Husain, Hinduism, Hindustan: Testing Tolerance

#394 by Mantolives

Dear Yasser,

There you go spewing that venomous inflammatory rhetoric again! Oh well.

Now, regarding this “roadmap”, I fail to see how you can “exclude” individuals from putting in their two cents – terms like those are indicative of a highly dictatorial mindset – and I urge you to be more open to the ideas of others – isn’t that what chowk is all about?

Note: when you said “Good Night” it made me chuckle – it may be the darkness of night where you find yourself – but over here it is pure daylight. By golly, there is NOTHING like daylight!

Sincerely,
BJK

historical figures not visions.

bjkumar

I am open to all advice from reasonable people, but I don`t wish to get my ``roadmap`` examined by followers of a racist casteist bigoted Mahatma who believed in oppressing people because of the color of their skin or because of their caste or dietary habits. You are automically excluded from giving me any advice on the matter.

As for history- it is there. Maybe when you will read it - you will realise just how on the money my views on these historical visions is.

Good night.

Yours sincerely,

YLH

Manto:

``Thomas Friedman once publicly admitted that he was on Indian payroll.``

Did he? When was that?
In any case, if he is not on the Indian payroll, he ought to be. He has done more to promote Indian interests in the West than all their paid lobbyists put together.

#390 by Mantolives

Dear Yasser,

I was not referring to your (faulty) views on historical figures but to your inflammatory rhetoric – which is quite easy to spot and is clearly being overlooked (on this board and elsewhere) by the editor and the chowk “staff”, perhaps on purpose – which makes people wonder why.

Also, I think you make a great error in surmising that your vision of Pakistan should not be of concern to non-Pakistanis – perhaps it is another example of that “exclusivity” that I have referred to in the past. On the contrary, it would be of interest to ANY ONE from that part of the world – because it affects the whole region – isn’t that the reason people are here in the first place?

Also, if you truly care about your vision (you DO have a vision and road map, don`t you?) – you ought to be open to have it examined and discussed by others.

Unless you consider yourself all-knowing and all-seeing!

Most individuals do not attain that stage while alive.

Sincerely,
BJ Kumar.

rsridhar...

Thomas Friedman once publicly admitted that he was on Indian payroll. He obviously doesn`t research much... but one empowered Indian Muslim Minister called 100 plane attacks on America every minute to avenge the cartoons recently. As for the second largest claim... that too is bad research. According to Indian census report Indian Muslims number 137-142 million but that is irrelevant as far as any point is concerned.

As for naming your toilet roll Jinnah ... would it not be appropriate then to name your rear orifice Gandhi? Just checking.

BJ Kumar,

My view of Gandhi is based on his own collected works. If you find it ``inflammatory`` it is your problem. Unfortunately the posts I put up have been censored but you may find references (from Gandhi`s collected works) to Gandhi`s racism, hindu casteism and bigotry in my ilogs and earlier articles. As for my vision of Pakistan and how to get there - it should not be your concern.

Other than repeating the same old myths that have become the truth in Goebellian fashion, I don`t see anything in your posts that could mount a direct challenge to my factual view of the man which is reaffirmed by those who knew him - especially those bold enough to challenge his medieval Hindu fascism like M N Roy.

Re: # 383 YLH
[...I`d only do so using Gandhi as a metaphor...]

What?....No more ``gandhi bad, gandhi bad`` monkey-dance from you?....Aisha ain`t going to like that...

#382 FarzanaVersey

Thanks for the information/update.

Okay, since I have no way to independently check who is who – and if indeed Nasah is not the other nicks I attributed to him – then apologies are due to him. (Perhaps all those “tracks” only exist in my imagination.)

Therefore, sorry “Nasah”!

(Note: I have been wrong about guessing on nicks before!)

The concerns expressed regarding the “actual” individual in question (and chowk’s way of having dealt with it) – as stated at the end of #366 – stand on their own!

(PS: the length of one’s stay at this site can in no way be correlated to their other attributes.)

#367 Manto
Like I said, I am not going to be provoked by your stale trick of spitting inflammatory rhetoric left and right any more. The fact that chowk staff (or the editor, or their “string-pullers”, if indeed there are such characters) allow such inflammatory rhetoric to appear here is perhaps more reflective of their own contempt for the “guidelines” and their own prejudiced mindsets than anything else! You and they are welcome to hang on to that mindset – because clearly, THAT is all that you guys got.

I did have some thoughts on your “vision” of Pakistan and your approach for getting there - which I expect to pen at a later time (perhaps on a more relevant board or even in the form of i-log)!

re:#383 by Mantolives
The tissue paper i use at home to wipe my A$$ i have named lovingly as ``jinnah papers``. I thought it was a good name. The guy deserves no better.
Sridhar

re: Jinnah`s legacy: a timely article by Thomas Friedman
While Manto the moron continues with his tirade against Gandhiji (i seriously doubt the guy gets paid for this!), the legacy left behind by Jinnah is there for all to see.
(Empty pockets, angry minds
Feb 24, 2006
By Thomas Friedman, syndicated columnist

Thomas L. Friedman

MUMBAI, India -- I have no doubt that the Danish cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad have caused real offense to many Muslims. I`m glad my newspaper didn`t publish them. But there is something in the worldwide Muslim reaction to these cartoons that is excessive, and suggests that something else is at work in this story. It`s time we talked about it.

