Love Ya, Dubya

To FV-

As I said, WE need our brave men and women who can openly say FU to OBL and his gang of followers........and not get terrorized by the chavanni lumpens mobilized by the mullahs.................the popular street `rage` against Bush was a mobilization by the mullahs with ample help from their counterparts across the borders.................whom are we trying to fool?

Atleast there are atleast some brave men and women who can thumb these Islamists and their ideological supporters who have been pursuing their agendas by infilterating the local masjids and inciting communal violence and hatred worldwide................

Full text: Writers` statement on cartoons
A group of 12 writers have put their names to a statement in French weekly newspaper Charlie Hebdo warning against Islamic ``totalitarianism``. Here is the text in full:


After having overcome fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism, the world now faces a new global totalitarian threat: Islamism.

We, writers, journalists, intellectuals, call for resistance to religious totalitarianism and for the promotion of freedom, equal opportunity and secular values for all.

Recent events, prompted by the publication of drawings of Muhammad in European newspapers, have revealed the necessity of the struggle for these universal values.

This struggle will not be won by arms, but in the ideological field.

It is not a clash of civilisations nor an antagonism between West and East that we are witnessing, but a global struggle that confronts democrats and theocrats.

Like all totalitarian ideologies, Islamism is nurtured by fear and frustration.

Preachers of hatred play on these feelings to build the forces with which they can impose a world where liberty is crushed and inequality reigns.

But we say this, loud and clear: nothing, not even despair, justifies choosing darkness, totalitarianism and hatred.

Islamism is a reactionary ideology that kills equality, freedom and secularism wherever it is present.

Its victory can only lead to a world of injustice and domination: men over women, fundamentalists over others.

On the contrary, we must ensure access to universal rights for the oppressed or those discriminated against.

We reject the ``cultural relativism`` which implies an acceptance that men and women of Muslim culture are deprived of the right to equality, freedom and secularism in the name of the respect for certain cultures and traditions.

We refuse to renounce our critical spirit out of fear of being accused of ``Islamophobia``, a wretched concept that confuses criticism of Islam as a religion and stigmatisation of those who believe in it.

We defend the universality of the freedom of expression, so that a critical spirit can exist in every continent, towards each and every maltreatment and dogma.

We appeal to democrats and free spirits in every country that our century may be one of light and not dark.


Signed by:

Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Chahla Chafiq

Caroline Fourest

Bernard-Henri Levy

Irshad Manji

Mehdi Mozaffari

Maryam Namazie

Taslima Nasreen

Salman Rushdie

Antoine Sfeir

Philippe Val

Ibn Warraq

Ref anil #312

[...My friends told me that marxist in the last 40 years have created an unmatched grass-root level vote-machine, and therefore it is impossible to dislodge them. The best strategy is to promote and work with the progressive leaders who can see China`s way as a model for them. Somnath Chatterjee, and the present chief minister are such people, and hope.]

No, we should tell these fcukers to take their Marxist ideology and eat it for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

It doesn`t matter what kinds of incentives the Marxist government of West Bengal provides. There should be no investment in Bengal, The fence along the Bangladeshi border is in the wrong place. It should be along the state boundary between Orissa/Bihar/Kharkhand and West Bengal. The frikking Bengalis can go commisserate with the Bangladeshis and sing ``Amar Sonar Bangla`` about their common garbage-infested flyheap of a land.

Ref parthaab #294

[Should`nt we stop brain washing the next generation, and save them from the pitfalls of religious hatred and intolerance?]

You wouldn`t be talking about the madarassahs here, would you?

Somehow, I don`t get the feeling that you are.

re:#287 by FarzanaVersey
Good God!
Bibi now quoting from Bal Thackeray`s newspaper!
What is the world coming to!
Regarding the second report, Bush was only telling the truth. There is only one global terrorism today and it is of the Islamic variety.
sridhar

#317 Anil

I did not use the term ``killer Muslims`` - I said ``killer Muslim extremists of all kinds`` - most of which are really not in the negotiation business and are not open to reason.

I was not referring to Kashmiris - I had in mind those Muslim Indian idiots (and their mindless ``leaders`` and their cheer-leaders from arm chairs) who were holding placards that they yearn to become ``suicide bombers`` - I see no reason why anyone should try to negotiate with people like that. India has tons of anti-terrorism laws on books - so why not instead identify such individuals from video and let them get a test of the slammer - it will beat a stay in the Guantanemo Bay any day - and it is lot easier to hold a placard and cheer from arm-chairs than to go through the real thing!

(Kashmir is not the topic, I understand.) I suppose doing commerce is another matter - but let us be realistic, one can only do business if business-like conditions exist. People who do not respect the rights of others do end up losing a lot of claim to their own - I personally feel that states like Bihar have been a lot more neglected than those pampered Kashmiris. Kashmiris have every right to return to the ``fold`` if they wish, but I see no reason to pamper them any further - as if they are doing a favor to the rest of the country - by throwing any special deals just for them!

