The Bubble Bursts

A good news for masadi/Urstruly

(Frenchman Philippe Troussier and his wife Dominique have converted to Islam in the Moroccan capital where they live, sources close to the couple confirmed.

The widely-travelled Troussier, 51, is former coach of the Moroccan national team and French club Marseille. He also had spells in charge of South Africa, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Burkina Faso, Qatar and Japan, whom he guided to the second round of the 2002 World Cup.

``Troussier is no longer Philippe, he has taken the name Omar and his wife is no longer Dominique but Amina,`` the French-Moroccan daily L`Opinion reported Thursday.)

Way to go man

Regards

#389 by khalid_ahmad

Arey Yaar ... he had a son named Ibrahim from Maria, who had died at around 2 years age. What happened to your encyclopaedia of hadith???

Zeemax: That is what he contemplated upon sitting in a cave (thus far uninvited by anyone including Gabriel). When he did arrive at a synthesis, he declared prophethood.

Well this is contradicted by other narratives as well. First of all these ``revelation`` didn`t come credibly in one shot for it to make non-contradicting sense, like it did for, say, Buddha.

It was merely a matter of personal convenience and the state of his irrationality at a particular moment. So if he found an unwelcome dog in his bath water, that would be an inspiration for a sura disparaging dogs. Or if prevailing conditions forced him to mutter a praise for the Arabian goddesses of the day, we would ``receive`` such suras. If the danger passed away, the suras could be conveniently retracted. Talk about perfect knowledge of the perfect recepient.

So relieved were his companions at Mohamad`s death that they confessed: Narrated Ibn `Umar: ``During the lifetime of the Prophet we used to avoid chatting leisurely and freely with our wives lest some Divine inspiration might be revealed concerning us. But when the Prophet had died, we started chatting leisurely and freely (with them).`` Sunnah Hadith Bhukari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 115

``...lest some Divine inspiration might be revealed concerning us...`` Now that is so funny, and tells a lot about the charlatan. Synthesis, my silicone foot!

#386 by Zeemax

[If someone strikes his stick to the ground and it blows some dust around, that`s ordinary; if it makes a hole through rock, that`s extraordinary; if it starts a fire in the hole at the same time, that`s incredible; but if it turns into a snake ... that`s unexplainable]

No, you`d sniff around the guy for smell of sura/dope, or you`d do the narrator a favor and drag him to the nearest lunatic asylum. To extend your logic, David Copperfield`s performance in a Las Vegas show would be the ultimate manifestation of divinity.

And for the ``successor`` part, how about a simpler theory? That despite all his infinite women and all his nightly physical prowesses, he was perhaps deficient in the ability, like so many millions unrelated to faith, are today? A genetic defect - had it so mercilessly not missed his father, we would have been living in an infinitely more peaceful world?

#388

Zeemax sahib,

(By the way .. Manu (right) and Abha (left) were quite nice looking. Wouldn`t mind a little brahamcharya experiment myself ... :-) )



Going by the broad smile on the ladies` faces, it would seem they did not mind enjoying a little brahmacharya too.

Regards

#354 by Mantolives

No offence to anyone, but I just thought Gandhi`s motive a little curious ...

As a brahamachari, he would normally have been expected to eschew all contact with women, but instead he took naked women to bed with him. Amongst those who slept with him were Sushila Nayar, Sucheta Kriplani, Abha and Manu. Gandhi viewed the practice as an experiment in brahamacharya. For him this was a sure way to test his mastery of celibacy. He believed that if he could succeed in his brahamacharya experiment, he would be able to vanquish Muhammad Ali Jinnah with his spiritual power and foil his plan for India`s partition.

By the way .. Manu (right) and Abha (left) were quite nice looking. Wouldn`t mind a little brahamcharya experiment myself ... :-)

#365 by Raw_Dust

``As for divinity? That incredible personal charisma couldn`t have been anything else. ``
empirical for the use of the word ``Divinity`` above. Let me know, what kinda data are you sitting on that noone else have got to verify the Divine.

Raw_Dust Bhai, how does one have empirical data on divinity? Its only through observation right? If someone strikes his stick to the ground and it blows some dust around, that`s ordinary; if it makes a hole through rock, that`s extraordinary; if it starts a fire in the hole at the same time, that`s incredible; but if it turns into a snake ... that`s unexplainable. It is all a matter of degree.

Perhaps we explain the unexplainable by terming it `divinity`.

#383 by kaalchakra

Muhammad`s charisma doesn`t help answer your original question: why are so many of his followers ready to kill and die in defence of his name?

Oh. The answer to this was in #348 i.e. ``Take your pick ... and people did. That`s why he didn`t leave a successor.``

Muhammad, as far as we can rely on whatever information we have, was a man of several varying contrasts. Most of these are reflected in Quran itself. More so, these are reflected in the first four caliphs who tried to model themselves as best as possible on Muhammad, but at the same time displayed widely variant styles of governance and dealing with conflict. Conceivably, these same variant and conflicting personality traits resulted in later emergence of multitudes of sects ardently following the SAME person, but ranging from the spiritualistic sufis/mystics on one extreme, to the pragmatic khojas/ismailis/memons in the middle, to the jehadis (wahabis?) for whom the only real purpose of life is to kill before themselves being killed; and many others of various shades in between the spectrum.

When you say `` Muhammad`s personality and personal life would matter only to the extent that they constrain realistic Islam`s ideological expressions and cultural mores``, it is problematic because there isn`t any ONE realistic Islamic ideology. There are many. And All the versions are TRUE Islam, and ALL can be justified through Quran and Muhammad`s life by one anecdote or another. It really depends on which one is most visible and dominant at any given time to be called ``True`` Islam.

