Husain, Hinduism, Hindustan: Testing Tolerance

Yaar BJkumar,

Have any Pakistanis put up a picture of Jinnah or anyone else squatting as a counter argument?

I forgive you for being feebleminded. No wonder you think what you do.

#439 Manto

[...Gandhi`s picture squatting on an Indian style commode ...]

Please forgive me for my ignorance - is there a different style commode that is used by Pakistanis? And also - did Jinnah sit on a different style loo? I am sure that you have researched the matter closely and can fill everybody in - minutely down to perhaps even the ``crap`` that he ended up producing!

Please enlighten me ... is the phrase same as saying that all Africans are of inferior genetic stock and Indians should even be in the same room as them- as your great mahatmaji declared so proudly and vociferously declared?

Using Gandhi here strictly as a metaphor for racist bigotry ofcourse...

#439 Manto

[...I am calling a spade a spade...]

Talking of racists - since you have lived in the USA - are you aware of the racist connotations of that phrase?

I did not think so.

#436 Aisha

Hi, Aisha, glad to see that you can speak, too!

Also, I perhaps had no clue regarding the depth of the ``passions`` that Manto and you hold for Ms. Sadna!

Wow!

But don`t you think it is a bit unfair? The TWO of you - and just ONE of her?

Calling all knights!

But how is any of this discussion relevant to the current topic?

Aisha...

The problem is that these are indeed fair and balanced arguments in Beej`s world... after all to him Gandhi`s picture squatting on an Indian style commode constitutes a valid argument against any claims of casteism on his part.


BJKumar,

My friend, I don`t feel the need to appease you. I am calling a spade a spade.
A person who wishes to perpetuate caste system is casteist. A person who calls other savages for being of a different color is a racist... kapeesh? The only thing inflammatory is your obfuscation.

#437

That should have been spelt ``objectively``.

#434 Manto

[...casteist racist bigot...]
Here is another instance .... when the words reveal more about who is uttering them rather than the object of one`s scorn!

Be careful, Manto, the world can see inflammatory language - whether or not it meets the ``objectivelt`` enforced criteria set by chowk staff/editors.

Re: # 433

Some of sadna`s ``fair`` and ``balanced`` arguments and posts:

``Jhootay makaar Pakistanis``

``all Pakis are gadhas``

``I will not answer you- you are a paki``

``pakis are idiots``

How can quoting Seerwai or Ayesha Jalal be as balanced as this. Other great fair and balanced names : Ann Couter, Bill O Reilly (he even starts his show ``fair and balanced``) and the team at Fox News.

PS: I strongly suggest that while the urge to cheer lead someone like Sadna might be strong, I wish to suggest a simple test.

I quote sources and so does Sadna. Verify them yourselves. Don`t take anything for granted - check and recheck.

If people were to carry out this simple test - they would see for themselves, who is fair, balanced and better reasoned... but then we see only that what we wish to see. It is perhaps more accurate of Sadna`s cheerleaders than anyone else.

Dear BJKumar,

First of all do you seriously think your opinion , given your past (posting 500 pictures of that casteist racist bigot), counts? Or that you`ve never produced an argument to your name ever?

I am merely calling it as I see it. Sadna knows very well that she lied here, as is often the case... the credit for Muslim Family Laws goes to Deobandi Islamic fanatics` unflinching loyalty to Congress Party in order to secure their Islamist particularism in an India dominated by Hindus...

So continue this ... we can all go on.

#430 Manto

As I said in an earlier interact (about a century or so ago), the two of you (Ms. Sadna and you) appear to be old pals, so I won`t DARE to get in-between. In fairness, I must emphasize however - that based on what I have seen, I find virtually all of Ms. Sadna`s interacts better-reasoned and more balanced than virtually all of yours - and your tendency to get provoked over the most trivial of stuff is perhaps legendary around here - that is why I was a little surprised when she appeared to have lost a bit of cool - because it is so rare.

Now, if you indeed have a vision of a future Pakistan - and if you indeed care for it - you would go about it the right way - by putting aside some of your peevishness (which might be okay for a lawyer but is an absolute anti-catalyst for ANY visionary). I am not yet sure that you are capable of it, but I wish you good luck!

A vision enhances itself - a dream only lasts till one comes awake!

On Muslim Family Laws in India and the Shah Bano case... the reason for Sadna`s obfuscation

The reason Sadna chose to go back to Jinnah is obvious ... she is hiding the truth. The truth is that the Gandhi encouraged the Khilafat Movement... Gandhi helped form the Jamiat-e-Ulema-Hind and then the Congress used the JUH in the most machiavellian fashion against the Muslim League... JUH used to call Jinnah and Muslim League ``Kafir`` and Kafir League ... on Congress` behest. Why? Because Jinnah had married Ruttie, Dinshaw Petit`s daughter, who used to wear ``UnIslamic`` clothes according to these Mullahs ...

