A Thousand Cuts

#325,
We have an idiot who makes it his aim in life to go around annoying, boring, and bothering people with khamkhwa ke posts, totally unrelated to the topic. This useless person compiles all kinds of information, relevant or not, to get brownie points in justifying his chapakhanatia chaprasi existence.

``Just tell me how best can FGM be eradicated from the face of this earth.``

Do you really want that Bro Zeemax? Of course the action options have been discussed in great detail already. Let me look thru them again and get back to you later with my choices. Thanks for the relief on the arbitration jon. Good night now.

MannyD

Please state your position in clear terms. It is obvious you are not unbiased so you cannot be the arbitrator.

Now please. Just bulleted points. Just tell me how best can FGM be eradicated from the face of this earth.

Thanks.

From #269: ``Zeemax: Because sub-saharan Africa is too far gone, irretrievably if you ask me. I think you should worry more about feeding them otherwise they will go back into slavery or extinction. It is a question of priorities you see. ``

Yeah, the Americans said about the same thing about India too in the sixties. Let Indians die, concentrate on saving Pakistan.

What is your final answer Zeemax Pai? Is the sub-saharan Africa too far gone or are the somalian beauties beckoning you with their ancient civilization?

#334: ``FMG or no FMG, they would end up like that anyways.``
Yes, that is my opinion.
Oh, so FMG did have a hand in their ending up like that? How so?
If it did not, why throw in those pictures in the mix of variables?
Jawhara`s article or the so called feminists did not bring in the famine. You did.
The ball is in your court to show the relationship.

Me a racist? Nah, I would say the samething about Koreans, Danish or Japanese.)

`Gangrene? When did anyone say FMG was to remove gangrinous parts to keep the victim alive?`

I said that it is not the case of Gangrene. I think you agree with that assertion, based on your statement above.
Arbitration is possible only if both parties agree to it. Threads and articles on Chowk die with or without everybody agreeing on everything. What do you say Samina?

``all I`m saying is that they can still survive with this barbaric custom if they are alive to get this practised away and done with and banished forever, just as Waris Dirie`s campaign. Got it Bhra?``

OK Zeemax Bhra. I can live with that, but let me play devil`s advocate and ask your permission to work in parallel on banishing this barbaric custom forever if that did not imperil the more important and larger rescue effort.

MannyD:

I take strong exception to your clearly racist remark :

FMG or no FMG, they would end up like that anyways.

Do you think they are lesser creatures than you and me? And it is their destiny to remain like this? And ... Why? What`s the problem? Are they inferior because they were born in sub-saharan Africa? Ethiopia was a proper civilization and a nation state when no such concept existed. The horn of Africa consists of the most beutiful and intelligent people, indeed gifted people, in the entire world. Have you ever met anyone from there? This is just infuriating. Tsk ..... Tsk ....

#331 by mannyd

You are completely wrong in not just a few but all of your assertions. C`mon, scroll back and examine each party`s position in a non-partisan manner.

Gangrene? When did anyone say FMG was to remove gangrinous parts to keep the victim alive? Yaar, all I`m saying is that they can still survive with this barbaric custom if they are alive to get this practised away and done with and banished forever, just as Waris Dirie`s campaign. Got it Bhra?

And the pictures in #328 are from the sub-saharan famines, not of those deformed for begging. Deliberate deforming by parents takes place in the sub-continent. In Africa, nature helps them in this task for free.

#321 by mannyd

Ok. MannyD, you volunteered to be the arbitrator. Now you`re stuck. Kindly read your verdict after examining both sides` position which is clear by now. So that this article/board can die in peace.

No one is here to score any points, least of all me. Let the feminists win if their position can eradicate this practice. My heart bleeds as much if not more over this stuff, but it also bleeds over the babies with gouged out eyes in my backyard.

