Heidi Fleiss and Shahrukh Khan – Spot the Difference!

Re:HP#17

[...You will rarely find a woman(barring south asian) in this country, who will hesitate to make the first move…Now obviously that is something you don’t know as no one would approach you. Your dilemma is pronounced.…. ]

HPji, How are you so sure that no one approaches us desi guys? Its all a funciton of the almighty dollar. Pure economics (except for college, where it is hormones)!!

Just show the moolah, and any american girl, chinese girl, desi girl or whatever, will come to you. Especially american girls who are crazy about money. And you know us desis have boatloads of the almighty dollar these days. You drive a BMW and work as a VP in a company, you can pretty much do anything, as long as you are in reasonable physical shape.

#17 HP

First HP, I am going to disregard all the inflammatory words which you drop like droppings everywhere you care to park your interact. (Call it a new year’s resolution, if you will.) Such words reveal a lot more of you and reflect very little on me or the topic.

(And you should go back and read some your own posts to appreciate how full of generalizations they are – and when somebody points them out to you, you fall back into the Bill Clinton mode of having used “not uncommon” and not “common” – talk about abusing words! Well, it does not wash – it’s too much weasel-like – and everyone can see through them!)

It is a downright criminal act, or ought to be, to take my words “drudgery and toil” and then state with a straight face that Indian village life is being depicted as “pious village” life. How dishonest can one get!

Also, kindly refrain from lecturing me about suburbia America – I happen to know a thing or two about it from close range – and I have no special regard for the depth of some of your pronouncements on the same. And it never ceases to amuse me to see individuals so enamored with the superficial shell of isolated instances to glibly draw sweeping generalizations regarding the whole country – such people can NEVER appreciate the strong moral core running through this country, which allows this country to survive and thrive in spite of the aberrations which such individuals think are the norms.

(I have already clearly stated what I think of Mr. Shah Rukh Khan and there is no need to repeat those thoughts again.)

There is one part of your statements that must be immediately staked (as one would stake a vampire). Anybody who thinks that women treat sex with the same casualness as men is the one who is fully unaware of the facts of life. Men and women ARE different and my reference to anatomy should not be hostage to YOUR limited imagination which appears to confine itself to sexual organs. There are significant hormonal differences, there are different ways of looking at things, and there IS a difference in how things get perceived – by the two sexes. By and large, women attach more significance to little gestures and are more sentimental and can only be intimate at a deeper level – never like men – men can be more casual about it – after all, they are the original inventors of the term “one night stand”.

The same applies to the reference to baggage – it was not a reference to the birth of babies, which is truly a miracle of nature – it referred to the emotional baggage that women are saddled with in a broken relationship while men carry on as “no big deal”. Again, dear HP, your responses reveal a lot more about yourself than my original terms.

You see HP, it is a lot easier for men to simply “pull out”!

I am waiting to see when does this degenirate into Pak vs Indian, Kashmir, RSS etc

In the meantime I really enjoyed this take on Heidi (and yes, you did sucker us in to read it) and Salim, do you post articles on chowk. You should your gift for the gab is fantastic (and stay away f rom that creep)

what, Farzana, I thought you had a scoop, Shahrukh khan in heidi,s stud farm and a pic where we get to spot the difference bet shahrukh and one of her studs.
In Paheli the ghost is also shown to take care of the woman`s emotional needs also and not just lusting after her.

On side not:-
By opening up a male brothel, Heidi stood up against male discrimination in sex workers profession. Now, male sex workers can equally enjoy their careers with as much dedication as their female counterparts do!!!!

Hahahaaaaaaa

#14 by bjkumar

Beej,

I am aware of your impotent rage on many issues and I know how quickly you lose the handle. However, I will try and reason with you disregarding the fact that reason never stops in your village and passes by you quickly.

I am not generalizing anything. I have used words like plenty not “all”, I have used “whole bunch” not “everyone”, and I have used “not uncommon” and not “Common”. I am not generalizing. Since you are stuck in your head about preserving the ``sanctity`` of the Indian village, you make assumptions that are ridiculous.

I am merely pointing out that these things exist. I am not saying that every woman in an Indian village has sex outside of marriage but many do. Since when poverty stopped people from having sex? No, it is not on a catastrophic level but it is there. Loot nahin machi hoi phir bhi kaafi drama hai there.

You need to read my post with the article in mind. I am making a point that things do happen in the rural areas and Shahrukh khan did have a point. There is no mystery in that. It is clearly some thing that a society needs to accept instead of covering it up.

Women have desires and needs as much as men do. In the Indian society, they have been treated so badly for centuries that they have developed a defensive mechanism. (Indian society =Pak-India both). That mechanism allows them to deflect confrontation. When a woman ends up on the wrong side of the society she pays a heavy price for sharing the emotions with a man in private.

You and Farzana are arguing the same thing. She thinks women should be treated like a sati savatri. Her camouflage is women’s lib and yours is the “pious village”. Women should be treated like the way you treat yourself. Nothing more or nothing less.


