierkegaard


{It is often heard in Europe (less often in the United States) nowadays that immigrants – and Muslims more than others – are destroying the age-old culture of the West. It is true that Western culture has seen far more happy times, when the meaning of life was not lost. However, if truth be acknowledged, nobody has robbed Europe of its culture and its heritage as effectively as the organized greed of multinational corporations.

It is they, with their agendas for endless growth and prosperity (self-enrichment), who have enslaved everyone in their jobs (when they are lucky to have one), who have made people too busy to dance, sing and create culture. It is they who have sought cheap labor from North Africa, the Middle East and many poor parts of the world, often sending headhunters to these countries looking for workers cheaper than their own. It is they who have brought on the more or less rapid unraveling of the welfare state, robbing the working classes of the benefits of public services while levying more taxes from them (while reducing those that the rich pay), making them work harder, and pushing for an increase in the age for retirement. Much of this is meant to meet the competition from East Asia, especially totalitarian China, which was introduced to capitalism by president Richard Nixon and secretary of state Henry Kissinger back in the mid-1970s. }

Re:Subroto#183

[...Is there a reason abusive posts are not filtered out in Chowk?...]

Excellent point!! I appeal to the chowk editors to filter the posts of both Indian and Pakistani interactors that are consistently abusive. It has become very difficult to follow any article when the discussion gets hijacked by behram1, arjun_m etc.

Let people know about nuclear deal with U.S.: former Ambassadors

Special Correspondent

NEW DELHI: Eight former Bangalore-based Ambassadors have expressed disquiet over the secrecy surrounding the negotiations with the United States on separation of civilian and military nuclear facilities.

They have urged the Government to share with the people ``all that they are legitimately entitled to know.``

``Given the sharp divergence of opinion on this landmark agreement and the strong passion it has generated in the country, the very least that the Government could do, before finalising the terms of implementation, is to present a full picture to the Indian public of

where we are heading...

``Not only the strategic community and the scientific community but also concerned citizens have the right to know and should have access to full and correct information,`` the former envoys said in a statement.

The signatories are C.B. Muthamma, who was in Hungary and the Netherlands;

N. Krishnan, who was stationed as the former Permanent Representative of India at the United Nations;

A.P. Venkateswaran, former Foreign Secretary;

A. Madhavan, who was posted in Japan and Germany;

Peter Lynn Sinai, who had worked in Austria and was the Representative to the International Atomic Energy Agency;

C.V. Ranganathan, who represented India in China and France;

A.M. Khaleeli, who was based in Iran and Italy,

P.A. Nazareth, who served in Egypt and Mexico

---

exactly -- let`s see how cheaply the Mongoloid Bush Khan is getting the pathetic Congress walas to be his Towel Boys when he bloodies his hands in Iran......

ahem...DM...

Pakistani gas pipeline blown up

Tribesmen have blown up a gas pipeline in Pakistan`s troubled southern province of Balochistan, officials say.

Armed militants also fired more than 200 rockets at a major base belonging to the Pakistani security forces in the area, they said.

Both attacks took place in the district of Dera Bugti, about 350km (250 miles) from the provincial capital, Quetta.

The situation in Balochistan has deteriorated with increasing violence between rebels and security forces.

Dera Bugti is Pakistan`s main gas producing area.

The district co-ordination officer, Abdul Samad Lasi, said a gas well and a 60-foot gas pipeline were damaged in the attack.

``These people have also planted landmines on major roads in Dera Bugti, and we are advising people to avoid travel until we clear the landmines,`` the Associated Press news agency quoted him as saying.

Powerful tribesmen

One security person was injured in the rocket attack on the base of the paramilitary Frontier Corps which also damaged nearby government buildings, Mr Lasi said.

Tribal militants in Balochistan, the source of Pakistan`s main gas reserves, are demanding greater control over natural resources.

They are said to be led by Nawab Akbar Bugti, the leader of one of the most powerful tribes in the area.

The army launched a major crackdown last month after rockets were fired during a visit by President Pervez Musharraf.

Is there a reason abusive posts are not filtered out in Chowk? Or does Chowk Staff believe that they really enhance the discussions here. If so then please let me know for I too can be really articulate and offer some similar meaningful interacts.

nasah
[....mohar miaN -- be thankful...]