US has strong commercial relations with China.

But the US never endorses the human rights violations done in China.

Re: # 315

bjkumar:

The irony of the situation is that these marxists are not dictators. They won power applying the same tactics that are employed by other parties. Marxist, party workers (foot soldiers) seem to be more dedicated than other party workers.

{Uncle Sam does not do business with China as a do-gooder - it does so for its own benefits.} That is exactly my point, rest of India can do it for its benefit, after all it is democracy. In the U.S. Chicago`s democractic party machinery was quite famous or infamous in delivering votes and jobs.

I do not know what you mean by ``Killer Muslims``, but if you are talking about Indian Kashmiris, my answer is absolutely yes. Rest of India, must negotiate and bring them back in the Indian fold. This is reflected in negotiations between Indian-Kashmiris and BJP government to the present government. Rest of India owes it to its Kashmiri citizens, just as it is negotiating with the Nagas.

The best way to tell the truth is to point to the truth and intelligent persons see the truth. Don`t you think that is what happened in China? If the rest of India is shining, then there is hardly the darkness that you are talking about. There may be darkness in some minds of powerful people. Can you do anything about the South Mississippi, even they can see Silicon Valley shine? The same way in democratic India, there will such differences due personal choices.

Anil Kapuria

this new thing with the US should not have surprised anyone(least of all the great policy -wonk (or is wanker) DM). Here are the reasons



(a) the only nation apart from the top five +germany+japan+Israel - who has mastereed the nuclear cycle is India - and no pakistan has not done and is not capable of doing so in the near future

(b) not only has it mastered the cycle but has also produced a new generation of reactors which is a local design and fabricated locally. Which means the technology it has got IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT from that in the US or the other five mentioned. WHICH MEANS that the NPT IS DEAD IN THE WATER As far as india is concerned Pakistan is not in that position as yet. FOR THE NPT MAKES NO SENSE w.r.t. INDIA. This esentially also means INDIA IS A defacto MEMBER OF THE NUCLEAR SUPPLIERS CLUB - THE GUYS WHO MONITOR NPT

(c) by virtue fo the above, and the fact that it has not proliferated nuclear technology like pakistan has half baked nuclear technology - and this is officially sanctioned nuclear proliferation by Pakistan, also imples that the world can trust India, even if it outside the NPT - Its actions are in line with the NPT`s objectives. And this is not the case with regard to Pakistan



Now this was clear in 1998. It has taken some 7-8 years for matters to come to a head - okay there is a oil crunch which makes Bush situp suddenly (note his State of Union Address).

#312 Anil

I do not buy the argument that one must negotiate with those who have killed off by force alternative positions, viewpoints, and opponents. That would legitimize all dictators.

Uncle Sam does not do business with China as a do-gooder - it does so for its own benefits.

By that logic, Indian government would be ``negotiating`` with killer Muslim extremists of all kinds - who apparently retain some support from significant Muslim street masses as well as perhaps a chunk of Muslim intelligentsia and political leaders - and appear to have become ``un-dislodgeable`` for a LONG while.

Somebody needs to be telling such people - and on a constant basis - that they are off the mark!

Those who don`t see their own benefits in seeing the light - or choose not to - shall forever grope!

Re: # 297

Dost-Mitter:

May be that explains why Somnath Chatterjee choose the most opposite end of Hindu Mahasabha.

Anil

I want this deal, Bush told PM

March 04, 2006 15:10 IST
Last Updated: March 04, 2006 15:38 IST

It was not diplomatic sweet nothings that President George W Bush whispered to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh at the airport tarmac upon his arrival in New Delhi on Wednesday evening, but even as flashbulbs popped the two leaders were negotiating the nuclear deal.

Ahead of Bush`s arrival, US Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice telephoned the prime minister to complain that the Indian negotiators were making `impossible demands` and pressed for greater flexibility by them. Dr Singh stood firm in backing his team.

As millions watched on television, Bush put his arm around Dr Singh; the two men engaged in an animated chat for several minutes with their principal aides standing nearby. The focus was the unresolved differences between the negotiators.

The US President told Dr Singh, who had made a departure from protocol to receive him, that he never engaged in negotiations.

However, Bush asserted, `I want this deal,` according to the details of the tough, tortuous and down-to-the-wire negotiations that preceded the nuclear agreement a day later.

The deal nearly did not happen but for this last-minute intervention by the US leader, sources involved in the talks said on Saturday.

With this clear directive from their President, the American negotiators engaged in negotiations with their Indian counterparts till about 2 am on Wednesday night-Thursday morning.

Hours later Bush and Dr Singh announced the landmark deal.

During her telephone call to the prime minister, Dr Rice had insisted that New Delhi should accept permanent safeguards of its nuclear facilities to which Dr Singh responded by stating that he would have no problem with that as long as the US assured India perpetual fuel supplies.

