A Thousand Cuts

#370 by Saminasha Re: # 360

you can`t be serious......

I`m never non-serious. But I`m not sure to which non-serious comment you are referring, Samina Ji.

#369 by ballukhan on April 12, 2006 5:43am PT

Hey Jehadi kid.........How about a Fatwa against FGM???

I would be glad to oblige but I am not a Maulvi.

Let`s ask her instead.



Re statues in Egypt, a Fatwa is never binding. It only clarifies the pure relgious stance, whether practical or impractical, just as the matter of financial Interest which is considered not un-islamic by the same Muftis. It is upto Muslims to accept it or reject it. So even if a Fatwa against FGM is delivered, it would NOT be incumbent upon anyone. Got it Einstein ???

Hey Jehadi kid.........How about a Fatwa against FGM???


``Fatwa against statues triggers uproar in Egypt
(AFP)

2006/04/05


CAIRO -A fatwa issued by Egypt’s top religious authority, which forbids the display of statues has art-lovers fearing it, could be used by Islamic extremists as an excuse to destroy Egypt’s historical heritage.

Egypt’s Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa, the country’s top Islamic jurist, issued the religious edict which declared as un-Islamic the exhibition of statues in homes, basing the decision on texts in the hadith (sayings of the prophet).

Intellectuals and artists argue that the decree represents a setback for art -- a mainstay of the multi-billion-dollar tourist industry -- and would deal a blow to the country’s fledgling sculpture business.

...............................

Wasel slapped a fatwa on watching solar eclipses and another on bullfights, but refused to support rights activists in their campaign to outlaw female genital mutilation``

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#361 and other nonsense by ballukhan

I never disputed existence of the patriarchal society. It exists. Period. But the `patriarchal soceity` does not ordain physical alteration of women. Subjugation, yes. But not physical alteration. Never did. These are just superstitions and tribal culture.

Get a life!

Re: # 364

Just because an ordain is not explicit thorough policy/law doesn`t mean it`s not implicit. The very LACK of legal policy that protects women from these manifestations operates much more effectively.

Hi Jihadi Kid. How about reading this:

God`s Phallus and Other Problems for Men and Monotheism (1994):

Howard Eilberg-Schwartz

http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/letters.html

Journalists` most common questions - and Irshad`s answers - about the ``Manifesto of 12``

* Why shouldn’t Muslims - or any other group - be protected from offence?

Irshad replies: Civilizational progress happens when individuals transgress, even blaspheme. Galileo offended the Church. So did Darwin. Spinoza royally offended many rabbis. The concept of universal human rights offends most religions. Without offence, there is only silence -- and therefore groupthink.

* How did the manifesto come into being for you?

....................

``-- Men have nothing to do with it.

-- Islam or any other religion has nothing to do with it. ``


You have not studied religious books properly kid.......the male god has always rewarded the warring males with slaves and women apart from other bounties of nature.............the male god has always been the great archetypical patriach...........You need to read something apart from the usual tafsirs that you have been picking from your roadside bookstall.............you should read feminist critique of the male god by authors like Mary Daly, Rosemary Radford Ruether, Naomi Goldenberg, Daphne Hampson, Judith Plaskow, Julia Kristeva, and Luce Irigaray.....you can also read `The Creation of the Patriarchy` by Gerda Lerner before you actually start believing in the caricatures that you try to sell to others on this board.............

#359 by ballukhan

Nincompoop ... these health reasons are the `jahalat` reasons cited by `women` reproduced from Amnesty`s findings. Not mine.

There are absolutely no health issues involved in it. These amongst others (read my post again) are the concerns of the victim`s `moms`, not `dads`. They think women`s genitals are ugly, too many folds and crevices and loose flesh hanging around. So some think it actually beutifies their daughters by removing it altogether (infibulation) or by removing or altering the clitoris because they think it is evil (superstitions). Some african societies still poke all kinds of stuff through their cheeks and mouth because they think it `beutifies` them. Their idea of `beauty` is different.

These are the same kind of female superstitions which prompt moms, in this day and age, to take their hysterical daughters to Pirs who beat them senseless to `exorcise the devil` out of them. Many girls die or scarred for life because of this exorcism. Why isn`t there an NGO to educate those women in our very own societies that hysteria is a natural phenomenon and they don`t need to do this?

--FGM is Jahalat ... no more no less.

-- Men have nothing to do with it.

-- Islam or any other religion has nothing to do with it.

-- Women have an absolute right over their own bodies. (But then they must also support abortions of female foetuses by mothers if that`s their choice.)

In short, it is not as easy as it seems. Saminasha has a very powerful point in saying ``men whose power is so absolute, they no longer have to enforce their systems themselves because WE enforce them. They no longer even have to concern themselves with enforcing it.`` I agree. That`s the patriarchal society in essence. But that`s how things evolved and no use attacking men over this state of affairs. It was men after all who fought endless wars throughout centuries for preservation of societies, and died in most horrific manners so that their women and children could be safe. An egalitarian society can resolve all that injustice and that is what we must fight for. Both men AND women, TOGETHER.

No Rgds to you.

Re: # 360

you can`t be serious......

Now another ignoramus mehnazhyder is dragging Islam into it. What does Wahabiisim or any other sect got to do with it? This is crazy. Please quote some references before alleging things and heaping abuse upon anyone.

She is also basing the entire argument on the extreme practice of complete infibulation which is documented as 15% even in Africa. Her stance appears more of a penis-depravity complex rather than anything else. Reminds of a joke when a little girl asked her mother why didn`t she have a penis instead of just `this`? Her mother replied don`t worry honey, you`ll have plenty of those as long as you have `this`.

Might I add, that this morbid mutilation of a woman`s vulva is analagous in a man to removing several inches of a the penis including the coveted head, and leaving essentially the root with the urethra intact. The feature of infibulation can be reproduced in a male by sewing the scrotal ends together on either side of the raphe.

Yeah, try that for size.....

Obviously this is just a sick form of control.

Its amazing that a vulva can strike so much fear in the hearts of men.

FGM is a heinous crime and the most abhorrant sanctioned act against women.

Sadly, this barbaric practice was introduced into Islam, several years after the advent of Islam, by the popular Wahabbi movement. According to Wahabism, a woman is more pure if she is circumcised, and it is better for her, but not required. Of course, such torturous subjugation of women not only served the Wahabbi purpose, it also allowed its ideology to spread in nations like those within Africa, because their population is very amenable to the concept.

It is disheartening to see this practice not only rampant in Africa, but widespread in Indonesia and Malaysia due to spread of Wahabbi ideology.

And as painful as the pain of a thousand cuts, is the pain caused by knowing that this barbarism is attributed to The Prophet.