US–India Deal and Kashmir

Re: # 146 by arjun_m

``vast majority of security forces casualties in Kashmir ARE in fact Kashmiri police..and almost all of them are muslim``

Absolutely right. These are common Kashmiris .....one guy willing to lay down his life for the sake of ``duty``.....his cousin for ``independence``. They have a lot in common and know a lot about each other. That is why the J&K police should take over operations.

#114 by arjun_m,

It is nice to see a longish post from you without a cut and paste.
Your points: (a) Pakistan has been trying to cause trouble all over India; (b) the Indian govt. is doing a reasonable job in fighting terrorism; and (c) India should cause trouble in Balochistan. I, and HP, agree with (a). I disagree with (b) and (c). HP would agree with (c). HP’s posts and hopefully mine are clear as to why we hold such positions. In particular, given my definition of terrorism in an earlier post, I fail to see how creating trouble in Balochistan will stop caste warfare in Bihar.

#120 by pmishra2.

Agreed. And furthermore all I am suggesting is that Indians change their mindset and become a wee bit more innovative. I have tried to highlight this through an example in a post to kaal. One more thing that I believe you will agree with me: Indian nationalists should identify more with Indians (be they Kashmiris or Nagas) than with the Indian map, income of top 10 Indians etc. I mean pick an Indian at random in Chowk, the person will know much more about the Tatas than say the Mizos.

Mohar various posts.

I have no hesitation in agreeing with you…..as you rightly point out, I am stupid.

127 by Pardesi.

We should not try to create trouble in Pakistan. It is not worth the trouble. It is easier to trade with Pakistan, have strong educational links etc. Above all we need to get to know the people of Pakistan better. Not through Ayaz Amir, Bollywood etc.….starting with chowk is perhaps OK :-)

131 by Stuka.

Yes people forget Punjab. Another example which people forget about is Gorkhaland. The intelligence fed to Jyoti Basu by the police is said to be excellent. This with Basu’s political knowledge did the trick

I am encouraged by the seemingly prevalent thinking in Pakistani establishment about expanding Jihad into Mainland India.

Those who are surprised about hearing this for the first time are in a fool`s paradise. Nations constantly try to seek an upper hand over their friends, much less their enemies. The fact that Pakistan had not already tried to do this on a mass scale by now is a surprise.

Anyway this Jihadi expansion should only serve to increase cohesion among Hindus and make them forget about the caste/regional/language biases. And that`s only going to be good for India,

Thanks,

sridhar:

I maybe an idiot/moron, maybe not.. I was just saying that, for Pakistanis, exporting jihad is a cost effective and good technique.. Your explanation does not cut much ice.. Even if that technique does not produce the wide-scale riots and internal disorder, it is of not much cost. they can continue to try.. Indians should use the same technique to get the different sects inside Pakistan to get at each other.. It is better that Pakistan gets Talibanized, then it becomes a global problem, it`s already close to becoming one. Indians can just sit back and relax..

re:#130 by giani_240
Gianiji,
Welcome to chowk.
Never mind who funds this site.
I have been writing (includes a lot of gibberish too!) for more than 4 years and never once wondered who is funding.
Hope to see more of some fresh perspectives from people like u.
Sridhar

re:#115 by AlephNull
(So as you can see, Chowk Paki buddhijeevis like HisRabidity, HydroPhobia and ahmadzai are not really ahead of the curve in advocating terrorism in India at large.)
No, they are not.
They are showing their true colors and coming out into the open. This is a good thing. We now know who is what.
I advocated friendship with Pakistan when i joined chowk. Today, i openly say Pukistan should be dismembered if it does not change its ways because it has become a liability for the entire world, not just for India. Pakistan is where worldwide jehad is conceived and implemented.
I am sure i am not the first one to openly say what i say and that a similar thought must have permeated the Indian ruling elite.
Sridhar

re:#112 by GT
GT,
If cost becomes prohibitive for India, India may just choose to attack pukistan and get rid of this sore spot from Mother Earth.
Think about it.
OTOH, Pakis may be doing India a favor by forcing them to strengthen defense against an enemy. Indian Police, judiciary, Intelligence network all need overhauling.
Sridhar

re:105 by ahmadzai
Another closet jehadi coming out in the open.
Why am i not surprised?
What makes Pakis think that Pukistan will not be declared a terrorist nation?
After all, it is easy to trace all jehadi violence to pakistan.
We now know that London bombers had strong links to pakistan, even if they were all not born in Paksitan.
Sridhar

re:#101 by GT
As i have already said, Pakis can strike at soft targets and India (thr` RAW) would respond in kind in Pakistan.
India would likely open a second front on Pak`s western borders (already happening) and make life difficult for Mushy.
What Pak can do, India can do 10 times more effectively.
There is Sindhi, Baloch disenchantment waiting to be expolited.
There is this Sunni-Shia rift.
The fact is: Pakistan is no shining armor either and has a number of skeltons in its closet.
Sridhar

re:#89 by shishapa on March 30, 2006 10:34am PT
(HP,

Are you related to Hamid Gul or one of those generals, like father/son or
something like that)

