Husain, Hinduism, Hindustan: Testing Tolerance

a Swami Ramdev, who has been exposed recently for keeping bones and skulls in his ayurveda unit, has become a hip, much-in-demand- by-celebs godman.

The lengths to which this woman goes to discredit people is simply disgusting! Please let us know who `exposed` Swami Ramdev and what is the evidence they provided to substantiate their allegation. Was there a scientific analysis of the medicine?

Dear Farzana..

An excellent piece... I think your last few lines have expressed many unspoken truths...


They are all paeans to religion. Therefore, he has no business to be called secular. I don`t think this form of national integration is a good idea, anyway. Keep your gods to yourself. The moment you start slobbering over mythology you cut yourself from reality.

I think what is in clash is secularism as understood in the west (separation of church and state- Laicete) vs religiously inspired multiculturalism (which is often confused with secularism in India).. the problem with the latter is that it is pregnant with its own antidote. This precisely why the Khilafat Movement failed... in a way in Indian psyche it is the clash between Nehruvian and Gandhian ideas... I think it was Khushwant Singh who best expressed it somewhere when he said much the same as you do..

Constitutional state secularism does not depend on people`s imagined identity... as long as the citizen is a law abiding tax payee...

I am so touched that people want me to comment on several issues, but I carried three pieces on the cartoon controversy that gave both perspectives…and several more in the ‘self-publish section’.

By posting pics of the cartoons, you are not testing my tolerance, just taking up a lot of space. Since even those who live in caves have managed to see them surely you did not assume I would not have? Anyhow, I am not affected by them.

[The bigger issue today is facing the muslim world following the cartoon saga. Farzana bibi would have done well to talk about that.]

Who is to decide what is a bigger issue? Every issue that seeks to curtail, question, corrupt can and should be taken up.

I am shocked at some people saying that at least Hindus are not blowing up buildings, as though it is a great achievement on their part. Btw, do read the reports on how the Shiv Sena goons behaved with women and men at a Valentine’s Day private party. Would you say this too is a non-issue and we must speak only about the prophet’s cartoons?

[``Footnote: The writer’s views on similar subjects regarding Islam and Christianity are available here…
The Book is also just a Book
Hey JC, won’t you smile for me? ``
And what`s with these.... ? You want us to believe that you are totally unbiased, that you treat Muslims with the same contempt, and suspicion that you seem to hold Hindus with?]

Yeah, can’t digest that, right? It proves the whole thesis of this article right – that you have to be certified kosher by the majority community to be considered secular and unbiased. You have to gain iconic status by speaking his master’s voice. And even though I know at least as much as M. F. Husain about Hindu mythology, I have to walk around looking completely besotted and faking great affinity.

Some people here can speak authoritatively as ‘atheists’ from the Hindu perspective, but a non-practising Muslim like me just has to be called an Islamist or jihadi.

These are terms I do not identity with and Islamists and jihadis will have a tough time having anything to do with me. But it is a lovely spot to put someone into. If I were “batting” for those blokes, then where is the “support”? Heck, one Pakistani comes here and even accuses that this is becoming a Hindu yatra site.

And let’s not get into Rushdie territory here. Are we being told that ‘Hindu’ writers are not given a tough time? Please run search engine. They receive threats, their houses are ransacked, they are beaten up. Only because there is no concept of a ‘fatwa’ does not make this behaviour any less reprehensible.

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#4 by mohar11:

[Are you kidding me?..... Hinuds are his masters - MF hussain is their secret weapon - he is the thin wedge of the big conspiracy by hinuds to get India hinduised......

Here is how it works - Husain paints nude hinud gods.... hinuds applaud him, instead of burning down buildings[except for VHP, ofcourse].... that proves hinuds are tolerant - that shows hinuds in a good light.... non-hinuds[muslims] get impressed and gravitate towards towards hinduism..... next thing you know India is hinduised.....

Get it?]

If you remove the sarcasm (and the typos) from this post, it captures what I am trying to convey very lucidly!
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#6 by delhiwala:

[Why is it that you are defending Maqbool Fida Hussain`s freedom?...Could it be that modern day Indian Muslims, who have been sidelined by Hindus from 50ies-80ies, now look upon Shabana Aazmee and MFH as their leaders.
What about Shahbuddinn? Afterall he is ex-IAS and a very effective leader holding BJP under the matt.]