#375 by sadna on March 23, 2006 8:51am PT

On the contrary, we do not have the same belief system, we have VERY DIFFERENT belief systems. I wrote to Urstruly(#315)

``And yes I am one of those who does not see anything positive in killing and dying for the Prophet. I do see plenty of positives in Muslims I have known throughout my life, but I do not see anything positive in killing and dying for the Prophet. ``

Yeah that`s my belief too .. really .. promise ... cross my heart and hope to die. If you don`t believe me then YOU are the fanatic Ma`am, not me!

#373 / #374 by Ramanujan

Hmm ... Excellent article. Thanks for the reference.

It further proves my point as to how Muhammad still controls many educated/modern people`s minds. Quite effortlessly, really. Or do you think Mr. Ahmed might have been the graduate of a Madressah?

You have drawn many conclusions re #348 e.g. `` you are the common Islamic bigot``. No Sir I am not! ``the usual arguments like - He must have been divine, otherwise how could he have sex with so many wives? I never highlighted sex .. I was referring to his extraordinary mental & physical faculties. lowly morons who bring up the same idiotic madrassa-logic. Does my presented possible scenario on the irrelevance of Gabriel, and Muhammad`s religion being his synthesis of three religions, sound like madrassa logic? It is downright heretical worthy of a death fatwa.

Actually, you have completely misconstrued my post, as you say right in the beginning YOU HAVE FORMULATED AN ANSWER FOR YOURSELF ALREADY. I had not formulated my *answer*. I had said ``So, since you guys haven`t been much help, I have to formulate my own *thesis*.``

But never mind ...

re: Zeemax # 348

A good explanation but it may be off the mark.

Muhammad`s charisma doesn`t help answer your original question: why are so many of his followers ready to kill and die in defence of his name? Men could be very charismatic while also orienting their followers quite differently.

An explanation focused on Muhammad`s charisma can`t help but suggest that the man`s personal appeal to many reflects the continuing allure of death and violence.

Instead, the reasons for the phenomenon you highlighted could be sociological and cultural. Muhammad`s personality and personal life would matter only to the extent that they constrain realistic Islam`s ideological expressions and cultural mores.

Only a few articles ago on cowk and The News, NFP was like a Pragmatic Marxist hailing away Gen. Musharraf`s ``liberal revolution,`` now it took just two days of fundo violence for him to turn into a heart-broken Alarmist Marxist?

Some obvious signs from God that Allah or the Gibreel dude never had any tete-a-tete with the 1st grader`s soulmate:


1) In spite of some islamic countries having oil, their per-capita income is still very low.

2) All Islamic countries are backward, and falling further behind every day.

3) Muslims die in far greater numbers any day of the year than people of any other religion.

4) Pakistan is forced to suck up to China, who are probably the toughest on Muslims of any country.

5) China`s economy is booming.

6) Pakistan gets kicked around by virtually everybody.

7) The (un)holy land of Saudi Arabia is under the thumb of America.


....to be continued

Manto # 268 and others
(Are you denying that Gandhi was with his grand nieces sleeping and supposedly testing his vow of chastity? Are you denying that he was naked with them- something which your own source quotes?

He was not a great man though..)


A man does two girls a night at the age of 78 and still you do not consider him great. You must be hung, man. Whatever little respect I have for MKG is for his amazing strength. If it was proven that he did not actually do anything with them I would lose even that respect for him.

Urstruly 302
(Why is it so hard to comprehend that there are millions and millions of people who would lay down their lives for Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) for the very simple reason that they love him unconditionally; )

If millions of people are willing to lay down their lives for THE AMAZING MAN, I can only say Ameen and Godspeed. But I hope they don’t take us kaffirs with them.

Regards

harish_hyd #349

unfair to dogs :-)

there`s deluded and there`s paki-deluded..

zeemax...

Exit Dr Abdullah

THE real reasons behind the dismissal of Afghanistan`s Foreign Minister Dr Abdullah Abdullah remain shrouded in mystery, with a number of theories circulating. Most observers believe his rather open remarks against the present American policy on the Iran nuclear problem have led to his removal. Some in Pakistan will also believe his increasingly confrontationist stance towards Islamabad since before the Taliban were ousted has finally proved his undoing. Then there is the tussle within the Afghan polity, with members of the former Northern Alliance, which stood up to the Taliban in the last days, slowly being shown the door. Only one former warlord, Herat`s Ismail Khan remains in the cabinet.
Considering the facts, it seems that more than the first two reasons, high-level infighting is behind Dr Abdullah`s dismissal. However, it is true that his pointing out flaws in a sensitive area of American foreign policy would not have been taken too well by the Karzai regime`s benefactors in Washington. And though a foreign minister`s remarks on a potentially explosive situation in a neighbouring country should not merit the axe from the US, it does seem to have been one of the last nails in his coffin. But those thinking his unending list of charges against Pakistan, one of the major stakeholders in the so called War on Terror, has prompted his end, need to take note that his successor, Mr Karzai`s former advisor on foreign affairs Dr Rangeen Dadfar Spanta, is no friend of Pakistan either. Also, if Pakistan-bashing were tabooed in the terror-war, Mr Karzai`s personal outlook on Islamabad`s role would have been adjusted first. It seems that despite internal differences, there is an agreed position among the remnants of the Northern Alliance and new members of the Karzai regime towards Pakistan, which is not very favourable.

#354 vakil sahib, you have presented no evidence. Case dismissed.

By the way, if you have trouble finding books in pakistan, contact Mr. Veeresh Malik from dilli. He writes here occasionally and is known to be a very generous person. He`d send you and other gandhiphobes in the family copies of Freedom at Midnight, gratis, so you don`t have to share.