Tortured Justification of Torture

pathetic creatures like Harris -- they think that just because we are world self-deluded self- appointed police men -- we can invade foreign lands, enter foreigner`s homes at the dead of the night -- haul their fathers, sons and husbands to Abu Gharib -- and start torturing them left and right by torturing the English Syntax -- and everything will be dandy morally and judicially -- they are in for real suprise -- once they are out of power -- all those chickens are coming home to roost -- the whole Bush cabal is going to jail.....for corruption and crime against humanity.......

...despite their cynical tortured vocabulary.....

Scenario of torture as a deterrent to criminal activity is a myth. It is reassuring that Rafi Aamer has argued against justifications for torture provided by Sam Harris. This article is very timely in current socio-political climate.

Let us first look at the very idea of torture. Physical and/or mental pain has been used and is still being used in various societies as a tool for political objectives as well as in criminal justice system. In political situations, it is obviously illegal and is condoned by none, theoretically. Let us put the idea of torture in proper perspective. In Laski’s words,

“Civilization means, above all, an unwillingness to inflict unnecessary pain”.

However, prevalent idea is that use of pain is a good measure to get even in cases of crimes. It has also been argued that inflicting pain also helps prevent crimes; hence moral justification for use of pain or in other words torture.

When it comes to inflicting pain as a societal attitude for any of the above reasons, I think religions and secular systems have been incredibly similar as they both resort to using pain (in various forms). Needless to say, religious commandments for inflicting pain (Torture) are for ever contrary to secular understanding, which does have the capacity to adjust to new realities on the basis of available data, at least theoretically.

I am not sure what kind of data was available to Sam Harris that he concluded to justify use of torture for prevention of imaginary crimes. Imaginary crime scenarios are an unending slippery slope that has the capacity to create hellish set-ups for dissenting views in a society. It is also fairly clear that crimes would have been eradicated from human civilization, had the idea of inflicting pian (Punishment or torture) been valid given the long history of use of torture. Even modern data from criminal systems do not support justification for torture provided by Sam Harris. As I said, it is only secular systems that have the capacity to evolve as the human experience grows; I think Rafi Aamer has done a very good job in providing critique of Sam Harris in this article, which hopefully would help Mr. Harris rethink his ideas.

Regards.

right..NOW pakis care about american values..

On one hand American values are bad because the gitmo terrorists are being force fed..

OTOH, pakis want some payola from Uncle Sam because Pakiland arrested a majority of the terrorists who`re now in gitmo..

so which one is it? the payola or the moral high ground..

Torture, exile, rendering, kidnapping, and targeted assasinations are all those tactics that all colonial powers prior to Us used on conquered people to keep them intimidated into submission. Lets not forget the Guantanamo Bays of British era i.e. dungeons and torture complexes that British built in islands of Malta, Indeman, Marituis, West Indies, and Fiji. Descendents of our freedom fighters who were exiled there still live. However, Malta and Indeman were the true Gitmos with torture, isolation and death. Incarceration into those camps used to be called Kalapaani ki saza. And it has since then become a proverb.

Therefore, the death camps like Gitmo and those outsourced to other countries are here to stay, as long as the basic character of aggression on the other countries will remain. From time to time propaganda machinery relaeases images and news of torture and humiliation, pictures like that of Abu Gharaib and Pul Charkhi to intimidate masses. It is deliberate. If it is not deliberate then can anyone say with utmost certainity that torture cells and death camps in Iraq have been dismanteled in Iraq/ Can anyone say that toture and `extrordinary rendering` that is kidnapping has stopped after they discovered torture cells in European countries? So it is all a part of the game plan. The bigger evil is the aggression on other countries under any pretext. Stop that - no ifs ands or buts - and torture will stop automatically.

Mr. Gill,

Thank you for your encouragement. I think it`s unfortunate that subsequent to 9/11 attacks, all the luminaries of Bush administration said repeatedly that the attacks were attempted at American values and then they started the work to dismantle those very values.

Rafi

Rafi Aamer Sahib:
The greatest blow that 9/11 has served was to the American values. Torture and hidden torture (see my article ``Extreme Rendition,`` Chowk, February 21, 2005) together with domestic surveillance were categorically unacceptable before 9/11. Now people like Sam Harris are bending backwards to justify them.
Mr. Aamer`s article is timely and enlightening for its accurate analysis. I enjoyed reading the article.
Mohammad Gill