Rgds

#327 Zeemax Bhai: So it was Waris Dirie`s hogwash, not yours. FMG has no connection to winning beauty contests, does not appeal to aspiring beauty contestents. The picture that you posted is that of an attractive person, but it could have been an `Elephant woman`. I think we agree so far. Thanks for expanding the sound byte.
As you explained, FMG has nothing to do with the victim`s religion also. I agree.
I am taking one more step.
FMG has nothing to do with keeping the victim alive medically. It is not a gangrene setting in the female genitals that prompts FMG. I know a very dear and close person, who lost a right arm, because it was necessary to keep him alive. That does not seem to be the case here.
Your pictures in #328 for comparison have no bearing on FMG, do they? FMG or no FMG, they would end up like that anyways. They look like abducted children, deformed for begging. Please correct me if I am wrong so far.

#326 by Bina_Shah

Bina. Thanks for your very well balanced view. You said:

....Other people on this board might think you are a lost cause, Zeemax, but with all due respect I think you have the intelligence and sensitivity to understand exactly what`s at stake here. I would urge you to reconsider your stance not so that the feminists can score a victory but so that you can come one step closer to understanding what some women in our world have to go through, and perhaps add your voice to those that believe this practice should be eliminated completely from the earth....

Bina, I have more sensitivity than you could perhaps imagine. I come across as blunt and insensitive because I discovered long ago there`s no point in ooh`ing and aah`ing over all the evil heaped upon in the world on innocent victims ... you just need to get on with doing something about it. I take a wider view. That`s all.

This does not begin or end with FGM, it is pervasive upon all kinds of disadvantaged mankind. Misery is not exclusive or dished out in larger proportion upon females as feminists make it out to be. Indeed, males are much more prone to things like murder, dismemberment, disembowelment etc. in the same societies under reference here.

Social ills are not descended from God. These are products of ignorance. Indeed, the enlightened societies of now had similar or worse practices like burning alive of witches etc. These disappeared only with prosperity and enlightenment.

Now, I agree FMG is barbaric, cruel, evil, all of that, and should be done away with. where my beef lies with the feminists is on `HOW?`

Feminists say it should be banned through legislation. I say that won`t work because the underlying reasons will remain un-addressed. Feminists say I`m stupid. I say I`m not. I say do it as China did. Leave human rights aside and just uplift and educate the poor. Social improvement will follow and archaic customs/practices will automatically disappear. Centuries-old customs cannot be removed through protests nor with legislation without addressing the human condition.

Anecdote from Bangkok:

A European acquaintance met me in Bangkok for business, and later invited me to the Bangkok condo he kept for his visits. There was this pretty little teenaged girl at his place barely 15-16 years of age keeping him company. When I was ready to leave, he asked his chauffeur to drop me first and then drop the girl at the `hostel`. I was curious and asked him `did she live in a hostel? He said yes, and because he was leaving the next morning, he had to get her dropped.

I found out on the way, and through later conversations with the acquaintance, that the girl was Laotian, and he had bought her outright from her parents when she was 13 for $ 3,000, and there were many lodgings in Bangkok dedicated for such business where they kept the bought girls for a fee, chaperoned them wherever they went, if allowed to go out depending on instructions of the `master`, and kept ship-shape for his next visit.

The girl was a `slave`.

Rgds

Posted on DM’s board too….
Insert Africa for India where necessary.

While we talk about removing the skin, let us also talk about another group of babies that have no choice at all. Their skin is not removed. Their skulls are crushed and they are killed in cold bold.

There were reports that Dutch Doctor have been helping with aborting fetuses when test proved Down syndrome in unborn babies since 1997.

Now, if Holland was not enough, it is a well known fact that over 80% women go for abortion in the US too when they find physical deficiencies or the Down syndrome in their unborn kids.

“It has become socially acceptable to abort any baby who disappoints the expectations of the baby`s parents for any reason, as the increasingly common practice of sex-selection abortion indicates.”

I can deride Indians/africans for this atrocity but India/africa is still an extremely poor country and there may be compelling social issues that force certain sections of the population to practice female infanticide/FMG but what are we going to say when we encounter this appalling behavior in the most advanced, educated, and socially conscious country where the fking Supreme court has legalized baby killing regardless of the gender.

