A Thousand Cuts

Uh I had heard about this a few times before. Just never realized that it still existed. There was a book out a few years back.. I cannot remember the name of it, however, it was biography of an Arabic princess in which she witness this happening to young 7 yr old in Eygpt.. I am baffled by the fact that people still act so ignorant.. Well, the people that are committing these horrid crimes are aware that it is not right, morally and/or politically, therefore it is done absolute secrecy.. So asking for proof from you is simply..stupid.

Re: # 321

Manny,

Good one, lol.....

Jawahara ji: I hurried thru your article and the interacts. I was aware of the problem, because I read of an asylum case of a Sudanese mother and daughter in the USA. Thank you for not making it a feminist issue.
It does sound racist, but there are expanding areas of Africa full of savagery; Idi amin keeping body parts in refrigerator, AIDS spreading like wildfire because supposedly one cure is to have sex with virgins, famines on the horizon because white farmers have been made to flee from rape and murder, warlords interfering with outside humaintarian help.
I was very glad that nobody from the subcontinent had a personal experience to write about.

Some of these people have been braught into the USA recently. President Bush airlifted 15000 of illeterate Africans from the jungle into furnished apartments. So your observation `FGM is actually on the rise, as those who practice it, bring it with them as they make their Diasporic journeys to other lands.` probably means there is more awareness and reporting than before. It is not that the practise is attracting new followers.

Welcome out of the slammer, both of you. What a disappointment though for the ban in the first place?

#319: I volunteer Samina Ji. I can withstand the cruelty of untangling Zeemax`s reasons.

#320: Hogwash Zeemax Pai. How do you know the Somali girl had a dead clit? No bragging now.
If dead clits lead to winning beauty contests, why does not every aspiring beauty do it?

Ok never mind. My position remains:

A woman alive is better than a dead clit.

Look at that Somali model girl who was judged the most beutiful girl in the world. Was she better dead?

Later ...

Re: # 318

Not interested. I wouldn`t subject an intelligent person to the task of having to untangle the snarl of reasoning you see fit to post on this board. That`s just cruel.

#317 by Saminasha

What about the arbitrator offer?

Re: # 313

I really have nothing else to discuss with you. The burden of proving your logic, analogies, similies, evidence rests with you.

I suggest since you`ve wasted my time with your specious line of argument that you come up with something legitimate hella fast.

I propose SR. He is fair. He didn`t circumcise his own son. Proof enough?

#313 by Saminasha

I think we need an arbitrator here. Do you have anyone in mind? I`ll accept the Arbitrator`s decision, whatever it is. Otherwise we`ll get nowhere with this.

Re: # 306

Outlawing violent policies against women never work?

Extraordinary.

zeemax Sahib,

re: 302

A. I wrote: 2) Deny the violence of FMG:

Zeemax: ``I never denied it. There are so many types involved here i.e. clitorodotomy, excision, clitorodectomy and complete infibulation. I was all along referring to the most widespread practice i.e. clitorodotomy which is analogous to male circumcision and not to be confused with FMG because it is not mutilation. However ALL interactors except Urstruly treated it as the same thing....``

First of all, while the wonderful world of patriarchy seen fit to devise a variety of ways to mutilate/alter/surgical remove various parts of female genitalia, the majority of these surgical crimes involve the clitoris. Amnesty International:

``...The vast majority (85%) of genital mutilations performed [in Africa] consist of clitoridectomy or excision. ...``. Therefore your distinctions serve little more than a smokescreen to what fgm is about: the removal of female sexual pleasure.

I wrote: 4)...pleasure ARE a human right.:
T

zeemax writes: ``... threshold of what a human right is and what is not changes with changes in the human condition. Bodily pleasure is a human right for Somalis right now just as owning a cell- phone is a human right for me; because I got everything else figured out. For most of sub-saharan Africans, their first human right not being preserved by anyone is basic-survival. Of-course mutilation is wrong, no one said it isn`t, but first things first...``

Your equation of owning a cell phone and a clitoris is truly extraordinary. Can you explain this analogy?