“there always exists a certain level of extra-marital hanky-panky. Your implicit assumption that it is any higher in remote Indian villages compared to the suburbia Americana is so ludicrous that it’s not even worth commenting.”

And where did I imply that? implicit? ridiculeous!

Now understand this: what is hanky–panky in your perverted little head in an Indian village is a perfectly normal behavior in suburbia or exurbia the US.

There is nothing hanky-panky in a woman having sex, whether she lives in an Indian village or in Peoria, IL. Marriage or not, It is her choice.

There is no crime in having sex outside of marriage; there is no crime in woman having sex with a man on her free will. She has every right to pursue a man if she feels like it. All these things are not your decision but a woman’s choice. A woman having sex outside of marriage should never be the society’s problem. It should only be the husband’s problem. I guess this is a hard concept for you to follow.

“Your wholesale generalization of the American womanhood”

I would only say that you don’t know…live outside of your daal roti life and you will find out how things work. You will rarely find a woman(barring south asian) in this country, who will hesitate to make the first move…Now obviously that is something you don’t know as no one would approach you. Your dilemma is pronounced.….

“Men and women NEVER pay the same price for pleasure – in ANY part of the world. Nature saw to that – anatomically.”

As usual you are being ridiculous. Learn about anatomy too. The source is the same; just inverted.

But the issue of price was in terms of sexual gratification and I have yet to see a woman paying less for the same services. Not in the good ole USofA.

Btw, those who hold the “bag” pay the price for the mistake not pleasure….

Calling pregnancy a ``bag`` is the grossest thing I have heard in a long time.

Farzana Versey
Chief-editor
Once, again you gave us a very different, but, well written article. Good work.
You have given all of us a point to ponder? To think.
{{It has now become our overarching ambition to reveal liberalism through the libido.
These are personal choices and one wishes that they were not marketed as path-breakers.

This has less to do with revolution and more to do with instincts. }}}}

Heidi Fliess, totally misunderstood the exact physiology of women. And, funny thing is, she herself is female.
I believe Heidi is one ignorant creature, misguided by the confusion of differentiating between liberation and sex mania , perversion and pathologic libido.(to have libido is basic human physiology), but, libido bcomes pathologic, when it leads towards perversion to mania, that women and men start using dildos..........................................................
Again, men have more libido than women, except those women with mental derailing. So, all Heidi wishes to do is helping men to stand up for their masculine rights and compete with their women counterparts in prostitution.
Hey, who knows, her male brothels will be a huge success!!! You aint see nothin yet.

I don`t see Indian movies that much, so, hard for me to grip what exactly Shah rukh`s movie was all about?
But, if I go by your article, it looks like some deprived wife is trying to struggle with her sexual fantasies in the absence of her husband. Well, i guess Haidi`s idea of male brothel lies behind such deprived wives, who are unable to quench their thirst of libido. May be Haidi will become an icon and sexual guru with millions of female clients to buy sex in line??
HaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaHahaha

Take care

`Neither of them knows what women want and what women are.`

This charade of expectations.. this twisitng of agendas, creating a strawman to be thrashed away by a `knower of women`, has been going on for too long and getting too thin now. Nobody, not the least Fliess, really cares about women`s issues. Fliess with her plans, cannot be accused of anything except trying to make money. Burdening her to address women`s problems is, like kaka`s attempts to make women (of all ages) feel important by flirting with them.

And this `knowing and understanding women` routine is getting old (not just Versey but in popular media). Do we understand the animals we sacrifice for rituals or consumption? This analogy may seem far-fetched, but it is a lot of fun to read.

PS. scout, are you doubling for samina in her quest to belittle Versey? Or is it your own personal jealousy making it to the front? Why can`t you women let each other be???

#10 HP

Your picture of women in Indian villages is so grossly off – so far off that one could be forgiven for thinking it was conjured up after a few pegs of alcohol – or was simply a product of the gun of idle imagination shot under the cover of the darkness of utter ignorance.

You forget the very basic fact that most families in Indian villages are joint families – these families stay intact just as much out of financial necessity as tradition. Therefore, just because the husband is not present, it does not mean the women become free lady monkeys, making their posteriors freely available to each and any person with the required anatomical attribute – there is plenty of family structure still around to anchor these ladies into and stabilize them! Besides, village life is a life of drudgery and toil – stuff that booze-slurpers in the States (individuals like you, and perhaps me) can NEVER identify with. I don’t want to shock you too much – but sex is NOT the first thing on their minds. (Some of the comments you make ensures that my regard for your sharp acumen remains firmly rooted where it has been for a while.)

In any society, there always exists a certain level of extra-marital hanky-panky. Your implicit assumption that it is any higher in remote Indian villages compared to the suburbia Americana is so ludicrous that it’s not even worth commenting. One can always find isolated cases, anywhere – but picking those and claiming them as the norm is a form of intellectual dishonesty, in my view. There are greater numbers of predators present in the USA, in my view.