I think you have got most of this article wrong. I am not defending Husain’s freedom. I have been rather harsh on him, but I do not think the criticism against him is valid in the current context. Modern-day Muslims, who do not bend backwards to please, hardly identity with people like Husain or Azmi. I think of them as vocational liberals – it comes in handy in their line of work. And Shahabuddin can be dangerous because he rationalises religion.

[In all seriousness, your article looses it`s value and my rebuttal looks more appealing, simply because Muslims are burning their own cities and getting very frustrated by the Cartoon issues; whereas here you are defending MFH`s portrayal of Hindu Goddesses in a compromising position, as if Durga and Kaali are synonmous with liqour.
What about Toilet seats? Would you write something if some Indian portrays Christ or Kaaba on a Toilet seat?]

I have already directed you to two articles in the footnote. I have said elsewhere that my views on the cartoons would be the same as the ones I expressed regarding the Quran desecration controversy.

The Durga-liquor has nothing to do with Husain. That is an ad by Southern Comfort; again, I gave examples of how alcoholism was never taboo in Hindusim.

I do not get excited about toilet seats with images on them, but if you want to know more go to my article ‘Making Religion Sexy’ and look for Kaaba there…

[Last but not least, why are you always so angry? Do us a favor and write at least one positive article from your able hands.]

Angry? Asking questions, talking about certain issues does not denote anger. For positive pieces, please scroll through the list of articles – there is some heart-breakingly non-violent stuff…

[For Chrisss sake(errrrr.....Prophet`s sake), please write some pro-Muslim article for a change.]

Pro-Muslim? You sure?
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#14 by dost-mittar:

Husain loves to apologise.

[I am more concerned about the Islamisation of Hinduism than of ``Hinduisation`` of Hussain.]

Now, dear DMji, since when have you started pigeonholing entire groups? If Islamisation of Hinduism were to take place it should have happened during the Mughal era; that did not happen (and I am talking about social mores, not some filigree work). Inherent in your statement is that resurgent Hindutva has been inspired by Islamic fundamentalism. If that were the case, it ought to have happened earlier or later than it did.

The timing clearly shows that the BJP needed something other than development to get into power. And they found a dilapidated mosque that sounded just right. As I have said before, if they truly believe that a temple existed at the site of the Taj Mahal, why don’t they demolish it?

[As for protests over insulting Bharat Mata, why do the Hindus claim monopoly over the ownership of their motherland? Mother Earth sustains everyone equally, or should!]

That is the major problem I have…

[``He makes a mockery of poverty by going around unshod when he has shoes that cost Rs. 5 lakh.``
The only time I saw Hussain in a person was on a train from Delhi to Bombay and, as I recall, he was bare-foot.]

He claimed in an interview about that pair of shoes.
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#17 by freethinker:

Gill saab, I am glad you have been prompted to discover more about Husain the artist through this piece. Besides his art, you must try and see the film ‘Gaja Gamini’; it is brilliant, as I already stated. I have written a profile on him for TFT (after writing several other pieces on him in the Indian newspapers years ago, I might add, before the devoted TFT readers here jump on my case). If it does not go against Chowk guidelines I might put it up here later!

Regards

Some more...

#21 by swarrier:

Husain has become just a marketing guy now…even serious art dealers think so. Since you mentioned P. Godrej, he has these society hangers-on and they keep his wheels moving.

That Mahavira statue was at a small hotel. I wonder why it would give anyone an inferiority complex. But then I do not think ‘David’ should either…

I remember the Ganpathi milk-drinking episode. There was one near where I stayed then and it had become difficult to walk past the queues. I believe that was the only time the milk did not have water added to it.
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#26 by jang:

[{By making an icon of one who is at best lampooning a cuckold role to the hilt,}
1. can you please expand on this? what role is hussain lampooning?]

This has been explained/expanded on in the following statements: “He is marketing religiosity even as he twists it.” and “His masters will bail him out because they have already bought him. They are tolerant as long as he paints in the hues they approve of.”

[2. about hinduisation of india..after pakistan split, india has become more hindu than ever..your recent discovery is earth-shattering.]

Not quite. Hindus were merely a majority community. There was no Hinduisation in the socio-political sense until a few years ago. It is only recently that I have begun to feel that such people ought to pack their bags and go to Nepal!

