Jawahara Saidullah April 3, 2006
#260 Posted by jawahara on April 6, 2006 5:04:53 am
ZahraG, the last paragraph was perhaps a reflection of my desire to see something positive come out of the Ummah. However, it`s more than that. Secret rituals like FGM which have been folded into religious practice and which the clergy actually supports, or at least ignores, in those countries, cannot be fixed by outside influences. Amesty International (not one of my favorite organizations but still) or whoever cannot fix it, no one else can, expect Muslims. Anyone, not part of the Ummah, and who tries to circumvent religion will be met with distrust about their motives. There are organizations in most countries that practice FGM who protest it and write about it, but they have very little power because those that can make the change do nothing or actively encourage it.
So, in my mind, only an educated Ummah, speaking as one and globally can actually make the change. Whether that happens or not is anyone`s guess. Maybe once all the cartoons threatening Allah and Mohammad are done away with....
So, in my mind, only an educated Ummah, speaking as one and globally can actually make the change. Whether that happens or not is anyone`s guess. Maybe once all the cartoons threatening Allah and Mohammad are done away with....
#259 Posted by aslam644 on April 6, 2006 4:24:04 am
#238 by hamidm2 on April 5, 2006 12:03pm PT
since you are the official chowk JESTER and CLOWN stick to your job, let the chowk editors do theirs
since you are the official chowk JESTER and CLOWN stick to your job, let the chowk editors do theirs
#258 Posted by ZahraJ on April 5, 2006 10:40:58 pm
Jawahra,
Your article brings up an important issue. Based on the sensitivity of the issue under discussion, I was not expecting the ending passage to be what it is. I think you have softened up the ending for certain readership :( It is impractical to assume anything positive from the Ummah on real life issues pertaining to human beings or anything civil. Do we have any track record of Ummah making positive waves? Have they ever stood up when they needed to? It`s important to be a realist than an optimist in these circumstances. In any case, thanks for devoting an article to this issue.
Your article brings up an important issue. Based on the sensitivity of the issue under discussion, I was not expecting the ending passage to be what it is. I think you have softened up the ending for certain readership :( It is impractical to assume anything positive from the Ummah on real life issues pertaining to human beings or anything civil. Do we have any track record of Ummah making positive waves? Have they ever stood up when they needed to? It`s important to be a realist than an optimist in these circumstances. In any case, thanks for devoting an article to this issue.
#257 Posted by bjkumar on April 5, 2006 6:56:24 pm
#247
There may be some truth in what you say here. This interactor has been less than consistent on many fronts. The large number of times I have tendered apologies is well known to everyone.
However, there is a mile of difference between occasional outbursts under provocative circumstances, followed by expressions of regret - and the deliberate baiting of individuals under the cover of ``power`` followed by the highly lop-sided exercise of the same - especially by individuals who themselves complain so vociferously of being baited. What does that do to the credibility of such individuals?! And how does it matter if they conduct such baiting directly or through their two-bit minions!
Sometimes people draw their own limits and boundary lines.
Enough said on this issue from this interactor!
#256 Posted by bjkumar on April 5, 2006 5:08:19 pm
Recommendations excerpted from the U.S. State Department Report (required by the Congress) on the prevalence of the practice of female genital mutilation (FGM) and the existence and enforcement of laws prohibiting this practice, along with recommendations on how the United States Government can best work to eliminate this practice. (The full report is available at “http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/9424.pdf”)
U.S. policy remains based on the recognition that FGM is a serious health issue and an abuse of internationally recognized human rights standards. The U.S. Government approach towards FGM is part of a larger commitment to combat violence against women around the world and advance the status of women. The United States has joined international efforts to eradicate FGM through a strategy that rests on four pillars: education; the social, cultural, political and economic empowerment of women; enforcement of laws; and evaluation of programs. This policy recognizes that elimination of FGM is not simply a law enforcement issue, but also a profound cultural, social and economic issue. Programs aimed at eliminating FGM must therefore involve the entire community and be tailored to meet local conditions. ....
The following recommendations follow this four-pillar strategy.
