A Thousand Cuts

Re: # 64

A man in your `horrible` West will go to jail for throwing acid on his wife`s face. He will go to jail for killing his pregnant wife and unborn baby. He will be accountable for his actions.

In your precious Pakistan, the Hudood Ordinance is yet to be repealed. In your precious Pakistan, a man who throws acid on his wife`s face is out on bail and not prosecuted (Bilal Khar) There are countless other lawless injustices against women in your precious Islamic countries.

If you ever have a daughter, will you send her to Pakistan or would you rather she live protected by law in the US?

Answer this question.

Re: # 64

urstruly,

.... please translate the second paragraph that set up the motherhood lecture ...... do it verbatim, please ...... without spin and editorial ....

....... it blows my mind how some ``sisters`` have bought into their tormentors` nonsense - i think it is called the medina-harem syndrome .....

hamidm

``positive motherhood spin ``

I don`t understand why should I be abusive and confrontational towards my fellow interlocutors??

Re: # 64

despite having wonderful mothers, some men are psychological sociopaths, and it`s the responsibility of both GOOD sons and GOOD daughters to hold these men accountable.
from your logic, the mother of a sociopath should be jailed, not the sociopath himself.

Abuse against any human being is against the law in most countries and should be punished. What some people do not realize is that women are equally responsible for behaving legally. Recently, wasn`t there a case of a woman killing her husband in TN? And he was a man of the cloth of all things!

Jawahara,

I forgot to put in my two bits on the article itself in my earlier interact, so here it is.

This write-up obviously deals with a rather important topic even though in terms of statistics – its prevalence in South Asia and other places frequented by desis is perhaps minimal. The effort to bring attention to this issue is to be commended. Perhaps equally important is the focus on the tendency of some people to look away from the problem – or to try to trivialize it by using a variety of means (I notice that pattern even on this board – and I am not talking of just one person).

I do think you could have done more things with this material, though.

For example, perhaps this article could have been written as a full-fledged short story from the little girl’s point of view (the way it appears to start out) and not changed itself into an article in mid-stream. The first few paragraphs – which appear to have the maximum impact on readers could have been expanded to delve into the little girl’s thinking a bit deeper as she comes to deal with the enormity of what has been done to her – physically and emotionally! This stuff has the potential of dynamite.

It would have perhaps been more effective in that form – rather than petering down into simple admonishing statements – there are countless articles already out there with such messages.

Sincerely,
BJ Kumar

I remember reading an article some years ago about Waris Dirie. She was mutilated as a child when she was five or so. There were some descriptions about the pain that she suffered long after the event. .
She speaks out against the practice of FGM at many forums. I think at one time even Readers Digest had carried an article on this. Normally RD is so squeaky clean.
I had thought that this practice was restricted to the sub saharan Africa though and that the practice had died out elsewhere a long time ago.

#71, swarrier {`` had thought that this practice was restricted to the sub saharan Africa though and that the practice had died out elsewhere a long time ago.``}

Swarrier,
I thought the same thing, until I read about this horror happening in Egypt, Sudan, and even on the Arabian peninsula. While not specifically Muslim, this custom seems to be quite prevalent among African Muslims. Can someone tell us whether Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Palestine, and Iraq also suffer from this cruel implementation of ``morality?``

Scout, basically Urstruly is saying that … if men turn out to be wife-beaters, it is the fault of their mothers.

Furthermore, law and education are the key to addressing these issues … but the ummah has time for neither, since they are occupied with Quadianni fitna in Africa. Women may have to wait another thousand or so years. And during this time if men continue to beat women ... I guess that`s too bad. However, it is only a cultural issue ... so no need to get upset.

Here’s what I once write on lighter (darker?) side of a Muslim. Here it is again. Note #9 and #8 … in light of Urstruly’s posts, esp. post 16.

[Urstruly, after a century of persecuting Ahamdis in Indian Subcontinent … all you have is a passport form to show for your efforts. I hope you do better in Africa …]

+++++++++

LIGHTER (DARKER?) SIDE OF A MUSLIM ...

1) Openly condemns 9/11, but quietly believes they were much justified

2) Rejoices over the molestation cases in catholic churches … argues that this gives a moral victory to Islam over Christianity

3) Thinks beating kids for missing tahajjud is an acceptable Islamic practice. Forced starvation may follow for better results.