The prime minister made it clear to her that he could not negotiate outside his statement to Parliament that only 65 per cent of India`s nuclear facilities would come under international safeguards.
Dr Rice also wanted all future Indian civilian nuclear plants to be placed under international safeguards to which Dr Singh responded by stating that New Delhi had no problem with that as long as it had the right to decide which of the future plants would be declared civilian or strategic.

Finally the US accepted the Indian position, agreeing to permanent supply of fuel and New Delhi`s right to classify its nuclear facilities as civilian or military.

Describing the nuclear agreement as a ``win-win deal``, highly-placed sources in the government said the size and the direction of India`s strategic nuclear programme would be determined by India alone. Fears that the deal will result in capping or constraining nuclear deterrant were unfounded, they said.

Re: # 302

Mohar:

I would not use harsh and impatient words that you have used. However, I do share your message.

Marxist in Calcutta destroyed the industrial base, and exiled enterprising Bengalies to Delhi and other places. Delhi, after Calcutta, has the largest Bengalie population, I am told.

Marxist in Kerala have exiled Keralites to Bangalore. I am told that Bangalore`s IT industry employs more Keralites than Karnatakas.

I have always maintained that the British trained lawyers brought Independence in the last generation. The entreprenuers in my and next generations will drive India`s engine, my views about Somnath Chatterjee notwithstanding.

Now, knowing your position, I would not say what I think of Jyoti Basu, because there is no doubt, the Marxists squandered the opportunity. I have found them to be romantic dreamers, theoretician, and excellent debators, but very poor implementors. This are common Bengali traits also.

I was in Calcutta a few years ago, and saw busy intersections being manned by a traffic cop. Their argument was that automation technology will remove a job. They just could not see the effect of technology in creation of jobs and prosperity in economy. My friends told me that marxist in the last 40 years have created an unmatched grass-root level vote-machine, and therefore it is impossible to dislodge them. The best strategy is to promote and work with the progressive leaders who can see China`s way as a model for them. Somnath Chatterjee, and the present chief minister are such people, and hope.

Like it or not, they have both ``the lathi and bhainse`` in Bengal. If the capitalist America can do business and give access to the market and technology to communist China, then rest of India can do business with marxist Bengal as well. They indeed exert clout, because they have votes and unmatched vote machine.

Anil

#309 by FarzanaVersey

[....Think about why the common person in the street is so incensed.....]


Correction:


....Think about why the common Muslim in the street is so incensed.....

#300 by parthaab

[Re: # 296

Ramanujam, Please do not PRETEND as if you dont know what Guantenamo Bay is about. If you are still confused, then dont be asking me.
See the reports by the United Nations on the internet.]



parthaab,

I will request you politely for the last time to answer my question. I`ll even repeat it for you here.

Kindly answer the following question directly:

Let`s say an Islamic terrorist was apprehended AFTER he has shot to death about a hundred little schoolchildren. And the police find out that he has links to a gang who is threatening a nuclear strike on a city, potentially wiping out millions of people.

At this point, would you say it would be okay to use torture to extract the information about the whereabouts of the terrorists?

Just a simple YES or NO would do.


I try to be polite to people who are polite, so I would appreciate it if you gave me a direct answer. If you do not want to give me a direct answer, or feel that you are unable to give me a direct answer, kindly say so, and also state why.




Thank you.

Re: # 291

[``This may seem like impotent rage, but it will simmer and if you get close it will burn.

How long can the cocoon protect? ``

FV you are on the brink of doing what most Islamists are doing.......simmer with hate for US until you explode...........I could not see any thing but borrowed and re furbished rhetoric..........stop it before you scald yourself............ ]

Ballukhan, the rage has been expressed by far too many people out in the streets, spontaneously. Do you think they will explode too? I am surprised by your post. I have, no doubt, repeated my position...that does not amount to borrowing and refurbishing. If anything, it is without any emebellishment.

Think about why the common person in the street is so incensed. I am unlikely to scald myself (not with this sort of thing, anyway), but thanks for the concern...

#307

Perhaps I should have thought of the answer myself.

[What do they have to show - for all their ``efforts``?]
A few Swiss bank accounts, perhaps.

#305 and others

Bush tells it like it is, like he always does. Like everyone should.

There is no insult intended for the people of Pakistan - who, in my view, are as much victims as anybody else (so, stifle that urge to ``gloat`` - those of you who feel that way.) Of course, the victimizers live among them - those who sold this whole mirage of ten to one ratio and that of their own ``exclusivity`` - some of them might even be present on this site!

A part of me even feels sad for these people - sitting on that nuke pile - wondering what comes next - and when the ``marching orders`` will come from above - or from below?

Like my recently learnt phrase goes, which I shall try never to forget: ``size does matter!``

What do they have to show - for all their ``efforts``?