1. EDUCATION
a) Support basic education programs for women and girls. This includes instruction drawn from local customs and oral tradition. Support efforts to keep young girls in school. Improve the status of women and girls as a valuable member of society.
b) Support education about sexually transmitted disease prevention and treatment, safe motherhood and sexual and gender-based violence prevention, which includes FGM.
c) Ensure that women and girls have access to information concerning the harmful health effects and risks to health posed by FGM. Provide health care and information pertaining to FGM including information about women`s bodies, particularly sexual and reproductive health as well as the harmful effects of FGM such as infertility, pregnancy complications, fistulae and incontinence.
d) Support training for health care providers regarding the medical complications resulting from FGM, as well as the need to treat patients who have been subjected to this practice with sensitivity and understanding.
e) Support provision of health information, technical assistance and financial support to women and local women`s organizations to empower them to oppose FGM.
f) Provide information about the harmful effects of FGM to members of the university community, particularly young men, who may be influential in changing social attitudes about this practice in the future.
g) Support regional and international initiatives to combat FGM, such as – conferences addressing FGM, model legislation, ``best practices`` in terms of programs that have successfully reduced the incidence of FGM and show the beneficial consequences of educating and empowering women and promoting women`s human rights. Support the work of the UN Special Rapporteurs on violence against women and on traditional practices affecting the health of women and children.
h) Support and encourage intra-country, inter-country and regional sharing, dissemination and scaling up of ``best practices`` to end FGM.
i) Encourage UN agencies and other donors to work closely with local and technical organizations on FGM for greatest effectiveness on such a sensitive cultural issue.
j) Encourage, within countries where FGM is commonly practiced, governments to allow local NGOs and civil society groups to work freely at the grass roots level to bring about social change to eliminate FGM. In restrictive political conditions, no such work is possible.
k) Support networking among NGOs and grassroots organizations, as well as the testing of new models.
l) Support widespread public information media campaigns to educate all members of the community about the harmful effects of FGM. Efforts should be tailored to specific groups, including men, women, boys, girls, the elderly, religious leaders, community leaders and the practitioners who perform FGM.
2. EMPOWERMENT OF WOMEN
a) Support micro credit schemes for women.
b) Support job training for women.
c) Support training of former excisors in other occupations.
d) Support the provision of information on the human rights of women. Support women`s right to bodily integrity.
e) Support efforts to increase women`s participation in and access to decision-making in institutions of power and governance at local, national and international levels.
3. ENFORCEMENT OF FGM LAWS
a) Support host countries` efforts to draft, implement and enforce legislation pertaining to FGM.
b) Support dissemination of information about the law throughout the country in all local languages.
c) Support provision of graphic information about the law in those areas of the country with a high degree of illiteracy.
d) Include in any information campaign about the law, information on the harmful effects of FGM on a woman`s health.
e) Support training for law enforcement officials, judges and lawyers about the law.
4. EVALUATION OF PROGRAMS
a) Support documentation, review and evaluation of approaches and programs for eliminating FGM to determine effectiveness.
b) Support development and testing of new approaches that focus on the ``demand and supply`` issues of FGM.
c) Support analysis of data on FGM prevalence through Demographic and Health Surveys.
d) Support cross-national analysis of data on FGM prevalence collected in Demographic and Health Surveys, as well as qualitative studies on the process leading to the decision to circumcise or not to circumcise a female child.
#255 Posted by Raw_Dust on April 5, 2006 4:27:59 pm
#254
that i figure, was a self-reference on the spiel about tribal coercion which works by drowning the underdogs/rebels out in decibels of abuse. and where possible giving `em a mukhatan mai like treatment.
that i figure, was a self-reference on the spiel about tribal coercion which works by drowning the underdogs/rebels out in decibels of abuse. and where possible giving `em a mukhatan mai like treatment.
#254 Posted by scout on April 5, 2006 4:12:04 pm
HP,
why would you dictate what Jawahara writes and how she writes it?
why would you dictate what Jawahara writes and how she writes it?
#253 Posted by bjkumar on April 5, 2006 2:53:57 pm
Excerpted from a news item published in February 2004 in the Women’s News magazine (http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/1718)
Activists Call for More Protective Laws
Activists are agitating for greater protections for U.S.-born girls and young women who visit or are deported to African countries where FGM occurs and for laws that criminalize sending girls overseas to be cut. The United Kingdom, France and Sweden not only prohibit the act of genital cutting itself but also any attempt to aid or abet it either at home or abroad.
