Husain, Hinduism, Hindustan: Testing Tolerance

i fully support teaching of shahnama or babarnama ..its our history and we should study it full. their is a lot of good scholarship available and should be taught that some boring sanitized monochromatic stuff that we seem to learn.

i just think it is shameful that this land so rich with classics, its children get no education in its own classics and they are relegated to comic books in place of proper state-sponsored scholarship. leftist have a phobia of hindutva akin to paki sense of smell of hing...they seem to have much allergy to anything remotely hindu in public life. tough and stupid.

mohar11 #126
Leave aside the Buddhas, the Taliban allied to Bin Laden ruthlessly killed thousands of ethnic Hazaras, Uzbeks and others (civilian noncombatants) in the Bamiyan and other regions from 1995-2001.

I am unaware of any subcontinental Muslim entity taking a stand against the ethnic killings by Taliban/Al Qaeda and Pakistan`s support of them except Ahmed Rashid, bless him. It is very hard to understand. It is as if Muslims and nonMuslims are two different species and the rules applied to each are entirely different.

mohar miaN -- if you can talk in civilized impersonal laguage we can discuss this matter further --

I did not say that Versey is a virtuous pious virgin woman -- I said that Versey is more virtuous than most Indians because she has the guts to call a spade a spade even if or especially if its her own spade --

she is a critical patriot -- not a blind patriot

she doesn`t say my country right or wrong -- my religion right or wrong -- my community right or wrong -- (that will be Fascism and she is not a fascist)

she is an iconoclastic iconbuster -- sometime to an extent that she may sound like a ghostbuster -- may be most of the time she sounds like the nattering nabobina of negativity -- but she is one gutsy contrarian -- a fast draw she packs a magnum pen -- ready to duel -- with any MAN or woman -- right in the middle of chowk --

a rare breed among the subdued subjugated subcontinental Naive Narees....

and that`s her one VIRTUE....I admire in her even though I don`t agree with her -- so please treat her with respect as your equal......and no personal attacks please.....

and btw about that ``tachy painting``.....if you see as many tachy (tachycardia) patients as I see on a daily basis you will start seeing every tacky painting as a ``tachy painting`` as well.......:)

nasah,

``she is a critical patriot -- not a blind patriot`` Farzana is a cynical patriot?!

she says my country is wrong (always ... blindly) -- the other religion is wrong, always -- my country`s majority community is wrong , always -- (that will be cynicism and she is a cynic).

And you are being an apologist ... instead of calling a spade a spade.

I TOLERATE her as I tolerate Modi.

Sadna #57
Painters and artists tend to find art in naked bodies, and personally I respect their freedom to do so.
So this particular painting merits do criticism. However if art starts including ``saraswati`` or ``ganesha``, in a form that can be seen as demeaning, than I would have concerns. If Hussain (or anyone else) want to paint naked bodies, they should paint nude models, may be from their own family.

Re: # 131 nasah
[....she doesn`t say my country right or wrong -- my religion right or wrong -- my community right or wrong...]

Well, neither do I... or you... or quite a few other interactors in here.... it don`t matter..... what matters is common sense - the lady just lacks common sense and a clear mind.....

Virtuous, iconoclastic, contrarian, magnum pen - can you be any more rhetorical please?.... I mean, the lady defends the taliban regime and their buddha-blasting ways, for crying out loud....

jeez....