[3. are there any redeeming values you find among your fellow ``hindu`` countrymen and their faith? if not, what should you do about it?]

I do not find redeeming qualities in Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Jains, Parsis for what their faith is. As I said, keep your gods to yourself. At the purely cultural level, I like the way Hindus drape dhotis, I truly enjoy Bhakti sangeet, I love south Indian food, I think the temple architecture is quite awesome, I like the way they draw rangolis, and the way they fold their hands in a namaste, and I like the fact that they gave the world the zero – it is my favourite number…

Heck, I do most of the above things better, so I guess I don’t have to do much…just hope they can keep up with the likes of me.

[4. ramdev baba appears to be an excellent yoga practitioner and he seems to be mainly popular for that program. yoga practice is an indian value is it not? or indian value is only one which has no pre-1947 or pre bin-kasim content?]

Hah, suddenly the world discovers Ramdev baba. I know yoga…let us not stretch it, okay? Most of what you read in the Chicken Soup series is there is the Bhagvad Gita, so is the Chicken all about Indian values? Is Madonna intoning Sanskrit shlokas doing anything for Indian values?
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#33 by avkrishna:

[Anyway, the issue raised by you is not about him, but this is an issue of artistic and social freedom in Hindu society.
This issue of artistic freedom, more broadly the issue of liberalism in Hinduism is a tricky one.]

Please read #20 by bjkumar.

[Granted Hindus have been historically taken a free license about the religion/culture.
But, as a society in time of multiple external threats (whether it is the militant islam or the soft power of Christianity), do we want to continue like that in future too?
Or do we want to be more militant on the fringes to protect the inner core?
Can we get away with such selective agression or is this going to undermine the very essence of our religion and as DM rightly pointed out, Islamize Hinduism?]

How is militant Hinduism going to protect anyone? Who has created this threat perception? It started in the West, and Indian Hindus thought they too had to add to the noise. Missionaries have existed for years. Small fringe Islamic groups have been around, many wooed by political parties at the Centre. The fact is they were not given the time of day by IMs. Do keep this important fact in mind.

Hindu aggressiveness is counter-productive. More innocents have died since this resurgence, and that too aided and abetted by the state machinery.

You say you will be glad if the ‘Hinduisation of India’ takes place. Where do you live? Not in India, right? So, on what grounds do you not only sound alarm bells about Islamic threat to India, you even dream of this Hindu utopia? I have said this several times, this can happen only if India changes its Constitution.
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Thanks are due to those who enlivened this board with their studied comments/critique/queries…

Some people use words to demean others because they cannot see much above their feet.

#51 by FarzanaVersey on February 17, 2006 5:06am PT



By posting pics of the cartoons, you are not testing my tolerance, just taking up a lot of space


Posting of cartoons doesn`t take up chowk space..



Would you say this too is a non-issue and we must speak only about the prophet’s cartoons?


Sure..and Some bible thumpers burnt copies of Harry Potter..

We must now discuss each of these events equally because they`re equivalent..the fatwa on salman rushdie and the subsequent killings of translators, the cartoon jihad, the harry potter burning and the v-day goon squad actions..

I don`t know why 9/11 is such a big deal anyway..Just a moving object colliding against a non-moving object...happens on the beltway a dozen times every day..

and those bamiyan buddhas...let`s not make a big deal out of that...it`s not like there are millions of buddhists living in Afghanistan or anything..

Yeah, can’t digest that, right? It proves the whole thesis of this article right – that you have to be certified kosher by the majority community to be considered secular and unbiased. You have to gain iconic status by speaking his master’s voice. And even though I know at least as much as M. F. Husain about Hindu mythology, I have to walk around looking completely besotted and faking great affinity.

Some people here can speak authoritatively as ‘atheists’ from the Hindu perspective, but a non-practising Muslim like me just has to be called an Islamist or jihadi.


Brilliant!

Interesting article.......there is something implicit in here (atleast that is my reading - not that I am terribly qualified here).

Mohar11 put it rather neatly
#4 by mohar11:

[Are you kidding me?..... Hinuds are his masters - MF hussain is their secret weapon - he is the thin wedge of the big conspiracy by hinuds to get India hinduised......