4) Has read the entire Quran 17 times … in a language he does not understand

5) Kill an apostate … go straight to heaven. Kill an Ahmadi … Muhammad himself will greet you at the pearly gates

6) Character assassination of Jinnah on grounds of unIslamic behavior has not entirely lost its appeal

7) Medical facts and laws of physics: knows when to quote these … and knows when to avoid these … when preaching Islam to infidels

8) Thinks if it weren’t for that tramp, we’d all be living in paradise. This is why Allah has cursed women with the pain of childbirth.

9) Female circumcision … not an issue. Islam accepts cultural differences

10) Has at least once searched on google using keyword “Jewish conspiracies” when debating the Palestine issue via e-mail with a Jew in Hungary (that he has never met).

11) Would not hesitate to carry a lotta in the main cabin when boarding the PIA flight from JFK

12) At the airline counter … insists that lotta does not count as a carry-on item

13) During the flight wants to know which way is kaaba … for extra points in salaat

14) Smells bad, looks untidy … but insists his personal hygiene is in line with sunnah ... and therefore adequate (further comments will land your ass in the slammer on blasphemy charges)

15) Insists Hinduism is a fairy-tale religion … while earnestly preaching that Moses actually parted the ocean

and finally …

16) Cannot shake off this one thought … 70 virgins … all at once. Has already picked out what they would look like (if you know what I mean …)

#58 by Salim_Chauhan on April 4, 2006 8:36am PT
salim sahab i agree with you urstruly post shouldn`t have been deleted, i am sure urstruly purpose was purely educational.

#74, Aslam 644 {``salim sahab i agree with you urstruly post shouldn`t have been deleted, i am sure urstruly purpose was purely educational.``}

Aslam Bhai,
Thank you. I thought that I was the only one disappointed by the prudish deletion of a graphic illustrating the elements of the problem. Whatever one can call Mr. Urstruly, he is definitely NOT obscene, profane, or vulgar. The attempt to villify Mr. Urstruly and question his proactive manner of educating fellow Chowkies is nothing less than the Tally Banization of Chowk.

salim/ Aslam

I think Chowk editorial staff has acted inappropriately to remove my post#2 altogether. They however had acted appropriately when they put the diagram under a filter. In the interest of knowledge and in the ineterst of women issues as serious as FGM, they should have kept that arrangement. I guess knowledge and enlightenment scares some people more than anything, since it is an anathema to their respective agendas.

Yes, Waris Dirie, a former fashion model, is probably one of the most outspoken and high-profile activisits against FGM.

As someone else also said, there was the perception that this was mostly a sub-Saharan African custom. Of course, there are some who use this to dismiss FGM, as if Sub-Saharan little girls don`t deserve the protection as much as some others. It is clear that FGM is not just confined to Africa. And it is also clear that as waves of immigrants move into Europe and even the US, they are bringing FGM with them. There is a whole underground system whereby parents (mostly mothers) find women to perform FGM to their daughters. They operate stealthily, under the radar to avoid detection.

There is some discussion of asylum being granted to girls and young women on the grounds of the danger of FGM being performed in their home countries. Most countries still do not count this as a human rights abuse and there is no actual law in place yet. However, conducting FGM on a child/girl who is an American citizen, for example, would be illegal because it would probably be covered under assault or some other legal category.

urstruly,

...... you still haven`t answered my question about why al-lah and his prophet were unaware of better and more humane methods of preventing infections ....... also you haven`t yet translated paragraph two of your lecture (verbatim) .....

......waiting for your reply ....

damn, i missed the Urstruly vs Scout/Hamidm fight. :-(

on #78: Allah didnt prescribe female circumcisions, nor did the prophet. The basic purpose is to keep women from enjoying sex and thus keep them in the subordinate position of being sex objects rather than participants. This is the opposite of the spirit of Islam as I understand it.

Re: # 77
Jawahara
I posted the bit about Waris Dirie and my assumption that it was a sub-Saharan custom. I was not aware that this custom would be propagated by people when they emigrated from their homelands. When one sees other customs through the eyes of ones own social mores it is difficult to imagine that a parent would be complicit in aiding such a heinous practice.

Granting asylum to the victims will not help much. There will be people who will use that to an advantage. The only way to stop this is by a grass roots movement in the countries where it is still being practised. As I remember from the article Waris Dirie was lucky enough to escape when she was going to be married off at age 12 to a 60 year old man, and is now in a position to speak out against this practice.

Africa unfortunately being in nobody`s backyard is cruelly neglected. Besides with AIDS, genocide , etc FGM takes a back seat. Now if the practice of FGM by immigrants in Western countries would come to light and be given more coverage we might see a bigger movement for stamping out this custom.