Yeah - sure, we are all thankful to commies for leaving a billion people poor and pathetic ..... you must be out of your mind....

re: China versus India debate
While some people in this forum are as usual spreading their excrement as usual, in the corporate sector the question is: Is it China or India.
The following article is more gung-ho about China than India:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/02/06/ubric.xml&sSheet=/money/2006/02/06/ixcitytop.html
(China versus India transfixes business world
By Robert Miller (Filed: 06/03/2006)

For years it has been the development of China and India as the world`s biggest emerging markets that has kept investors agog with the prospect of enormous returns.

A factory in Shizuishan, China
Jim O`Neill believes China is `slightly better positioned` to deliver on its potential

Now, however, it is China versus India and the growing rivalry between the two that has transfixed the business world as both powers engage in a new form of combat to outdo each other as the emerging world force this century.

Jim O`Neill, the Goldman Sachs seer who is just back from the World Economic Forum at Davos, the talking shop for world leaders, says: ``This year the contest between China and India to become the next big influence on the world economy emerged as a dominant issue.``

It was in the Swiss ski resort that the Indian government launched a campaign to persuade the world that when it comes to doing business a democratic India is the place to be. Davos delegates arrived at a Zurich airport plastered with adverts proclaiming ``India: Fastest Growing Free Market Democracy``. Davos itself was bedecked by the same message. The clear inference being that democracy beats autocracy when it comes to doing business.

But is that necessarily true? Certainly the two are in the same race when it comes to economic growth. In his latest Global Economics Weekly bulletin, Mr O`Neill reckons that so rapid is China`s growth ``it could overtake the US by 2035, six years sooner than we estimated in 2003.``

Mr O`Neill predicts that at about the same time ``India may be overtaking Japan``, the world`s second largest economy.

So both are growing at a far more dramatic rate than Mr O`Neill first forecast. ``However, if we were forced to choose between the two, our most objective assessment would be that China is, at this point in time, slightly better positioned to deliver on its potential than India.``

The Goldman`s forecast is based on its own growth environment score, which consists of 13 variable items, including local schooling, tax and law and order issues, rather than solely on economic indicators such as gross domestic product (GDP).

``Our scorecard is revealing. China did better than India on virtually all components. Only in terms of `rule of law` and `corruption` did India score more highly than China.``

India`s supposed superiority in education, for instance, is a myth, says Mr O`Neill. ``Although India does have an English-speaking educational elite, the depth and breadth of the education system, particularly at the primary and secondary levels, falls very short of the standards necessary to deliver India`s growth potential.``

Mark Williams, manager of Foreign &Colonial`s Pacific Growth fund, says: ``Perceptions of China and India as economies based entirely on low-cost manufacturing are starting to change. I believe that a key theme during 2006 will be a growing recognition of the importance of the emerging Chinese service sector.

``These services are not the low-end call centres historically associated with India, but increasingly value added one in rising competition with the developed world, including London.``

For Ian Kernohan, economist at Royal London Asset Management, the rapid growth of China in particular means the country has to make some important adjustments.

``A reorientation of China`s growth towards domestic demand remains one of the biggest prizes in global rebalancing,`` he explains.

``The two major long term issues it faces now are both the result of high levels of economic growth. Income equality has risen and pollution has become a problem in many urban areas. The strong fiscal position should help the government to alleviate any social tensions which arise from the growth in inequality, through a combination of tax cuts and increased public spending.``

Mr Kernohan suggests the problem of pollution ``is a much more difficult issue to tackle, particularly given China`s dependence on coal for electricity generation.``)
Sridhar

re:#164 by arjun_m
You probably did not follow my post.
I was just making an observation that there was a time (during the Cold War) when India was seen as the leader of non-aligned movement. Remember the time when Yasser Arafat and Fiedel Castro rubbed shoulders with Indira Gandhi during the NAM meets?
India could then defy the West (no doubt to its own detriment).
Now things have changed. India is fast globalising and her interests are served by aligning with the West.
Sridhar

Crazy Indian monkies are on the loose. Garbage eaters are infesting this site with same old cut & paste. Sperm eaters have their mouths between the legs of Iran, and have sugar canes being inserted by Pakistan. Their skulls are empty with huge godown between their hearing posts. They are begging for mercy from the Saudi King, but he is now recommending some khajoor injected sugar canes instead.

Indians are strange creatures hard for humans to understand.

But then - these folks were NOT ruling India 40 years since the beginning of the country....were they?.....No - commies were ruling ..... and they made the country as it exists today - poor, wretched and pathetic ........

mohar miaN -- be thankful -- thank God those Hindutva vultures were NOT -- as the eager beaver chilum boys for the then Uncle Sam for 59 years -- they would have made the country as -- `poor wretched and pathetic` -- as Pakistan....:)