Here is how it works - Husain paints nude hinud gods.... hinuds applaud him, instead of burning down buildings[except for VHP, ofcourse].... that proves hinuds are tolerant - that shows hinuds in a good light.... non-hinuds[muslims] get impressed and gravitate towards towards hinduism..... next thing you know India is hinduised.....

Get it?]

and your reply says a lot:

If you remove the sarcasm (and the typos) from this post, it captures what I am trying to convey very lucidly!


In fact this is a two way process. Fundementally, in India there has been a pluralism of religious ideologies from time immemorial, and the interesting facet is the ability of the people to be able to integrate diverse thoughts and come up with a unified form. This has been the experience, and in fact this absorption of diverse views is what is scaring the devil out of most people. Already youcan see the indianisation of christianty and the fight the evangilicals are putting up - you can convert people to christianty but you cannot take the old ways out of them - for these ways have in some way been hardwired into the genes! And the Hindus are similarly taking in some of the christianian virtues (it is interesting to note that some of these virtues ideology etc are already present in HInduism - Samkhya, patanjali`s sutras, Buddhism etc - so its not new, but refashioned and rebottled into this new era). A similar situation is happening with Islam.

Some of the traits of Islam are beeing inbibed by the hindus and some of the hindu traits are being absorbed by the muslims - and this is making a few more orthodox and wanting to get back to the pure arabic islam - which in their view is Wahhabi Islam.

Hussain painting a few pictures is neither here nor there - he is incedental to the story that is unfolding in India, he is merely a small point in the trajectory. What is more interesting is the reactions of the people around....

For diverse people to live together in harmony, (healthy, wealthy and wise sort of thing), you need to have an acceptance of other views - political religious or otherwise. If you live together for long periods of time like they have in India - YOU ARE BOUND TO DEVELOP common ground (or you will reach that common ground) - and this is where you will find the majority congregating too. (this is what happned before the advent of Islam to India this is what is happening now with hinduism, Islam, Christainty, Sikhism et al). In this grand scheme of things the extreme orthodox have taken there bat and ball (so to speak) and moved to the play grounds of Pakistan.


from a chowk reader POV - what would be interesting is for Farzana to pool together the three articles (the one above and the other two she has written) and come up with her thesis on the happenings. Currently they are three distinct discrete entities, bring them togther and see the fire works. Perhaps her own views would solidify (thought I would say hardern but that is inappropriate and carries a negative connotation), and maybe rise a few more queries. Such an article would be a true product of what India is right now - hopefull

aww...poor little victim Farzana..not everyone sees her as she`d like to be seen..totally unbiased and not an Islamist apologist.. That automatically makes her critics hateful..no way in heck she could actually be biased or an Islamist apologists..

Farzana...you really belong in Pakiland..They show the same behaviour..when they`re confronted with a reality that doesn`t live up to their self-image, a self-image in which Pakistan isn`t a hotbed of Islamic jihadis and didn`t support the taliban and other assorted Islamist nuts, they claim they are victims of a hate campaign..

Reality is biased against poor Farzana..

It is absolutely ridiculous that M F Husain had to apologise for this.

I think this whole business of apologising is very dangerous and Indian govts. need to begin taking a more nuanced stand on it than their current cravenly coward one. You can`t sustain a democracy or liberal society if you yield to threats against free discourse.

#52 FV

its good to know that you find life somewhat bearable amongst the hindu, and have little inclination to immigrate to nepal ;-)

your views of hindus are so orientalist, (perhaps due to a convent education?) ..hindus wear dhotis, put cute dots and are draw rangolis, they have a confused faith, but quaint harmless practices.

so is it your sense is that hindu society at large is squeezing you or is it just the shivsena and vhp? is the hindu society at large heeding the ban on V-Day, or joining the agitation against comfort-devi picture? (i aplologize for the aarti keeping you awake during ganesh-festivities.)

this is very important, because this is why pakistan was formed, so history can repeat.

sadna#57:

Thanks for posting the picture. I really cant see what the fuss is all about. There`s not a hint of insult in that painting, which I kind of like.

zeena:

There is no concept of blasphemy among the Hindus. And please do not equate Hussain`s painting with the Danish cartoons; Hussain has great respect for the Hindu goddesses he paints, which is not the case of the Danish cartoonists.