Although U.S. law does not provide such far-reaching protections, some women whose children are at risk for FGM have won asylum in this country.
One year ago, a federal appeals court blocked the deportation of Philomena Nwaokolo, a Nigerian woman who claimed her U.S.-born daughter would be subjected to FGM if forced to return to her native country.
…..
Nwaokolo`s case was the first in which a U.S. court recognized FGM as torture under the United Nations Convention Against Torture, which became U.S. law in 1994, according to Morton Sklar, the executive director of the World Organization Against Torture USA, based in Washington, D.C. The circuit court ruling provides another legal avenue for women seeking refuge in this country from genital cutting.
….
Heavy Burden of Proof for Danger
Women fearful of FGM who wish to remain in this country under the torture convention must meet a heavy burden in proving that their state of origin condones the practice. Amnesty International reports that 14 African countries have laws against female circumcision, but they are not well enforced.
Immigrant women generally seek relief from genital mutilation by claiming asylum based on a fear of persecution in their home countries. In 1996, Fauziya Kassindja became the first woman to win asylum in this country on the grounds that she would be subjected to FGM if deported to Nigeria. Her case established FGM as a form of gender-based persecution that may qualify women for U.S. asylum.
….
Conservatives want to cut back on gender-based asylum claims because of the so-called “private” nature of domestic crimes, said Sklar, and because they fear a flood of asylum claims.
….
Two months ago, a federal appeals court upheld the deportation of Doris Oforji, a Nigerian woman residing illegally in the United States who had requested asylum on the grounds that her daughters would be subjected to FGM if she were deported.
Although it upheld the decision to deport Oforji, the appeals court acknowledged that her decision to either leave her children behind in the U.S. or put them in harm`s way in Nigeria is “a choice no mother wants to make.”
….
Education as a Means of Protection
Aside from legal efforts, activists say educating African immigrant communities about FGM is the best method of protecting children from the practice and offering relief to women suffering from the medical and psychological consequences of genital mutilation.
“The law isn`t enough,” said Bien-Aime of Equality Now. “It is important as a deterrent, but people need education. We need people on the ground who have access to girls and young women at risk, to help them understand that not only is the procedure against the law, but also that there are harmful effects.”
In 1999, Sudanese-born MacArthur award winner Dr. Nawal Nour of Boston`s Brigham and Women`s Hospital founded the African Women`s Health Center, the only clinic in the country to focus on the physical and emotional needs of female circumcision victims. Organizations such as the Research Action and Information Network for the Bodily Integrity of Women, or RAINBO, in New York work with African community groups to teach immigrants about the dangers of genital cutting.
“There`s a growing sense of feminism out there,” said Dorchen Leidholdt, legal director at Sanctuary for Families in New York City, which works with West African immigrants. “Women are realizing this is an unacceptable practice.”
#252 Posted by HP on April 5, 2006 2:43:29 pm
Jang,
Scoring a point has never been your most successful weapon.
All religions historically are anti women. That is the reality of the tribal lifestyle. Hindu, Muslim or for that matter any religion that has emerged out of tribalism or even more primitive societies, would just not deal with the women issues.
When awareness is raised in a positive manner the scions of religions or societies end up responding to it. Suti is no longer a widely practiced Hindu custom because some people took a sensible approach in dealing with that.
I am not trying to defend the religion. In fact, I think Islam is one of the worst religion for a woman to follow but if your approach is to create false dilemmas and accusations to introduce a subject, you are not going to go too far with that.
Scoring a point has never been your most successful weapon.
All religions historically are anti women. That is the reality of the tribal lifestyle. Hindu, Muslim or for that matter any religion that has emerged out of tribalism or even more primitive societies, would just not deal with the women issues.
When awareness is raised in a positive manner the scions of religions or societies end up responding to it. Suti is no longer a widely practiced Hindu custom because some people took a sensible approach in dealing with that.
I am not trying to defend the religion. In fact, I think Islam is one of the worst religion for a woman to follow but if your approach is to create false dilemmas and accusations to introduce a subject, you are not going to go too far with that.
