The Modernity Conspiracy
Saima Shah March 13, 2006
#24 Posted by ballukhan on March 14, 2006 8:41:59 am
More conspiracy theorists around............I never considered Chomsky and Drucker as the focus of all the great debates on ``Modernity``...............I would have liked to see the author picking up more issues from the contemporary debate on ``Modernity`` than trying to rehash some propaganda regarding ``Modernity``.................
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#23 Posted by hamidm2 on March 14, 2006 7:35:14 am
doozy fest ! ...........
........ this article is an unadulterated piece of garbage !........... for a moment i thought about actually refuting the author`s silly arguments until i got to the end (which took all of about 50 secs) and read this doozy:
``A techno geek friend is convinced that media in USA is loaded with subliminal messaging that makes you go to malls, vote a certain way and ignore certain news`` ......... one is judged by the company they keep ..........
........ it seems that in additon to becoming the ultimate refuge of the lazy, shiftless and insouciant desi code coolie, the chowk has also become the dumping ground for nostalgic communists who still pine for the good old days of marx, suicidal western educated mullahs who are bewildered by modernity, and confused management strategists who want to go back to the good old barter system of global trading as practiced by bedouin shepherds centuries ago ...........
............ excuse me for being so upset, but i see this ..... this .... whatever as an affront to all powerpointologists and readers of the mckinsey quarterly !
............ but as they say, every cloud has a silver lining: maybe comrade saima and maulana masadi can become pen pals and then who knows - we might see the start of a communist-islamist alliance ......... it is time chowk started a matrimonial section to bring together these lonely hearts .............
p.s. i apologize in advance for offending ms. siama because i know that women, regardless of their feminist pretensions and protestations, expect special consideration .............
#22 Posted by ijaz_gul on March 14, 2006 7:23:22 am
Saima, you could have done without this. In any way it does not help your thesis nor do you prove it.
``Perhaps we need to understand that the holy trinity of Technology, Capitalism and Media are the guardians of the post-modern world. It is no accident that Technology is God, Capitalism the Son of God, and Media the Holy Spirit.``
Long time back I read modernity and how it effected man. It has mainl;y been due to the explosion of knowledge and not capitalism, though capitalism itself grew with the advent of technology and reached out in the form of imperialism and colonialism. However, it were the forces of nationalisn and concepts of nation states, themselves an offshoot of modernity that led to various wars of independence and decolonialisation of captive lands. At the same time transplantation of populations led to colonisation of spaces like Americas, Australia, South africa and New Zealand. Joint familiies broke into nuclear families, societies inteacted and grew on a larger canvas and tribes gave way through urbanisation to cities and nations. Remarkably, Capitalism, socialism and communism all were a result of modernity.
Whatever you are trying to say is not getting through. I agree. you need to get back to the basics of thesis.
Cheerios
``Perhaps we need to understand that the holy trinity of Technology, Capitalism and Media are the guardians of the post-modern world. It is no accident that Technology is God, Capitalism the Son of God, and Media the Holy Spirit.``
Long time back I read modernity and how it effected man. It has mainl;y been due to the explosion of knowledge and not capitalism, though capitalism itself grew with the advent of technology and reached out in the form of imperialism and colonialism. However, it were the forces of nationalisn and concepts of nation states, themselves an offshoot of modernity that led to various wars of independence and decolonialisation of captive lands. At the same time transplantation of populations led to colonisation of spaces like Americas, Australia, South africa and New Zealand. Joint familiies broke into nuclear families, societies inteacted and grew on a larger canvas and tribes gave way through urbanisation to cities and nations. Remarkably, Capitalism, socialism and communism all were a result of modernity.
Whatever you are trying to say is not getting through. I agree. you need to get back to the basics of thesis.
Cheerios
#21 Posted by aslam644 on March 14, 2006 2:09:31 am
saima
turks are the most proud people i`ve met.
BTW what is american identity, a crowd gathered from around the world a nation?
turks are the most proud people i`ve met.
BTW what is american identity, a crowd gathered from around the world a nation?
#20 Posted by burpinder on March 14, 2006 1:59:20 am
``Perhaps the arbitrary suppression of culture in any form, never leads to excellence.``
It doesn`t. There are misguided idiots in the subcontinent`s upper and middle classes who believe that suppressing their own culture is some sort of fashion statement/ status symbol; they refuse to even teach their children their native tongue, preferring instead English and Hindi. I know a couple, she`s Bong, he`s Tam and they speak to the child only in English. Idiots. Instead of instilling a healthy dose of pluralism in the child`s culture they are only sowing the seeds to a future identity crisis, when the offspring will find it hard to relate to either of his native cultures.
It doesn`t. There are misguided idiots in the subcontinent`s upper and middle classes who believe that suppressing their own culture is some sort of fashion statement/ status symbol; they refuse to even teach their children their native tongue, preferring instead English and Hindi. I know a couple, she`s Bong, he`s Tam and they speak to the child only in English. Idiots. Instead of instilling a healthy dose of pluralism in the child`s culture they are only sowing the seeds to a future identity crisis, when the offspring will find it hard to relate to either of his native cultures.