Farzana#51:

I do not consider the demolition of the Babri Masjid as Hindu Fundamentalism; as you have said, this was a political act and what was exploited by Advani, etc. was not the religious sentiments but a deep sense of historical grievances among the Hindus about the Muslim rule. The hurt sentiments about religious figures is a new phenomenon as a reaction to the Muslim outrage over events like Salman Rushdi`s book. Of course, Hindu sentiments could always be exploited in India by spreading rumours about a Muslim publicly slaugtering a cow or ``kidnapping`` a Hindu girl.


``[As for protests over insulting Bharat Mata, why do the Hindus claim monopoly over the ownership of their motherland? Mother Earth sustains everyone equally, or should!]

That is the major problem I have… ``

There were two aspects to my statement, you picked on the one but not the other. If the painting is perceived to be an insult to Bharat Mata then shouldn`t some Muslims also be protesting against it?

I am surprised that you like the way the Hindus drape dhotis. :). I might have agreed with you if you had said that you liked the that Bengalis or some Gujaratis/Rajasthanis drape their dhotis. But you can`t seriously say that you like the way Atal Behari Vajpayi or Mulayam Singh wear their dhotis.

``At the purely cultural level, I like the way Hindus drape dhotis, I truly enjoy Bhakti sangeet, I love south Indian food, I think the temple architecture is quite awesome, I like the way they draw rangolis, and the way they fold their hands in a namaste, and I like the fact that they gave the world the zero – it is my favourite number…``

Substract dhotis, add festivals and the same goes for me too. And I believe that we like the same things about the Indian Islamic culture, probably I more than you. Whenever I go to a temple or a gurudwara, it is more to meet a socio-cultural than a religious need, I guess the same thing is probably true about your visits to the jamaat-khaana. And yet, we are identified differently. I wonder why?

[BTW, my current favourite in Bhakti music is Marathi Abhangs, even though I do not understand the language. I hope you can sometimes guide me to some good ones]

nasah:

I suspect that Hindus were never as tolerant as they like to believe. It is easy to be tolerant of others when you are ruled by them, the test of tolerance comes when you are the rulers. But I do believe that the Hindu religion is tolerant, probably due to necessity as pluralism is built-into it.

FV
[.....If you remove the sarcasm (and the typos) from this post, it captures what I am trying to convey very lucidly!...]

You kidding right? Say it is so lady - otherwise, you are just cuckoo.... hinuds don`t have to hinduise India - India is already hinduised.....I mean, just look around you.....[ don`t, if you are in Lahore.....keep your head down - they don`t like your ismaili(?) non-practicing self that much :)]....

I was watching the Ind-Pak cricket the other day - we have a new(?) bowler - Sree Santh is the name.... he was crossing himself several times [I think he was really afraid of Afridi:)].... I mean, a christian named Sree Santh? Come on - how more hinduised can india get?.....

But I know, it`s a big problem for your islamist-apologist mindset.... but what are you going to do?....Blame it on the invaders - they couldn`t manage to completely islamize india when they had the chance......:)

So what next?.... An tear-jerker on America, the Christianized country?....

As for protests over insulting Bharat Mata, why do the Hindus claim monopoly over the ownership of their motherland? Mother Earth sustains everyone equally, or should!


So muslims have a right to be equally offended when he paints bharat mata nude but they`re also offended when they have to sing Vande Mataram?

you can`t have it both ways...either being pressured to sing Vande Mataram is bad or you shouldn`t claim the right to be equally offended by the nude painting...

Re: # 59 jang
[....this is very important, because this is why pakistan was formed, so history can repeat....]

Yep - the islamist cry-baby syndrome is still prevalent - never too far from the surafce..... boo hoooo hinuds are hinduising India....boo hoooo - see hinuds support MF hussain, why don`t they arrest him, he is a trojan horse, he is a hinud puppet....... boo hooo - I am a non-practising islmist, but they still don`t like me....boo hooo

Re: # 60 DM
[...I suspect that Hindus were never as tolerant as they like to believe. ....]

No they were NOT ...Actually that`s your word - you are the one peddling this ``oh we hinuds are so tolerant of everything`` line...... And when it comes to islamist bullsh!t being dished by FV and other fellow-travellers - it pays to be rather cautious rather than being foolishly ``tolerant``....

++++

[....is easy to be tolerant of others when you are ruled by them,...]

Not really - look at muslims in europe....