If you possess an intact penis, is that the same thing as my owning a cell phone? What does having ``got everything else figure out``? mean logically wrt a cell phone?

Once again you attempt to claim that African women must choose-and why is your argument limited to African women and not North African or asylumed Anglo American women in the 1950s-between starving to death and their clitori. Can you explain to us the logical reasoning behind these claims? Because, once again, this is bizarre to me and I`m guessing most intelligent people.


I wrote: 5) Claim truly pathological false dilemmas:


zeemax writes: ``...Starvation of sub-saharan africa is not a false-dilemma. If the author has pulled out such vivid images of FMG being carried out on a young child, then images must also be evoked of mothers right in our own backyards maiming and gouging out the eyes of their own babies in order for them to become a begging asset, a bread-winner, which they otherwise would never be if allowed to grow up like everyone else. Just see the implications of this on society as a whole...``

Again, specious logic. What is being attempted here is a wholesale generalization of this practice in Africa and the socio-economic contexts in which the practice takes place. Nawal el Saadaawi`s family was not indigent, nor on the brink of starvation, and yet both she and her sister`s genitals were mutilated. I have not read the conflation of both issues in any reading on FGM, so the introduction of starvation into this discussion serves only in some areas, not all.

If you have chosen the peculiar argument that only one issue can be addressed at a time, I don`t have an answer to the bizarreness of this claim.

I wrote: 6) SHAME them by referring to masturbation:

zeemax writes: ``...Yes. Accepted with apologies. It wasn`t entirely unprovoked, however...``

Sahib, I`m not amused by your creepy winking. The slimeball factor of your comments, your ``conquests``, your insistence on questioning the right to body integrity is really your problem-one in which you continued to try to involve several interactors. It was quite embarrassing to see your descent and then the male apologists for it.

Re:


``....Once in the pre-modern times in the animal market of Shenzhen, I saw a number of beutiful little deer for sale crawling around on their fore-legs because their hind legs had been snapped like twigs. When asked why through a translator, the vendor replied that otherwise they would run away. When I persisted with ``why doesn`t he tie them down with rope?`` His simple answer was he didn`t have any rope.

Before I start teaching that vendor about `cruelty to animals`, I need to first get moral myself and get him the means to buy that rope without sacrificing his meal. In case of Somalia, this rope is the primary moral obligation for `means of their basic survival`. This is not the same as aid; it is sustainable `means`. ...``


If you find it to difficult and inconvenient to compare women with other human beings, again, thats your problem in trying to excuse the inexcusable. Girls and women are not ``deer``, ``whores``, ``flowers`` , ``clits``, ``territory`` or whatever similiac evasion you`d like to construct them as. They are human beings whose bodies are being carved up so that the insecure fathers, brothers, cousins, nephews, sons and husbands of their famillies can regulate them from what they look like to every last sensation they feel.

Deal with it.

Re: # 311

exactly Bina. So nice to see a sista onboard.

#309 by Salim_Chauhan

I`m only here to learn. And I have indeed learnt a lot from other interactors. Like I have learnt something from your post. Agreed word by word.

Thanks.

Zeemax,
You are a good sport for not blaming the editor for her obvious even-handedness. I have noticed your interactions on several boards. You, my friend, like my arrow-festooned posterior, have a tendency to get very involved in your debate and do engage in rebuttals that get judged equally with the initial provocation of your opponents. At least, now we have a much fairer administration on Chowk that looks at BOTH the aggression and the response. With great difficulty, my friend, I have learned that it is better to take the high road. Never respond to vulgarity with more of your own - then you are just like them. Instead, maintain your cool and use logic, polite words, and determined composure to defeat and expose those profane and vulgar people. Please take my advice, because I am much better for it myself. Good luck and happy interacting.