Your wholesale generalization of the American womanhood (“Women in at least the US do have sex for sex only with the faceless men, men they forget in the morning before buying the morning after pill”) is utterly deserving of contempt – the type of contempt which occasionally requires that individuals be tarred, feathered, and accorded a comfortable donkey ride.

Similarly, to say stuff like “Do men and women pay the same price for pleasure? In this part of the world, Yes!” is completely off the mark. Let me explain in a way which you can understand.

Men and women NEVER pay the same price for pleasure – in ANY part of the world.

Nature saw to that – anatomically.

Because only ONE side is left holding the bag, the results, of such “pleasure”!

#11, Mr. Khamkhwa,
You are welcome to congratulate the author, but please don`t drag me into your harassment. I insist that your post in #8 was an instigation and not at all an appreciation of the article as you contend. I think that you are one sick, lonely, individual with homesexual tendencies. Please stay away from me. Thank you.

Re:HP#10

[...(Indian men chew your heart out. No dice for you)..]

You had to get that in, didnt you? :-) Now arjun_m will retaliate and behram1 will retaliate against that and this board will be destroyed.....business as usual!!

mr chauhan...
my critique about the article is a valid one and congratulates the author for a job well done...why this angst over my comments...?

I have seen the movie Paheli in passing but whatever I could gather there tells me that perhaps Shahrukh was referring to a woman having freedom of pleasure in a dud marriage. I think the real difficulty with social taboos that we have in India, caused the use of a ghost, who morphed into her husband(Don’t they all become husbands once the eyes are closed?).

This subject has been handled in the subcontinent literature. I think the movie makers did have a message out subtly. Shoukat Siddiqui in his novel Khuda ki Basti handled the issue too.

There are plenty of predators in the subcontinent especially in the rural areas where women seek friendship or are pursued for sexual favors. There are whole bunch of women in the rural areas whose spouses leave village for work or have bad marriages. In villages, people know about these things and it is pretty common to see people making their moves on a suspecting or an unsuspecting woman. There are plenty of women that seek pleasure outside of marriage because there is none in the marriage. The social taboos that are placed on women, make them non aggressive and men have to take the lead but it never means that the intent or the encouragement was not there in the first place. I think if we look at what Sharukh said in the right context and have a grip on the Indian village life, we too would end up agreeing with Shahrukh that the movie did attempt to create an acceptance of such relations even when they are for the carnal pleasure only.

It is not uncommon to have SIL having relationship with BIL or even FIL. Then there are people outside the immediate family. Recently, there was a case when the woman had relationship with her FIL in Lucknow and FV wrote about that too.

The problem in the Indian context is that we can never ascertain the “who pursued whom” but the reality of such relationship is out there. Now please don’t even think that women in the subcontinent are just “moom ki guriya”. They know how the game is played and some play it very well:)

Now about Heidi Fleiss; she is using words like stud farm etc. to promote her services. The fact of the matter is there are at least four to five companies that provide escort service for women in Vegas. It is not confined to Vegas alone; all major cities in the US have these services. Women use them for different reasons.

I may also make a correction here for FV too. Women in at least the US do have sex for sex only with the faceless men, men they forget in the morning before buying the morning after pill.

At least in the US, we have come to accept aggressive women. They are aggressive in their professional and also in the sexual lives. They will pursue men, make their moves and see whether they can seduce them. (Indian men chew your heart out. No dice for you) At least in sexuality, men and women have pretty much reached equality in the US and I would say men love it too. $250 per hour is not really a high rate in Vegas.

A feminist from the subcontinent may consider that an aberration in women’s liberalism or even call it canonizing of the clit, but that really does not exist in Heidi Fleiss context. It is just business as usual and Heidi is promoting it in her old brazen way. After all she is a professional!

``Do men and women pay the same price for pleasure? ``

In this part of the world, Yes!

#8, Dear Chowk Editor,
In compliance with Chowk Interaction guidelines, please delete post #8. It has no relevance to the article and is diabolically stated to harass and insult both the author of this fine article and me. Better yet, please permanently ban Mr. Khamkwa. (with the permanent period . affixed to his nic`s posterior) for multiple nics. Thanks,

...sex, prostitutes, pimps, male domination, sexual frustrations...only a farzana versey could write with such feelings and only a salim chauhan could appreciate the machinations of a heidi fleiss...great job...

Farzana,
In posts #1, 2, and 3, we can see why literacy is not always an accurate measurement of intellect. If your beautifully written commentary on society`s perception of guiltless pleasures can be summarized as ``you wasted your energy and time on heidi fleiss and a stupid indian movie where ghosts have sex?`` then indeed the level of comprehension among opinionated Chowkies is really shameful. While from a male perspective, I found your commentary to be confusing to the point of demoralization, I must credit you with the ability to write so capably on almost any topic. Your critics in the first three posts would never make good judges in the Olympics when it comes to diving, dance, gymnastics, and any other event where subjective evaluation of talent is concerned. You have to have talent to appreciate talent. These incompetents couldn’t recite the alphabet in random order. Don`t let them discourage you - you are a fantastic writer. Please continue.