#128 by rsridhar
Mr.rsridhar Sir
With all due respect, If, you are unable to make any point for further discussion, please, stop repeating same irrevelant , illogical points ,again and again like a parrot, who learns few words and repeat them for the rest of it`s life. By seeing your posts, i can easily see your reflection with your typical prejudiced mindset(again, I do not know you are hindu or muslim, that does not make any difference to me, at least, we are all humans ). You are bringing Danish cartoons and muslim religion again and again with out even me mentioning a single word about muslims , Danish cartoons or any other religion. We are discussing disrespect of Hindu religion by a stupid , low lying painter, who is committing a crime of blasphemy in India just for money and fame.(This is criteria now-a-days to get controversial and automatically you`ll be rich and famous). For that people can also paint their own parents paintings to mock and humiliate them,b/c real human moral values are gone, what is left here is just typical bigot mindset with highly selfish and cruel approach to hurt other`s feelings with no reason. This is where world is heading up to with people like your typical mindset. What else can I say,except to feel sorry for your narrowminded approach. You are dragging Pakistan, Muslims and now these Danish cartoons in each and every post of your`s. Well, that is the height of your hateful obsession for Pakistanis. And, this obsession has gone out of control now and I believ it is killing you now and it has already mentally crippled you to the extent that you are unable to discuss relevant discourse with normalcy. Always ready for personal attack and every attack of your`s ends up with cursing muslims, Pakistanis, islam.....................................................................
Let me ask you something.
What Islam,muslims and Pakistanis have done with you, exclusively? Have they done any harm to you, which you`re unable to cope? In, that case, all my sympathies are with you.
Again, you are NOT some Hindu god or avatar. And you are NOT hindu leader as well. You can speak only for yourself,but, to speak for all hindus and their feelings , no way. This shows , your typical mindset..................which is obviously leading you towards irrelevancy.
Again, you are bringing up Pakistani dictorial REGIMEN in this article, which absolutely has NO link to the article.
You with your patronizing attitude is showing individual dictatorship in your nature, which is so, very hard for you to even hide. So, here you`re being hypocritical for criticising Paki regimen`s dictatorship and being dictator yourself , at least here on chowk.
You are labelling me with typical muslim mindset with out even understanding my point of view. Look at me, I did not for once mentioned you as typical hindu mindset. B/c I am absolutely UNLIKE you. I have broadminded school of thought NOT to humiliate any religion at any cost. I know, how to respect other`s beliefs. I believe, who doesn`t respect his/her his/her own religions and other`s religion, he/she is not capable of respecting his/her own family,and if, he/she is unable to respect one`s own family and is ready to humiliate one`s own family by making their nude paintings, is absolutely NOT humanbeing. It doesn`t matter, which caste or religion?

Yes, when it comes to you harrassing, personally attacking other chowkies, you label yourself as being BLUNT, but, when some Pakistani is really straight forward , you start calling him/her jihadi/islamist/terrorist....................WoW. What a double standard your typical mindset has!!! I am impressed by your highly immatured approach. I wonder, if, you are still in high school or some teenager. Please, say you`re.B/c I can not imagine such irrelevancy from an adult.

I am completely able to digest truth. Not only that , I am highly able to face and speak the truth, NOTHING,but, the truth.You are advising me to stay away from chowk.......Well seeing your tantrums , I have a friendly suggestion for you.....................
It is better for your mental health to stay away from chowk as far as you can, this bigotry against Pakistanis will kill you. Thank you.
And, please, stick to the topic. This article is not about me,being muslim or not or about Pakistan. This article is about blasphemy by a moronish painter, who needs to be corrected .................................

zeena#122:

Can I say, without sounding patronising, that I find you a truly noble and sensitive soul? But your post has not answered what I had asked for, a definition of Hindu Blasphemy.

Let me reiterate: I distinguish between insulting religious feelings and Blasphemy. To take an example, it is my understanding that it is a Blasphemy in Christianity to use the name of Jesus Christ in vain. So, when a Christian is saying `Jesus Christ!` in anger, he is technically committing Blasphemy but no Christian today would say that he is thus insulting his religion. Yes, I am aware that the word is used quite loosely these days; heck I have even called blasphemy any comparison of Shahrukh Khan`s performance as Devdas with that of Dilip Kumar in the old Devdas.

Regarding your mother`s not being allowed into her Hindu friend`s kitchen or temple, this is not blasphemy but another concept that is big among Hindus, that of ``pollution``. My mother in the old days would consider her kitchen to be defiled even if someone entered in it with their shoes on. My generation has not inherited those old taboos and the next generation of Hindus is not even aware of these taboos. But those taboos did exist and maybe still do in villages.

kaurasach:

I do agree with you with the Muslim`s strong sense of ummahood, but this can be exaggerated. There is a strong tradition of fighting injustice in Islam, just as it is among Sikhs. I think that there was a time around late 80s when Muslims in India felt as Indian as anyone else. There sense of Indianness was shattered after the demolition of the Babri Masjid in the same way as that of the Sikhs after the attack on the Golden Temple. This was as true of secular Sikhs and Muslims as that of relious ones.

I personally believe that by the time of 1980s, not just Indian Muslims but many Pakistanis were beginning to question the rationale for Pakistan. Bangladesh had divided Pakistan into two, there was a Jiye Sindh movement in Sindh, a Balochistan up in revolt and the Mohajirs questioning the wisdom of their fathers after attacks on them in Karachi. But the demolition of the Babri Masjid and the Gujarat massacres created the feeling of inalienation which was dying with the generation of Muslims many of whom had participated in the struggle for Pakistan.

#137:

For the grammar nazis, ``There sense of Indianness`` should have been their sense of Indianness.

Re: # 113
[My own name is name of a God. There are a plethora of religious names among hindus ]

Yes. I agree. And there are a plethora of religious names amongst Hindus. But coming back to my original point , that has nothing to do with Hinduisation. It`s an Indian name. Lets be clear there. And your name Sridhar is definitely not African. It`s Indian too. And that name existed long before the term Hindu existed.