No. I think HP is just an average Abdul peeved at India`s recent diplomatic, economic success and venting his anger in this forum.
He however harbors a typical jehadi mindset, as does every paki. Only, he speaks it openly now, while others hide behind the cloak of decency.
Sridhar

re:#138 by einsteinwallah
south Indians do not hate north indians. They just do not like them! There is a difference. North Indians have also not tried to learn anything about south and have sterotyped a south indian in movies, dramas etc.
You seem to imply India is united because of Pakistan. That is ridiculous.
India became united much before Pak came into existence first geographically thr` British rule (who gave India a form of governance, democracy etc) and politically by fighting the common enemy (the British) thr` mass movement by leaders like Gandhiji. In South, Gandhi is the only North Indian leader who commands respect to this day.
Pakistan is a diseased appendix rotting away after it was severed from the main body (India) by a surgical operation (partition).
I say: let it rot away.
Sridhar

re: masanmuthus rantings
(Pakistan`s idea of taking ``jihadis`` into the Indian mainland is ``cost effective`` and a good idea..)
Looks like u are the new idiot on chowk.
Paki jehad in India is neither cost effective nor a good idea.
For decades, jehad from Paki side was confined to J and K.
Why do u think that was the case? Why did not the jehadists go for the rest of India?
The reason is obvious (though it may not be to morons like u).
Politically and militarily, loss of Kashmir has always rankled among the elite of Pakistan. Annexation of Kashmir was tried 3 times and failed each time. The second time around, Pakistan got dismembered. So, military planners started this idea of ``wounding by a thousand cuts`` in Kashmir and started the low-intensity war in Kashmir with the help of terrorists infiltrating from across LOC and recruting local Kashmiris sympathetic to their cause. Kashmiris fell prey to this because they had gotten disenchanted with GOI after many rigged elections (can`t blame them!) and wanted their own governance at any cost. Jehad looked like a good idea then.
Islamists and military planners in Pakistan thought that once there is a large scale uprising in Kashmir, they can demand a plebescite and get international players for mediation. Note: Pakis were still wary for a direct confrontation as they had learnt their lessons (that was reinforced in kargil) that India cannot be defeated by a direct military confrontation.
Just as they had thought, this low intensity conflict did bring in thousands of Indian troops to manage. However, Paki planners had not planned for 9/11!
9/11 changed everything.
The so called ``freedom fighters`` now are seen as terrorists. The world community today is wary of any change in geographical entity of a country thr` violent means. Which means: the US and international community has no sympathy with Kashmiri jehadists. Pakistan`s dictator Musharraf is busy dismantling the apparatus of jehad from POK.
It is in this scenario that jehadists have started targetting soft targets in India (a busy bazaar in Delhi during Diwali, a temple in Benaras).
Their hope is that this would lead to a rift between Hindus and muslims, create a hindu backlash and nationwide riots.
They are getting some help from some disgruntled muslims. Recently, Indian Intelligence network arrested an Imam in Allahabad who was seen to be hobnobbing with Paki terrorists.
But Pakis are wasting their time if they think that such acts of terror would lead to a backlash among the communities.
In Kashmir valley, Pandits were targetted and made to flee the valley. No backlash happened. For decades, Hindus and Sikhs have been targetted in buses, bazaars in Kashmir with no backlash. Do u think the Indian masses are so stupid? Everyone knows where the source of jehad is.
So, my advice to u would be to read, learn, assimilate. Most importantly, smell the coffee and not continue to be a chowk idiot.
Sridhar
P.S: I have told u why jehad is not a good idea for Pakistan. Your homework would be to figure out why it is not cost effective!