Let us call a spade a spade. Muslim Family Laws in their most regressive form are a prize to the Deobandi Islamic Fanatics for being Congress loyalists against Muslim League... the Congress always had a vote bank amongst the Deoabdis.. Blaming ``Pakistan`` and ``Jinnah`` and the ``Muslim League`` for Congress` machiavellian vote-bank politics is a novel argument even for someone as unbalanced as Sadna... because in Pakistan ... the Muslim Family Law was amended a while ago- making it hard for men to marry more than once, abolishing Halala etc...

Congress always had a interest in promoting Mullahs... One simpleton Mullah - Maulana Azad- had in 1920s given the call for ``Hijrah`` ... it stated that India was an enemy country and that Muslims should move to Islamic countries such as Afghanistan, Arabia and Turkey (not Iran ironically)... This was an attempt at voluntary ethnic cleansing - thankfuly Afghan King`s rude behavior sent these Islamic jokers packing.

And Congress and Deobandi Mullahs have a mutual interest and agreement- Mullahs as the leaders of Muslims would not demand share in power... and Congress as ruling ``Secular`` party would protect their archaic interpretations of Islamic law...

So lets call a spade a spade... Congress is still stuck in the Khilafat mode of thinking.

The following news excerpt, which was published when Mr. Husain turned 90 last year, gives some insights into his own way of looking at the works of his art and what inspires him.
M.F. Husain, patriarch of Indian art, turns 90
By Uma Nair, Indo-Asian News Service

New Delhi, Sep 17 IANS (IANS) Maqbool Fida Husain, the patriarch of the Indian palette, turned 90 Saturday celebrating as much the milestone in his life as the coming of age of Indian art in the world.

``Ninety years. That`s the birthday to be celebrated,`` Husain had told IANS at the Vadheras art gallery in Delhi. And sure enough, the artist marked his birthday with his family in Mumbai.

Husain is upbeat these days. ``It`s time for the West to turn to India,`` he says. ``Artists in the West do not know what to do. They don`t know where they are going. This is a land that is rich in history.``

He doesn`t want to talk about the controversy around businessman Guru Swaroop Srivastava who made news by commissioning Husain`s paintings for Rs.1 billion but was embroiled in a forgery case.

What the artist wants to talk about was the success of Indian art at Christie`s and Sotehby`s, saying it was a watershed for Indian art.

``The Indians are getting rich now and, like the wealthy all over the world, they will inevitably start chasing after a quality life and pursue art and culture with their wads of cash,`` he said animatedly.

``It is clear that Indian art now enjoys a high tide and those who are sceptical about its future should be silenced,`` says Husain happily.

Certainly, Indian art is reflecting a bullishness not quite seen before.

Husain is back in India after launching his latest series entitled ``Lost Continent`` at the Victoria Albert Museum in London, and after the success of the Sotheby`s auction, he is excited beyond the zenith.

``Indian art is there, it`s right on top, and people are now looking at our works and acknowledging that it is serious and it is a result of many years of intellectual and aesthetic experiences,`` says Husain.

``Ours is an old civilisation, it has an enriched language, the world is waking up to contemporary Indian art.``

Any regrets? ``No regrets, but I think of how over the years criticism has hurt me - it was honest in the olden days - but it also toughened and healed me. I look back on the last 70 years and think - there has to be some substance in my work otherwise how would it have sustained itself?

``Can you fool people all the time? Is a Rolls Royce or a Cadillac merely something that is here today gone tomorrow?

``Yes, in one way I am different - I have always wanted to share the process of my painting, nothing in my life has been hidden. I haven`t deceived anyone. All through my life I have sought one image - the image of my mother whom I never saw.

``Whenever I painted women who personified her there were no faces - only the outline - you saw in Mother Teresa, in Madhuri, in Madonna, in Saraswati, in Mohini. Images are evolved over a period of time - one lifetime is not enough.

``Let me tell you that the Nataraja is the image that is the most highly evolved. It is a metaphor of the evolution of the Eastern mind that has gone beyond reality.

``I want to get prints made of my works for the common man, I want to bring to the common man my inner psyche,`` he says.

For the moment, he is spending the special day in his life with his family in Mumbai, leaving out the media, which he says ``has no role to play in a an artist`s life!``

Farzana..

Sorry. But lies must be countered.


BJkumar,

I just read your mutual backscratching with Sadna, who was never a very balanced interactor. Her claims have been exposed as lies and if you choose to believe her lies, it is is your prerogative.

However, there was a gentleman by the name of H M Seervai- he was an Indian lawyer, a jurist par excellence and a distinguished constitutional expert. In 1990 he wrote a book called ``Partition of India: Legend and Reality``. In this after investigating all documents on their merit, Mr Seervai pronounced the judgement that the only person who carried himself with utmost integrity and selflessness in the partition phase was Jinnah. This was a balanced statement ... you might not share this position- but then you have shown yourself to be quite ignorant of even Gandhi to know much about history.

So you chaps can continue to go in circles - but when a fair history of partition is written, the world will see who did what.

-YLH

rsridhar...

Please produce a single post, article or an ilog where I have blamed the jews for anything ... If anything I admire their courage and enterprising nature. I am a great fan of the way Israel has held its own in a hostile environment. The problem here is that you want to now associate views that have nothing to do with me so that you can discredit my own views some how.

So get a life please.