Apostasy and Islam

#590 by aktaie

Aktaie/sadna whatever, of-course I`m South-Asian. My ancestors got converted from Hindus/Sikhs .. I dunno but definitely I`m not an Ahl-e-Bait Sayyad descended from Muhammad or even Abu Bakr. When did I claim that? Be fair. My ancestors came from Amritsar (Ambar`Sar as we call it).

The identity, however is another thing. I identify with all those people of the 7th Century. Do you know why? Because the South Asian identity never developed. On the contrary, the Muslim invaders gave the lowly brownies an identity which rules. And role models to go with it.

I can see Muhammad`s personality in four people. Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman, and Ali. All four were completely different in personality and governing style from each other, but all four tried to model themselves after Muhammad. That is who Muhammad was. Four of the best specimens of humans who ever existed combined was Muhammad.

Next heap of garbage please?

Re: # 588
Here`s something you said in response to another article:

``Sure. It is time Islam was `reclaimed` and handed over to your types of `burger class` muslim-desi-american/canadian/european wannabes. Your class is the epitome of lost identity.``

Let`s review. You`re obviously of South Asian origin. Your ancestors got converted to Islam a few generations ago and now you identify with Arab concepts like ``Jihad``, ``infidels`` and all the injunctions about beheading them. Hell, you probably claim that you`re a direct descendant of Abu Bakr. And you call other people the ``epitome of lost identity``? You`re practically a textbook on the subject.

And I`m not worried about the jihad in your pants. It`s so small it can`t really harm anyone.

Cheers!

#586 by aktaie

Aah .... Hi Sadna ... nice new nick except I dunno what it means. Does it mean anything?

#586 by aktaie

....So who do you support? You strike me as the typical whiny Pakistani armchair Jihadi for whom no Jihad is good enough except the fantasy Jihad in his pants.....

Hmmm ... vicious attack ... and that too from an economic-migrant-burger desi/american/canadian/european-wannabe-coconut (brown on the outside, white on the inside) semi-person.

Listen honey. You sound like a woman. Don`t talk about Jihad in pants or I`ll talk about Jihad in your panties. Give me arguments if you have any.

And yes, I support Jihad. You have a problem with that ???

#585 by aquaris

No download link. It was only there for a short while but now you gotta buy a CD. Ok I`m uploading it now to www.megaupload.com. Filename is Road_To_Guantanamo.rm It says 10:10 hours remaining.

Re: # 582
``Now I`ll be labelled as a Taliban supporter by all the ignoramuses. But how many of my detractors have ACTUALLY known any Taliban or a Arab-Afghan Jehadi? :-) ``

So who do you support? You strike me as the typical whiny Pakistani armchair Jihadi for whom no Jihad is good enough except the fantasy Jihad in his pants.

Re: # 581


68 MB....... Hmmmm...

Can you give a download Link....!!

or upload it to say www.megaupload.com


thanks..

#558 by tahmed32

.... Ishrat Hussain....unsung Pakistani hero .... Pakistan hardly unique economic growth primarily benefit the rich .... better larger pie to share than a smaller one, even if the slices are initially cut in favor of the ones responsible for making the pie larger....certainly a lot to cheer about the Pakistan economy.... and you can stop being the ``dismal economist`` of gloom and doom .... So, instead of cursing the darkness, .... contributing to an organization like DIL (Developments in Literacy) that are doing a great job ....

-- Ishrat Husain had ambitions of becoming the next Finance Minister, so he compromised his principles for Musharraf`s populist agenda preparing for 2007 (or is it 2008 now?). In the end Musharraf didn`t even get him a senatorship because of Shaukat Aziz`s opposition. The term `elitist` was invented by Ishrat Husain, not me.

-- True Pak is not unique with this kind of useless growth. India is the same. BUT India`s problems are huge compared to Pakistan, AND it has direction. India will ultimately come out of poverty. Not Pakistan. It has no direction. Come to think of it ... do you want to follow Phillipines, or do you want to follow Malaysia? Capital controls are essential for Pakistan. Right now Pakistan is drifting in the Phillippines direction i.e. wasted effort.

-- Once you cut the larger slice of the pie in favour of a few, the rest will always be dogs fighting for the leftover crumbs. Noone gives up the larger slice which keeps getting bigger and bigger and the crumbs keep getting smaller and smaller because the disadvantaged somehow have a higher birth rate. Their only recreation is procreation. It ultimately takes a cultural revolution, gang-of-four style, to correct that with intellectuals and entrepreneurs thrown out of windows.

-- DIL (Developments in Literacy)? Huh? You think NGOs can do it? My friend, building brick & mortar schools is useless unless you can get teachers to teach there. Otherwise you`ll just be adding more ghost schools used as public toilets. Would you be willing to work in Chak # 289 District Sargodha for Rs. 4000?

Cheers.

jill caroll gave a statement that she was under threat and made videos under duress and does not sympatize with her jailers who killed her translator.

#557 by kaalchakra on April 1, 2006 1:39pm PT
....``They never hurt or mistreat women (except for the ones who are spies).``
Zeemax, that is quite a statement. Are you confident that that is true? Only of jihadis operating in Iraq or others as well? ....