re:#143 by sanjay
US is worried about China`s military expansion, NOT about some low end products coming out of China that has made lives of millions of US easy.
If not China, there are a zillion other places where manufacturing of low end products can be outsourced. Big names like Walmart like China because it gets bulk quantities of products at cheap prices. If u have ever been to Walmart u will know. Most products are sold at less than 10 dollars (considered cheap by US standards). But go to a place like Target. You will know the difference.
US is worried about losing out to China militarily in the long run. China`s increasing military capability has implications for US in defending Taiwan (a US ally) from annexation by mainland China. China has more than 700 missiles pointed at Taiwan and is furiously preparing for the day when it would invade Taiwan. It knows that US would respond militarily (US is bound by a Treaty), so China is preparing for its defense after it has invaded Taiwan. All this may not happen even in 10 years but the furious rate at which China is expanding its military has US worried.
Read this article from the American Enterprise Institute that debates policies of US govt.
Excerpts:
(Also in July, the Pentagon’s annual report to Congress confirmed the rapid growth in Chinese military capabilities.[3] The report pointed out that the weapons that Beijing has amassed to intimidate Taiwan--700 short-range missiles, a modernizing fleet of diesel and nuclear submarines, fourth-generation aircraft procured from Russia, increased operational tempo and sophistication of military exercises--also can be used against other regional powers.

Other reports followed, including studies from the RAND Corporation, the International Institute for Strategic Studies and the Congressionally-mandated U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission.[4] And, while there may be some disagreement about the specifics, there is consensus on the big issue: China’s military modernization program is ambitious, rapid, successful, and opaque.)
(Whatever the actual numbers, what is clear is that China is devoting great resources to becoming a military power, while masking its activity toward that end. Indeed, there is a profound anxiety in Washington over what has come to be known as “China’s rise”: China’s dramatic economic growth, its remarkable increase in military power, and its more prominent role in international diplomacy, all underpinned by a one-party dictatorship with no political reform in sight.)
(...the Chinese strategic concept revolves around ballistic and cruise missiles that can target American air bases in Japan; information attacks that can take advantage of American dependence on computer-generated intelligence and information; and diesel submarines and a host of multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicle (MIRV) missiles that can be fired from submarines or destroyers. These priorities can pose serious problems for the workhorse of the American military in the Pacific: an aircraft carrier group.)
(In an attempt to respond to this challenge, the United States has commenced a redeployment of its assets to and in the Pacific. The Pentagon has moved attack submarines and cruise missiles to Guam, and is forming on that island a strike force of six bomber aircraft and 48 fighters which have been redeployed there from continental bases. The U.S. Navy is also moving a second carrier to East Asia, and converting Trident ballistic submarines into platforms for stealth cruise missiles.)
So, dude,
It ain`t about pants and knickers.
US is worried that China will upstage it in Asia and become a dominant power there in future and will also annex Taiwan sometime in future.
Sridhar

It is time for Pakistanis to ask their military the right questions about Bangladesh......

Bangladesh team demands apology from Pakistan for `71 genocide


World Social Forum


Monday March 27 2006 08:12:13 AM BDT


The members of the Bangladesh delegation participating in the World Social Forum (WSF) in Karachi demanded an apology from Pakistan for the genocide during 1971.(The Daily Star)

They made the demand at a discussion in Karachi organised on the eve of the 26th March, the Independence Day of Bangladesh, a press release of Shushashoner Jonno Procharabhijan (Supra) from Karachi said.

The speakers said the Liberation War of Bangladesh in 1971 was not a fight against the Pakistani people; it was a fight against the Pakistani army rulers of that time.

They also demanded moving the grave of Birshrestha Flight Lieutenant Motiur Rahman from Karachi to Bangladesh. If not possible, the grave should be made open to all visiting Bangladeshis who want to pay respects, they added.

Apart from equal distribution of all assets from pre-1971 period, the speakers also demanded that Pakistan government take back all the stranded Pakistanis and provide equal citizenship rights to the migrant Bangladeshi labourers in Pakistan.

Prof Mejbah Kamal, team leader of Manusher Jonno Shaheen Anam, Asgar Ali Sabri, Shabbir Bin Shams, Abdul Awal, Helal Fayazi, Rezaul K Chowdhury, Samia Islam, Zakir Hossain, Shamima Nasreen and Abul Hossain spoke at the discussion among others.

After the discussion they held a rally on the WSF premises and chanted slogans for their claims and for greater peoples` unity among all South Asian countries.

vast majority of security forces casualties in Kashmir ARE in fact Kashmiri police..and almost all of them are muslim.

Re: # 131 stuka

OK fine - have it your way - let`s have Police Action in Kashmir, instead of Army Action.... whatever works.... but remember - it was the police ``action`` that broke terrorism in Punjab - not ``talk with militants``....

++++

I think it`s wrong to say Army ``failed`` in punjab - army ``softened up`` the situation to the point where a police force can take over.... In kashmir - if J&K police were upto the job - then the whole mess wouldn`t have started in the first place, would it?....