Yes! I am talking about the US; The Mecca of abortions, the world capital of Killing unborn babies. In India female infanticide maybe an old tradition because of poor social and economic conditions, in the US babies are killed because some men or women got carried away just a few days, night, weeks, or even months ago. In this country, abortions are performed any fking time. First trimester? No problem. Second Trimester? No problem. Third trimester? No problem at all.

They are killing babies just days before they are due in this country and we have assholes calling that a choice issue. Who made the choice of having unprotected sex? It was not the unborn. A man and a woman chose to have some fun and who pays the price? The poor unborn whose right of choice has been usurped by a fking Supreme Court decision which does not recognize a healthy and kicking baby in a womb as human until he/she is born.

Roughly, one thousand abortions are performed in the US daily. Yes, DAILY! Not yearly and not monthly and not weekly. They kill a thousand babies every day!

One can calculate how many babies have been killed in the most advanced country in the world since that fateful decision. That number is in Millions. Yes Millions of babies!

Yes, in certain cases abortion is fine and should be legal but nobody should have unfettered access to abortion in a civil society. Show the reasons why you can’t have a baby and then let the courts make a decision.

Now see the previous post in comparison with this:


And this:

#321 by mannyd

....Hogwash Zeemax Pai. How do you know the Somali girl had a dead clit? No bragging now. If dead clits lead to winning beauty contests, why does not every aspiring beauty do it?....

How do I know? Because Waris Dirie says so on her website. The second part of your question MannyD Bhra... I guess is just mis-directed sarcasm.

But this just reinforces my statement, now rephrased (because people are havings lots of difficulty getting the `point`) as ...:

An alive FMG victim is better than a non-FMGd dead one till the time she can be both alive AND nonFMGd. So keep her alive first.

I read the post last night where Zeemax clarifies his stance: ``A woman alive is better than a dead c***``. It really disturbed and upset me...

Doesn`t Mr. Zeemax understand that when this procedure is enacted on little girls, they often die of it? Those that are left alive have a terrible life, and any act of sexual intercourse or chlidbirth can lead to infection, hemmorhage, and death. It is probably worse than a rape, because you can heal from a rape but you can never heal from this kind of mutiliation. In fact, in my opinion, performing this procedure on a small child or young girl is akin to killing her... slowly.

The discussion caused me to do a little bit of research on the issue. Apparently FGM started in Egypt, in the times of the Pharoahs and spread in popularity all over the Northern African region. People in most cultures have done it: Christians, Muslims, Jews, Coptics, pagans. FGM you might think is strictly an African procedure but the Victorians used to do it to women in order to stop them from masturbating.

So, Zeemax`s assertion that ``a woman alive is better than a dead c***`` just makes no sense to me... the issue is not ``As long as African women survive, this practice is minor in relevance``. Not at all. It`s about cruelty to girls. A terrible cruelty that is completely unnecessary, but more than that, has horrible and deadly consequences for its victims.

Other people on this board might think you are a lost cause, Zeemax, but with all due respect I think you have the intelligence and sensitivity to understand exactly what`s at stake here. I would urge you to reconsider your stance not so that the feminists can score a victory but so that you can come one step closer to understanding what some women in our world have to go through, and perhaps add your voice to those that believe this practice should be eliminated completely from the earth.

Re: # 301

[First of all, I regret to inform you that by using profanity, vulgarity, and crude references, you managed to trivialize this very important issue that Jawahara has so capably articulated.]- salim chauhan.

This person has the cheek to blame others of profanity, vulgarity and crude references when he himself uses profane language for the wife of prophet mohammad and then counters that he as a shia has the license to insult ayesha bint abu bakr, the prophet’s wife.


``#37 A Hero of subcontinental Muslims, Sultan Mahmood of Ghazni
on April 6, 2006 3:37pm PT
By the way, is it true that Ayesha Baker took on a Hindu lover because no Muslim would dare touch her?``


#182 by Salim_Chauhan on April 8, 2006 4:47pm PT
#174, Listen, you idiot, as Shias, we have a license to question her motives against Hazrat Imam Ali. Also, in Islam there is no official post for Mrs. Prophet - except for the first and real one of his wives - Hazrat Khadija. :)