That is certainly true about the `Arab` Jehadis, wherever they are. Taliban? Yes to a large degree, except that Taliban are a lot more harsh. They are surprisingly single-minded people. They neither know nor care about anything taught to them outside of their seminaries, and theirs are few punishments outside of death and amputations. But they too are certainly not rapists, looters or pillagers.

Now I`ll be labelled as a Taliban supporter by all the ignoramuses. But how many of my detractors have ACTUALLY known any Taliban or a Arab-Afghan Jehadi? :-)

#575 by tahmed32 / #576 by ballukhan

You guys are getting worked up for no reason. I am just being realistic. Tell me. Is there really any difference between being buried alive, or chopping heads on tv? Or even just being stood in front of a firing squad with your back to a tree? You end up dead in ALL three cases. In the end it doesn`t matter if your head was chopped off or you choked on a mouthfull of earth, or suffocated inside a container in the heat on your way from Mazar Sharif to Kandhar, and then set on fire with kerosene. They all exercise `judgement`.

Watch `Road to Gitmo` if you haven`t already. If you don`t have it I`ll be happy to email it to you but it`s 68 mb.

I am no Zarqawi supporter. I just hope both sides lose. That`s all.

#578 by Salim_Chauhan


[Ram betay,
Now that you have full ``spectrum vision,`` it is amusing how you are able to pronounce judgments about Hitler and the Holy Prophet (PBUH). Either you are one hell of an old dude or you have been knighted by the ``Sword of Truth.``]


Salim my son,

One doesn`t have to have been Hitler`s contemporary to come to the conclusion that he was a monster. One can look at loads of historical documents and other evidence and arrive at conclusions. To suggest otherwise would be idiotic, no?

By that same token, one can pronounce judgements on Pol Pot, Nelson Mandela, M.L. King, Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great and most other people. INCLUDING YOUR MOHAMMAD.

Your use of ``full spectrum vison`` as an attempt at sarcasm doesn`t nullify that. As always, you have run out of any logical statements.

And that`s because you are trying to defend the indefensible.


[I would be very interested in your opinions about Ariel Sharon, Menchem Begin, Sardar Patel, Nehru, Indira, Rajiv, Sanjay, Bhagat Singh, Netaji, and various other people who are no longer here to speak for themselves, but of course you are. ]

This piece of sarcasm is also futile. Just because someone is not there to defend themselves, does not mean that they cannot be judged. You have been judging Modi and RSS leaders for the longest time. He is not going to come to Chowk to defend himself, is he? And would you say that you cannot speak one way or the other about Pol Pot because he is not here to defend himself?

A VERY nonsensical attempt at an argument.



[As I said somewhere else to you - When I meet Indians who are peaceful, objective, and non-violent, I see the benign face of Mahatam Gandhi. When I encounter Indians who are gloating about the prosepct of Muslim blood and drooling at the mouth for violence, destruction, and death against Muslims, I see Modi without his dhoti. ]

Good. Keep up your hallucinations.


And btw, your anger is showing. And anger comes from fear. Are you afraid that I just might be right?

Salim:

I think Ramanujan might have equated Mohammad with Hitler based on this Hadith...


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/041.smt.html#041.6985

Book 041, Number 6985:
Abu Huraira reported Allah`s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.



I don`t know about ``sword of truth``.... This looks like an authentic website propagating Islamic documents..

#569, Ramanujan {``I would like to suggest that there is a THIRD approach - more rational and level-headed. Which is, judge people over the ENTIRE SPECTRUM of their good and bad qualities. While it is true that EVERYONE has SOME good or bad qualities, the right approach would be to pronounce someone like Hitler as evil, and glorify someone who sacrificed his life to save others.
In that kind of judgement, your Muhammad falls WAY on the other side of good. ``}

Ram betay,
Now that you have full ``spectrum vision,`` it is amusing how you are able to pronounce judgments about Hitler and the Holy Prophet (PBUH). Either you are one hell of an old dude or you have been knighted by the ``Sword of Truth.`` I would be very interested in your opinions about Ariel Sharon, Menchem Begin, Sardar Patel, Nehru, Indira, Rajiv, Sanjay, Bhagat Singh, Netaji, and various other people who are no longer here to speak for themselves, but of course you are.

As I said somewhere else to you - When I meet Indians who are peaceful, objective, and non-violent, I see the benign face of Mahatam Gandhi. When I encounter Indians who are gloating about the prosepct of Muslim blood and drooling at the mouth for violence, destruction, and death against Muslims, I see Modi without his dhoti.

Masadi Saheb:

Thank you. I had presumed this and had asked you simply to verify this.

I notice however that you are reluctant to come out clearly and say that YOU, Masadi, are against any earlthly punishment for apostacy and prefer to hide behind a book.

What`s the difference? All someone has to do is to convince you that your interpretation of the book is wrong and that Islam does, indeed require a punishment for apostacy as, appoarently a large number of Muslims seem to believe. But if they are your own convictions, then what the book says does not matter.

Thanks again!

Re: # 574

Zeemax..........

I can see you are on a new cyber Jihad kid on the Chowk spamming with suicidal hate posts ..........Khalid Ahmed tried this and got the guillotine he deserved..............I am sure you would be a enjoying your cyber hell in his company soon............