#251 Posted by bjkumar on April 5, 2006 2:36:26 pm
Excerpted from the web-site (http://www.religioustolerance.org/fem_cira.htm)
Genital Mutilation among immigrants:
This operation is occasionally performed on children of immigrants from some Muslim countries of the Middle East, Africa, Indonesia and other Muslim countries in Asia. It is seen by some of its supporters as a religious duty, social custom, and/or a necessary operation for health reasons. It is criticized by those in opposition as a cruel mutilation of a young girl in order to reduce her sexual response after puberty.
In the West, the procedure is outlawed in Australia (six states), Burkina Faso, Canada, Central African Republic, Côte d’Ivoire, Djibouti, Ghana, Guinea, New Zealand, Nigeria (3 states), Norway, Senegal, Sweden, Tanzania, Togo, the United Kingdom, and the United States.
After 20 years of personal effort, Representative Patricia Schroeder (D-CO) saw a US federal bill, “Federal Prohibition of Female Genital Mutilation Act of 1995” passed in 1996-SEP. The bill had been introduced by Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nevada). The law provides for prison sentences of up to 5 years for anyone who “circumcises, excises, or infibulates the whole or any part of the labia majora or labia minora or clitoris of another person who has not attained the age of 18.”
US representatives to the World Bank and similar financial institutions are required to oppose loans to countries where FGM is prevalent and in which there are no anti-FGM educational programs. The law took effect on 1997-MAR-30. The first charges under the law were made in late 2003 when a California couples was arrested in a FBI sting operation allegedly after having agreed to perform a FGM procedure on two fictitious girls.
FGM has also been criminalized at the state level in California, Minnesota, North Dakota, Rhode Island, and Tennessee, and other states. At least one FGM assistance, education and support group is operating in the U.S. among immigrants from countries that practice FGM.
Section 273.3 of the Canadian Criminal Code protects children who are ordinarily resident in Canada, (as citizens or landed migrants) from being removed from the country and subjected to FGM. In the US and Canada, the very small percentage of Muslims who wish to continue the practice often find it impossible to find a doctor who will cooperate. The operation may then be done illegally in the home by poorly trained persons, under less than sterile conditions.
Specialists in Denver, CO, reported in 1998 that at least 6,000 immigrants have settled in the area from African countries which widely practice FGM. Dr. Terry Dunn, director of a women’s clinic in that city commented: “I know of one patient where it was clear it was performed in this country.” About 4 FGM cases are seen each year at the clinic.
Legislation against FGM can be counter-productive in some cases. It might force the practice deeply underground. Women may not seek medical care later in life because their parents might be charged. The operation can be life threatening if performed by untrained individuals; if the operation is botched, the parents may be reluctant to take the child to a hospital out of fear of being criminally charged with child abuse. On the other hand, it does indicate that the government has taken a stand against FGM. This, and potential penalties, may well cause some parents to decide against having their daughter(s) mutilated.
On 1999-FEB-3, Hawa Greou went on trial in France on charges of “voluntarily bodily injury causing mutilation or permanent disability.” She is alleged to having mutilated the genitals of about 50 young girls. Also charged were 27 parents of the victims. The case was triggered by a complaint by a woman of Malian origin, Mariatou Koita. Both she and her sister were allegedly mutilated by Greou. Jean Chavais, the defendant`s lawyer, admits that the mutilations were carried out. He said : “If the trial can help bring about an end to this custom, then it will be useful. But punishment is not as effective as education and prevention...This is an African custom that has existed for centuries. It takes a long time to change habits.” Ms. Greou, known among the Malian community in Paris as “Mama Greou” had received a one year suspended sentence in 1994 for excising two girls. This time, she was given an 8 year jail sentence. Parents received sentences ranging from a 3 year suspended sentence to 2 years in prison.
#250 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on April 5, 2006 2:27:20 pm
Jang #248,
I see where you are going. You are saying that while the Hindu religion itself does not condone female infanticide, it applies pressure for other reasons that may cause people to indulge in that horrible undertaking.
I can see a similar situation in Islam. In fact, I was horrified about this FGM practice among Muslims, because in Islam there is sufficient pressure to preserve female life - especially because of the burial of female infants that the new religion forbade. But just as in your example, the unnatural pressure from Islam for ``piety`` and the ``sin of premarital sex`` may be a contributing factor in permitting the heinous crime of FGM.
