A Thousand Cuts

Jawahara, it is good to see that someone has spoken against such a practice. In your article, you have referred to an ``obscure hadith``. Will you please mention that hadith and tell us how is it related to such a circumcision? What does it say? Who has quoted it (in the Islamic tradition of quoting)? Which of the six authentic and valid books on hadith mention this hadith?

Your answer might lead many to think twice about it before practising it.

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#2 ``The Hadiths in question allows only the Circumcission of prepuce and forbids in no uncertain terms the circumcision or mutilation of clitoris.``

what is the reasoning behind this hadith?

i was under an impression that this was not an issue for south asian muslims anyways...this practice is non-existant in the indian subcontinental pupulation.

Jawahara,
Thank you for bringing up this important subject. Just reading your article was painful and to consider that this happens to real girls, even infants, is even worse - a horrible, cruel, and inexcusable crime.
I realize that this practice is common among non-Muslims and Muslims in east African, north African, and Arabian peninsula societies. I fail to understand why we can`t use medical knowledge to root out this evil practice? Are we going to let the sayings of Confucius or the Hadiths guide us in the 21st century - even when they are totally wrong and dubious in authenticity?

perhaps for people like Urstruly, everything has to have an Islamic hadith reason....

but for the average person, God has given us the common sense to know right from wrong...

great article Jawahara, and good point about the hypocritical Ummah protesting stupid cartoons over this barbaric practice

Re: # 2

Was it absolutely necessary to post a diagram of a female vagina? Not all of us are ignorant of human anatomy.

Re: # 6

maybe there`s a hadith that tells Urstruly that it`s ok to post diagrams of the female anatomy to a literate audience

Re: # 7

well...obviously for urstruly, the hadith makes it possible for him to discuss the female body, particularly the vagina, in such an authorative manner...anyone up for photos of male circumcisions and why they are mandated?

Jawahara,

Glad you caught up with this human rights violation. May I suggest you read Nawal el Saadaawi`s essays on her work in the field, as a doctor treating young girls and women in the rural villages of Egypt. This particular essays are about fifteen years old and are unfortunately not as widely read as her novels. el Saadaawi`s essay`s also draw upon her sister`s and her own trauma of being the victims of female genital mutilation as children. The voices of survivors are more important to me than our own attempts at representing their experiences.

Re: # 3 Jang

The reasoning is elaborated in my post#2 in quite a detail. Briefly, again, the circumcision of prepuce is done to prevent infection and circumcision of clitoris is done to crush the female sexual desire.

The hadith elaborates this point and goes something like this.

Holy Prophet (pbuh) was passing through a street when he saw a woman performing circumcision on her infant girl. Holy Prophet (pbuh) stopped by and inquired that woman whether she was circumcising prepuce or clitoris. Then before that woman answered he told woman that it was fine if she circumcised prepuce and then urged her strongly not to mutilate clitoris elaborating that it will be good for her (infant) and her husband. Another Hadith elboartes this by saying that Holy Prophet said to that woman that leaving clitoris alone would brighten and freshen her daughters face and it will be good for her and for her husband.

Scout

I did not bring the issue of hadith related to this practice in this discussion but Jawahara did. I only explained the context of this hadith.


Saminasha

There is no taboo in Islam. Everything is open for discussion. The only restriction is to keep the discussion modest and observe the principles of mutual respect and norms of decency.

Re: # 10

who wrote this hadith that you are quoting, and when was it written, how accurate is it?

Re: # 11

I do not know the chronolgy of this hadith. I have seen this hadith at least in Bokhari which is considered one the six most authentic books on hadith. I do not know the juristic ruling of the five jurists (Malik, Hanifa, Shaafii, hanbali, and Jafari) on this issue. However, the North and subsaharan Africa overwhelmingly follows the Shaafii school of jurisprudence, whereas SA, Emirates, Iraq, Yemen etc. overwhelmingly follow Maliki and Hanbali jurisprudence. This practice of circumcision is practiced in those two areas mostly. On the other hand this practice is non-existent in the areas where Hanafi school of thought is predominant like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. I assume that reason for not having this practice is a combination of lack of historical practices, weather and geography and not jusritic ruling.

Re: # 12

would you know any reason why the tableeghi types don`t travel to the areas where female genital mutilation occurs and preach to them the correct interpretation of the hadith?

#6, {``Was it absolutely necessary to post a diagram of a female vagina? Not all of us are ignorant of human anatomy. ``}

Once again you are demonstrating your Victorian upbringing. Mr. Urstruly was perfectly appropriate in depicting the diagram. There was nothing wrong in his post. I find your insinuation of any impropriety in his extremely useful post to be tasteless, baseless, wrong, assinine, and quite improper. Whenever I think that you have hit bottom, you manage to create a deeper hole for yourself. It`s not as if Mr. Urstruly used your picture for his illustration.

#10, Mr. Urstruly,
Thank you for enlightening us first with the problem in detail and then by clarifying the hadith that was referenced by the author. Obviously, after reading your explanation, it is clear that the Holy Prophet (PBUH) was in favor of not disturbing the clitoris, but for the hygenic operation on the prepuce. Now, if the prepuce can be kept clean without recourse to circumcision, we should educate the people about the correct procedure. In any case, I feel good that there is no reason or justification to mess with the clitoris. I hope that this stimulating discussion can be resolved to the mutual satisfaction of all concerned. Thanks.

Re: # 13

I think you are under some kind of misconception. Most, probably 70% or more, tableeghy missionaries go to Africa every year. Late Allama Shah Ahmad Noorani Sahib was the deriving force behind the spread of Islam and re-training of African Muslims and also to curb the spread of Quadianism in the African continent. His mission, which his father started, continues in his familly. The issue of cultural practices (such as this) is a complicated one and it takes years of effort to eradicate cultural practices. Same thing goes for Muslims in India and Pakistan where we practice every hindu ritual of death, birth, and marriage etc. accept that we have reaplecd their ashloks and mantras with our darud and tasbeeh. But times are achanging. It has taken a shape of cultural movement in pakistan and elesewhere to revert back to the ``orginal & basic Islam`` and make distinction between cultural practices and religion, which many wrongly refer to as the spread of Wahabism.