And by mentioning Arundhati Roy you are just agreeing to my statement . She`s one of those part Malayalee Christians who will have a baptismal biblical name.(her father is Bengali).

[Infact, most names can be traced to some religious root. ]

I disagree. It could be an occupation, place of residence, mythological heroes heroines etc...
And even names of the plethora of gods and goddesses that exist in Hinduism come from other words that existed before these beings were created.

Nuff said, since it has nothing to do with the article.

S

#136 Dost- mittar jii
Namastay
Thank you very much for your compliment. I am honoured. This is the way to interact. Yes, you know your ways. I highly appreciate your good words about me.

Now, as far as blasphemy is, you are right from your perspective. And, I am right from mine. We both are neither right , nor wrong . As a matter of fact, we both are seeing blashphemy from different angle. I am @ 90 degree South and you`re @ 90 degree North. Now, If, I start saying your angle is minus 90 degree South(-90) and mine is plus 90( +90 degree North. Well, you can object and sameway i can object to your scheme. I got your point of view.

But, here is my definition of blashphemy which is universally accepted. I didn`t make it. I didn`t mold it. I didn`t change it for my lifestyle. Yes, it is/was/will be there from centuries till the end..................................................................................................If, you agree or disagree, that is purely your prerogative, i won`t object to it............................

{{{{ Blasphemy is defined as ,``A contemptuous or profane act, utterance, or writing concerning God or a sacred entity.
The act of claiming for oneself the attributes and rights of God.
An irreverent or impious act, attitude, or utterance in regard to something considered inviolable or sacrosanct.``}}}}}

DM jii
I didn`t make it up. Now, if, you go by this definition, then I am absolutely right. Nice interacting with you.Take care.

Re: # 132

``(that will be cynicism and she is a cynic).``

without being an apologist I would say -- yes you are right -- Versy is a cynic -- and by `virtue` of that -- at least she can never be called an extremist fundamentalist -- which in turn should make her way way more `tolerable` than a murderous creature like Modi....with blood on his hand...

.....Versey has no blood on her hand

nasah #141
When will you tell FV or when will FV make the discovery that the Hindu posters here have no blood on their hands? Let me guess - NEVER. To be a Hindu is to have blood on one`s hands in every situation(even in resisting Pakistani jihad in Kashmir), to be Muslim to be eternally innocent(even while destroying temples and killing hundreds of thousands).

To be Hindu is to asked to apologise for Babri Masjid every second day, to be Muslim is to show your heels when asked about an attack on a temple.

sadna #142
Hindu army is killing thousands of innocnet kashmiri muslims daily, raping their women , burning them alive and you`re telling us, Hindus have No blood on their hands in resisting kashmir. Kashmir is NOT an issue here. What is the problem with you and some other people from India? Why every article end up with your irrelevant posts with no connection to the article at hand. This article is not about Kashmiris or Pakistanis. But, you are so, very much obsessed with Pakistanis , that you can`t help,but, bringing every discussion in to Pakistan.

FV is absolutely NOT here to answer your bigot questions. She is sensible enough to answer your relevant ones.

Modi is NOT muslim. So, why all of us are seeing blood on his hands?
Sadna madam
Please, do not derail the whole article. You always try to diffuse the exact point. This is your habit. Most of interactors wish to stick to the point. We don`t appreciate diversions and false accusations for Pakistanis and muslims.
FV is absolutely not comparing this article with muslims having blood on their hands or not. I did not see any comparasion being made by her. Yes, she tried to defend this painter(Husain) absolutely NOT on religious grounds,but, on general grounds. It looks like FV does like Husain`s paintings a lot and I believe she being admirer of Husain`s art can not see people blaming him for insulting Hinduism. She has her PREROGATIVE TO STAND for her favourite artist and for her opinion or point of view. You and I can not force her to tell us, what we wish to hear from her and we can not force her to act according to our wishes. Why would she do that? She doesn`t owe us anything. It is just like , you can not force me to change my point of view or belief. And same goes for me.

FV didn`t make up this news, why will she make up any other discovery to which is not a fact? Again, if, she will, that is purely her prerogative to do what she wants. You and I can not patronize anyone. We can just suggest. Thank you very much.

Dear Sadna -- you can be as `rhetorical` as I can (mohar mian) -- but please never say NEVER -- may be not enough -- but there is plenty of Islam bashing by the Muslims themselves -- for what they do to other communities and their icons -- including destruction of Bamayani Buddha......