I see where you are going. You are saying that while the Hindu religion itself does not condone female infanticide, it applies pressure for other reasons that may cause people to indulge in that horrible undertaking.
I can see a similar situation in Islam. In fact, I was horrified about this FGM practice among Muslims, because in Islam there is sufficient pressure to preserve female life - especially because of the burial of female infants that the new religion forbade. But just as in your example, the unnatural pressure from Islam for ``piety`` and the ``sin of premarital sex`` may be a contributing factor in permitting the heinous crime of FGM.
#248 Posted by jang on April 5, 2006 2:18:58 pm
just to put out ultra-sensitive defenders of the true religion at ease ;-)
consider gender selctive foeticide. while it may be true that some causes are non-religious.. greed, punju culture (agriculture..boys better), khandan ka naam, there is also a religious pressure to produce a boy becuase only a boy may do hindu religious death anniversary ritual (shraddha) else you will be hungry in the heavens. so, given that you dont want many kids, ultrasound is available, geneder selective abortion became acceptable.
now, hindu religion does not request or condone gender selective abortion...but its culpable no matter.
consider gender selctive foeticide. while it may be true that some causes are non-religious.. greed, punju culture (agriculture..boys better), khandan ka naam, there is also a religious pressure to produce a boy becuase only a boy may do hindu religious death anniversary ritual (shraddha) else you will be hungry in the heavens. so, given that you dont want many kids, ultrasound is available, geneder selective abortion became acceptable.
now, hindu religion does not request or condone gender selective abortion...but its culpable no matter.
#247 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on April 5, 2006 2:12:06 pm
#243 bjkumar {``If Jawahara made a “mistake” as you so glibly paw out in your interact #242, what the heck kept you from coming in and contributing YOUR two-bits to the effect and setting the right tone?! Instead, you had your ass parked somewhere else – and show up just in time to offer this lame dog of an excuse!
This dog don’t hunt!
#240, bjkumar {``As far as discussions on this board are concerned, you will NEVER get the Maulana Ullus and Ullies of the world to agree to any statement which sows the slightest seeds of doubt on any practices he or she would associate with his or her faith!
It is good fun for some of the interactors here to toss around double-entendres and accumulate one more arrow to shoot at each other – that’s all! ``}
BJ,
Obviously you are taking this topic quite seriously and not refraining from taking shots at HP or Urstruly. Hypocrisy is something that I have zero tolerance for.
This dog don’t hunt!
#240, bjkumar {``As far as discussions on this board are concerned, you will NEVER get the Maulana Ullus and Ullies of the world to agree to any statement which sows the slightest seeds of doubt on any practices he or she would associate with his or her faith!
It is good fun for some of the interactors here to toss around double-entendres and accumulate one more arrow to shoot at each other – that’s all! ``}
BJ,
Obviously you are taking this topic quite seriously and not refraining from taking shots at HP or Urstruly. Hypocrisy is something that I have zero tolerance for.
#246 Posted by jang on April 5, 2006 2:09:02 pm
#242 HP
``This might serve as lesson for future writers and the editors of this site that serious issues like this one would only have a serious discussion if the author is coached ....``
this reminds of old interacts between some learned folks and some self-taught (maybe tahmed)..in which the learned (urstruly or naqsh..i dont remember) said that only those ``competent`` (i.e. the ulema) can have serious discussion. others lack the religious scholarship and rigor necessary.
``This might serve as lesson for future writers and the editors of this site that serious issues like this one would only have a serious discussion if the author is coached ....``
this reminds of old interacts between some learned folks and some self-taught (maybe tahmed)..in which the learned (urstruly or naqsh..i dont remember) said that only those ``competent`` (i.e. the ulema) can have serious discussion. others lack the religious scholarship and rigor necessary.
#245 Posted by bjkumar on April 5, 2006 2:05:11 pm
#244 Hate Pot
It is quite interesting that ``chowk-staff`` (or ``chowk-staffin``) thinks that #244 is actually relevant to this topic - and that its language and tone is actually ``non-confrontational`` and consistent with chowk ``guidelines``!!
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