Kibbutz Criminals

Farzana: Your article is too diffuse but the last sentence is crisp and so I respond to it.

``There is a lesson in this for the Muslims to acquire the two ‘P’s: public relations and a good dose of persecution. ``

Everywhere in the world`s Muslim Countries, they are the persecutors, de jure as well as de facto. So, unless the Muslims learn to give respect to others they can not get it back in return.

And, yes. No amount of public relations will elevate Muslims to the tolerance level of Hindus and Jews.

Sorry to see that some indians are also prone to the disease of israel/jew obsession. I had thought this was a mental disease peculiar to the arab world. The main symptom of this malady is to believe that all problems in the world have to do with jews or israel.

But then it spread to pakistan (no connection to israel/palestine!) and now apparently to some indians as well.

Too bad.....

Re: # 1

Tolerance of Hindus : http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/india/

Tolerance of Jews : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4779442.stm

Btw, I wonder what intolerance would look like?

More abuse - this time its the Islamists :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4831184.stm



Should nt religious brainwashing be itself regarded as mental torture for children?

Re: # 3 parthaab

You want to what intolerance looks like? Go to saudi arabia and show them a bible[or gita]... you will know....

sopranos shows a jewish mob-boss, there was a show on network TV with a Jewish racketeer from Atlanta as the main ruthless character.

muslims will do very well in PR if they dominate professions..no PR needed.

May be Farzana wants to be in Mukhran Mai shoes for a few days to see how bad the Jews are.

Re: # 3: I will let the link on Jews be taken care by Jews. However, I would reply about the Hindus.

First of all, I do not state that Hindus are ideal. When there is frenzy, e.g., India`s vivisection, or there is war, cruelty surfaces and dominates. Under the conditions of humanity, so far, it is unavoidable. Gujrat ignominy is an example of that. The real test of tolerance is not under emotionally charged conditions. Spousal murders are a case in point.

The crucial test of tolerance is carried out when the laws of a society is made deliberately. It is in the provisions of the Constitution and its effective implementation. How do we recognize and accomodate for the ethnic minorities and those that differ from us ideologically, politically and philsophically shows our fairness and tolerance levels.

Hence, have not the Hindus passed the test as they granted political and social equality to Muslims even though India was divided by Muslims` insistence on separate land for the Muslims? The crucial test lies in the grant of joint electorates that Nehru bestowed on all Indians. If Hindus had insisted on the total deportation of all Muslims from India THEN, they would be at same level as Muslims of Pakistan are today. No, even then they would have been higher since the Muslims killed those Hindus who did not go to India.

More evidence for Hindu tolerance :

http://www.geocities.com/Indianfascism/bombay_riot/shrikrishna_commision_report.htm

More abuse - this time its the Islamists :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4831184.stm



Should nt religious brainwashing be itself regarded as mental torture for children?

parthaab - all:

The very fact that you are able to find these reports shows how the total system which is based on 85 % Hindus is operating to safeguard the rights of minorities.

No such reports would be found in Pakistani press, government or even among the sane Muslims of Pakistan - who no doubt have been completely suppressed by the Mullah Brigade.

AND IT IS NOT BECAUSE THE OPPRESSION - DE JURE AND DEFACTO - DOES NOT EXIST IN PAKISTAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Almost every one, at some point in their history, is persecuted. How you respond to it determines who you really are.

Vietnamese, Jews and many others suffered tremendously. But they did not specialize in killing innocent civilians of the oppressor nation. They fought back regular armies of the opponents and got sympathy from the world as well as their opponents.

On the other hand, Islamic fundos think that it’s a brave act to slit throats of media folks on web. Even their “elites” are blind enough not to see why they are hated by every one. They think it’s just PR deficiency and it can be taken care of by slight reallocation of oil funds.

Re: # 11
Fundamentally, you should ask if you are tolerant or not, from the minorities you claim to `protect` ( that in itself is a subject for debate)


What if the minority muslim community turns around and says : Look, we have only 3 % in government jobs, our education levels are least and we are not preferred even for private jobs?
What if they say that the principle opposition is majoritarian, religion-wise?
Or that in Gujarat, muslims are not even sold houses in `Hindu` zones?
Fundamentally, you should ask if you are tolerant or not, from the minorities you claim to `protect` ( that in itself is a subject for debate)

I wonder there are no comments on this one?

More abuse - this time its the Islamists :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4831184.stm



Should nt religious brainwashing be itself regarded as mental torture for children?

Farzana, pick up todays WSJ and read the opinion piece by Professor Wise. It will become all too clear for you. Equating the lack of arabs or muslims at large to successfully lobby for their interests in the halls of US power is not a fault of Israel or Jews. This is the problem wiht a lot of muslims..it is always someone else`s fault. No knuckleheads, it is your own fault. The world works in systematic fashion. Work within the system. You can either make marble palaces and 7 star hotels shaped like a ship or you can spend the $10B to ensure that the DPW deal goes through. Get with the program.

She wrties that ``Walt and Mearsheimer paper is not as much an enquiry but more an indictment. Th epaper doesn`t tell us why the Israeli lobby should have formed in the first place. The 21 countries of the arab league with ties to 1.2 billion muslims world wide are nowhere present as active political agents. There is no mention of the Arab rejection of the UN`s Parition of Palestine in 1948;no 58-year Arab League boycott of Israel and companies trading with Israel; no arab attacks of 1948, 1967, and 1973; no Arab-Soviet resolution a thte UN defining Zionism as racism; no monetary and strategic support for Arab terrorism against Jews and Israel; and no Hamas dedication to destroying the Jewish state. The autors do not ask why the Arab Aggression an dMuslim ``rage against ISrael`` sould have morphed into a war against the US and the West. ISrael`s existence eliits Arab and Muslim hostility, hence in their view Israel is to blame for Arab and Muslm carnage.``

Who supports Walt and Mearsheimers view...David Duke..you know the one who headed up the KKK and White supremacists in the South. He claims..``validated every major point I have been making since even before the Iraq war.``

Happy journalistc tidings...madame.

FV
What is the article supposed to convey? That Jews have fed people with the idea that they have been persecuted all their lives etc....

Well that is true. Till the Nazis decided to give Europe a conscience, Jews have been persecuted all through the ages by almost every Christian nation.

In fact to a large extent the formation of Israel seems to have been supported by every European nation who wanted to kick Jews out of their country. The US did not support Israel`s formation in the begining. But even in the US, Jews were not allowed into institutions like Havard etc in the earlier stages, at least they had quotas the restricted Jewish students. Jews weren`t allowed to buy houses in some quarters of cities.. Peter Stuyvesant in fact tried to prevent the Jews from settling in the American colonies.

So mostly everybody kicked them around and they had to resort to some way of survival. There is an interesting study published about the Ashkenazi IQ. I have the paper but here is a link to the gist of it.

http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=4032638
Could be hogwash of course but it`s interesting nevertheless.

But the Jews eventually had the money to change perceptions and also a wonderful catalyst, the Nazis. Prior to that they were the despised race.

Don`t think it`s going to work for Muslims though. The general idea is that they are the persecutors. Even with the Crusades, who are portrayed as the bad guys. Poor Salah ud Din, who was better than all those European bounty hunters. Not Pope Urban who started it so that the French knights would be fighting other folks rather than get dissatisfied with paying tithes to the Catholic Church.
And the blokes with the money viz all that Saudi royalty or the Iranian ayatollahs seem to be more interested in narcissim and regression rather than championing progress within their community.

I still find this article rather nebulous.