To understand this Danish affair, you can`t just read Samuel Huntington`s classic, The Clash of Civilizations. You also need to read Karl Marx, because this explosion of Muslim rage is not just about some Western insult. It`s also about an Eastern failure. It is about the failure of many Muslim countries to build economies that prepare young people for modernity -- and all the insult, humiliation and frustration that has produced.

Today`s world has become so wired together, so flattened, that you can`t avoid seeing just where you stand on the planet -- just where the caravan is and just how far ahead or behind you are. In this flat world you get your humiliation fiber-optically, at 56K or via broadband, whether you`re in the Muslim suburbs of Paris or Kabul. Today, Muslim youth are enraged by cartoons in Denmark. Earlier, it was a Newsweek story about a desecrated Quran. Why? When you`re already feeling left behind, even the tiniest insult from afar goes to the very core of your being -- because your skin is so thin.

India is the second-largest Muslim country in the world, but the cartoon protests here, unlike those in Pakistan, have been largely peaceful. One reason for the difference is surely that Indian Muslims are empowered and live in a flourishing democracy. India`s richest man is a Muslim software entrepreneur. But so many young Arabs and Muslims live in nations that have deprived them of any chance to realize their full potential.

The Middle East Media Research Institute, called MEMRI, just published an analysis of the latest employment figures issued by the U.N.`s International Labor Office. The ILO study, MEMRI reported, found that ``the Middle East and North Africa stand out as the region with the highest rate of unemployment in the world``: 13.2 percent. That is worse than in sub-Saharan Africa.

While GDP in the Middle East-North Africa region registered an annual increase of 5.5 percent from 1993 to 2003, productivity, the measure of how efficiently these resources were used, increased by only about 0.1 percent annually -- better than only one region, sub-Saharan Africa.

The Arab world is the only area in the world where productivity did not increase with GDP growth. That`s because so much of the GDP growth in this region was driven by oil revenues, not by educating workers to do new things with new technologies.

Nearly 60 percent of the Arab world is under the age of 25. With limited job growth to absorb them, the ILO estimates, the region is spinning out about 500,000 more unemployed people each year. At a time when India and China are focused on getting their children to be more scientific, innovative thinkers, educational standards in much of the Muslim world -- particularly when it comes to science and critical inquiry -- are not keeping pace.

Pervez Hoodbhoy, a professor of nuclear physics at Quaid-i-Azam University in Islamabad, Pakistan, bluntly wrote the following in Global Agenda 2006, the journal of the recent Davos World Economic Forum:

``Pakistan`s public (and all but a handful of private) universities are intellectual rubble, their degrees of little consequence. According to the Pakistan Council for Science and Technology, Pakistanis have succeeded in registering only eight patents internationally in 57 years.

``(Today) you seldom encounter a Muslim name in scientific journals. Muslim contributions to pure and applied science -- measured in terms of discoveries, publications, patents and processes -- are marginal. The harsh truth is that science and Islam parted ways many centuries ago. In a nutshell, the Muslim experience consists of a golden age of science from the ninth to the 14th centuries, subsequent collapse, modest rebirth in the 19th century, and a profound reversal from science and modernity, beginning in the last decades of the 20th century. This reversal appears, if anything, to be gaining speed.``

No wonder so many young people in this part of the world are unprepared, and therefore easily enraged, as they encounter modernity. And no wonder backward religious leaders and dictators in places like Syria and Iran -- who have miserably failed their youth -- are so quick to turn their young people`s anger against an insulting cartoon and away from themselves and the rot they have wrought.

Thomas L. Friedman is a syndicated columnist who writes for the New York Times.)
Sridhar

#368 by Mantolives


[I can`t blame you for being a liar or being dishonest. You are after all a committed follower of Mahatma Gandhi. So lying and being dishonest must be second nature to you. ]

Ok so I have an excuse. What excuse did your Ahmadiya prophet have for lying?


[I`ve already explained that the statement is out of context. I did not ask Masadi to leave the US- I am merely asking why he chooses to live there when... the obvious answer being because the US gives Masadi the intellectual freedom and financial stability he craves. ]


Then how come you don`t ask FV why SHE ``chooses to live in India when...`` Isn`t the obvious answer in that case also ``because India gives FV the intellectual freedom and financial stability SHE craves?``.


You should think twice before trying such grown-up things like logic.

Re: #366 by bjkumar

[I agree that BJP and others did not grow in vacuum - these babies were illegitimately conceived and reared through the illicit love affair between lousy Muslim leaders and opportunistic demagogues. ]

It could not have grown without a sympathetic atmosphere in the Indian polity.

Let me ask you - could you list as 1), 2) 3)... etc. the things you don`t like about the BJP? Please only list facts backed up by actual incidents.

I`ll be looking forward to your answer.

FV...

Agreed.

If I choose to comment, I`d only do so using Gandhi as a metaphor for Ayn Rand`s Witchdoctor.

Gandhi -- as a political entity is not the subject of this article. It is resulting in unncessary abuse. If there was a mention of him in the piece, it was a genuine metaphor. Should anyone wish to expand on that aspect, they are welcome to do so.

All other posts will have to unfortunately be filtered out based on our vigilant interactors`s feedback and Chowk guidelines.

However, if any of you have problems posting other responses on this or any board, do let us know here or at Feedback. We will set that right. The idea is not to stifle any voice.

- - -

PS: It is important for us to be made aware of multi-nicks, but it would help if people took care to see who they are accusing. Nasah has been a senior and respected Chowkie for long and has no other nick.

Hey whats wrong here.