#18 Posted by sanjay on March 14, 2006 1:41:13 am
#17 Posted by zeemax on March 14, 2006 12:23:37 am
#3 by HP
You raise the standard of living for a section of population in a third world country and that section would ensure that their country stays hooked up with the first world.
Well said. These are the `pardoned turkeys` as described by Arundhti Roy.
You raise the standard of living for a section of population in a third world country and that section would ensure that their country stays hooked up with the first world.
Well said. These are the `pardoned turkeys` as described by Arundhti Roy.
#16 Posted by zeemax on March 14, 2006 12:12:55 am
It is likely that for the First World to remain First World, the Third World must remain Third World.
Not only likely, but absolutely essential. If everyone becomes a firstworlder, who is going to make all those cheap t-shirts?
Not only likely, but absolutely essential. If everyone becomes a firstworlder, who is going to make all those cheap t-shirts?
#15 Posted by sanjay on March 14, 2006 12:03:13 am
And here is some news about the great next superpower of the east :-
The Dark Side of China`s Rise
By Minxin Pei
Foreign Policy, March/April 2006
China’s economic boom has dazzled investors and captivated the world. But beyond the new high-rises and churning factories lie rampant corruption, vast waste, and an elite with little interest in making things better. Forget political reform. China’s future will be decay, not democracy.
#14 Posted by sanjay on March 13, 2006 11:57:56 pm
#13 Posted by TahirQazi on March 13, 2006 10:10:39 pm
Dear Saima Shah
As a young student I read Dostoyevsky and it was many moons ago. The idealist inside me did not like when I read, “Some people have to be killed and made to suffer to keep others fresh and alive”. I thought of it as a tyrannical remark as if he was justifying brutality and suffering. And I did not like it …. But how true was he, I think of it often now!
Except for shifting focus too quickly at some places your article is right on the mark. You feel the societal pulse so well.
There is a two tear system in every system; one for privileged and the other for disadvantaged. The same hold true at the level of nations and countries also. Privilege exists at the expense of someone else - unprivileged. The data is somewhat old but it may still be valid that the US consumed 27% of world resources and created 30% of world garbage much out of proportion its due share on the percentage basis for population. Of course the struggle is how to maintain these percentages.
The point you make about Turkey and its identity crisis is so true. I think the problem is bigger and more diverse. Lots of countries are trying to put great efforts into defining themselves in the era of identity-diffusion thank to our post-modernism. But I am not sure what Ottoman Empire contributed in her late part as compared with last 50 years that you referred to in your article.
You have covered so many points in your article that it would take another article to review it fully. But I feel must I say ….. Bravo!
Tahir Qazi
As a young student I read Dostoyevsky and it was many moons ago. The idealist inside me did not like when I read, “Some people have to be killed and made to suffer to keep others fresh and alive”. I thought of it as a tyrannical remark as if he was justifying brutality and suffering. And I did not like it …. But how true was he, I think of it often now!
Except for shifting focus too quickly at some places your article is right on the mark. You feel the societal pulse so well.
There is a two tear system in every system; one for privileged and the other for disadvantaged. The same hold true at the level of nations and countries also. Privilege exists at the expense of someone else - unprivileged. The data is somewhat old but it may still be valid that the US consumed 27% of world resources and created 30% of world garbage much out of proportion its due share on the percentage basis for population. Of course the struggle is how to maintain these percentages.
The point you make about Turkey and its identity crisis is so true. I think the problem is bigger and more diverse. Lots of countries are trying to put great efforts into defining themselves in the era of identity-diffusion thank to our post-modernism. But I am not sure what Ottoman Empire contributed in her late part as compared with last 50 years that you referred to in your article.
You have covered so many points in your article that it would take another article to review it fully. But I feel must I say ….. Bravo!
Tahir Qazi
#12 Posted by Zeena on March 13, 2006 9:14:31 pm
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#11 Posted by Zeena on March 13, 2006 9:12:50 pm
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#10 Posted by masadi on March 13, 2006 8:08:33 pm
#3 by HP <<< Where we are today is just an extension of the colonialism. >>>
yes that captures the reality of the current world situation well. The only difference is that this new colonialism has developed intricate mechanisms that perpetuate it and extend its reach to the entire globe, unlike the old colonialism that was crude and tedious.
HP : <<< Study the civil Rights movement in the US; it was encouraged by the US administration. MLK Jr. became MLK Jr. because he had strong support in the US admin >>>
True again. Reforms that could be institutionalized within the current social system were preferred as damage control by the US elite rather than changing the entire institutional setup. Thus groups like the black panthers and the Muslims and Malcolm X were deliberately marginalized and MLK made into a hero inorder to protect the status quo.
HP: <<>>
I would disagree with this, rather if even a small percent of what is spent by the US admn on the military is diverted to education most people in the US could get a decent education. However the top tier shortage, that commands huge handouts is largely artificially created.
HP: <<>>
True, but again this dependency is created through neo-colonial mechanisms. If the ``third world`` were to break free of this domination by the first world, then indeed the first world would reveal just how ``dependent`` it has been on the third, both for profits and for resources. We see this indirectly in their reactions to every country that tries to show independance and use its resources for its own benefit. We get many ``fatwas`` coming from the US elite regarding all such countries and leaders. In fact these are the only countries and leaders that become famous in the US, the ones against whom the US elite passes fatwas.
HP: <<< You raise the standard of living for a section of population in a third world country and that section would ensure that their country stays hooked up with the first world. >>>
Yes the elites in the ``Third World`` are the ones through whom the ``First world`` dominates and controls the masses there.
The term `post modern` though it is seldom realized was first coined by C. W. Mills in his 1959 book, The Sociological Imagination. He coined the word to show the rise of bureaucracies, transforming the entire social system in a rationalized structure that as a result restricts freedom and stifles reason.
The author writes <<< A low subliminal buzz, a sort of ‘numbing’, a pressure to produce and consume, a tremendous feeling of uselessness and a continuous discontent.
Who or what is still tingling?
The Third World >>>
True. Simmel discussed that regarding the blase` attitude that develops in modern metropolitan societies, Tonnies` discussed that in his difference between community (gemeinschaft) and society (gesellschaft). However instead of the Third World transforming the first to be more ``human``, the opposite is going on with the first dominating the traditions and culture of the third, and rapidly standardizing it in its predetermined position within the global pecking order.
Good topic and discussion. We need more articles like these on Chowk.
yes that captures the reality of the current world situation well. The only difference is that this new colonialism has developed intricate mechanisms that perpetuate it and extend its reach to the entire globe, unlike the old colonialism that was crude and tedious.
HP : <<< Study the civil Rights movement in the US; it was encouraged by the US administration. MLK Jr. became MLK Jr. because he had strong support in the US admin >>>
True again. Reforms that could be institutionalized within the current social system were preferred as damage control by the US elite rather than changing the entire institutional setup. Thus groups like the black panthers and the Muslims and Malcolm X were deliberately marginalized and MLK made into a hero inorder to protect the status quo.
HP: <<
I would disagree with this, rather if even a small percent of what is spent by the US admn on the military is diverted to education most people in the US could get a decent education. However the top tier shortage, that commands huge handouts is largely artificially created.
HP: <<
True, but again this dependency is created through neo-colonial mechanisms. If the ``third world`` were to break free of this domination by the first world, then indeed the first world would reveal just how ``dependent`` it has been on the third, both for profits and for resources. We see this indirectly in their reactions to every country that tries to show independance and use its resources for its own benefit. We get many ``fatwas`` coming from the US elite regarding all such countries and leaders. In fact these are the only countries and leaders that become famous in the US, the ones against whom the US elite passes fatwas.
HP: <<< You raise the standard of living for a section of population in a third world country and that section would ensure that their country stays hooked up with the first world. >>>
Yes the elites in the ``Third World`` are the ones through whom the ``First world`` dominates and controls the masses there.
The term `post modern` though it is seldom realized was first coined by C. W. Mills in his 1959 book, The Sociological Imagination. He coined the word to show the rise of bureaucracies, transforming the entire social system in a rationalized structure that as a result restricts freedom and stifles reason.
The author writes <<< A low subliminal buzz, a sort of ‘numbing’, a pressure to produce and consume, a tremendous feeling of uselessness and a continuous discontent.
Who or what is still tingling?
The Third World >>>
True. Simmel discussed that regarding the blase` attitude that develops in modern metropolitan societies, Tonnies` discussed that in his difference between community (gemeinschaft) and society (gesellschaft). However instead of the Third World transforming the first to be more ``human``, the opposite is going on with the first dominating the traditions and culture of the third, and rapidly standardizing it in its predetermined position within the global pecking order.
Good topic and discussion. We need more articles like these on Chowk.
#9 Posted by Raw_Dust on March 13, 2006 7:38:42 pm
hamzaad:
take it more as an internal-monologue and then check out how much `raw info` this piece has got... :-) like desi version of Penelope...
A low subliminal buzz yes a sort of ‘numbing’ yes yes a pressure to produce yes and consume yes a tremendous feeling yes of uselessness yes and a continuous discontent yes yes
Who or what is still tingling? yes
The Third World yes
take it more as an internal-monologue and then check out how much `raw info` this piece has got... :-) like desi version of Penelope...
A low subliminal buzz yes a sort of ‘numbing’ yes yes a pressure to produce yes and consume yes a tremendous feeling yes of uselessness yes and a continuous discontent yes yes
Who or what is still tingling? yes
The Third World yes
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