Ahmadis – The Forgotten People

one of the clinching EVIDENCES that Ahmedis are INDEED Muslims -- and not Hindus, not Christians, not Zoroastrians, not Buddhist, not Sikhs not African animists --

....is

....that they are hated by -- persecuted by -- maligned by -- -- harmed by -- killed by -- denied Muslimsness by -- their mosques destroyed by -- their two fellow Muslim sects:

the Shias and the Sunnis -- in the same Islamic manner of sectarian hatred -- that the Shia and the Sunnis -- employ against each other -- persecute each other -- malign each other -- harm each other -- kill each other -- deny Muslimness to each other -- and destroy historical and non shistorical mosques belonging to each other....

my advice to my Ahmedi friends -- assert your Muslimsness -- by doing everything to the Shias and the Sunnis -- that hey have done to you -- in the best traditions of Islamic fratricidal Hadithic and post Hadithic history....

... then and then only -- your other Muslim Brethren will accept you -- as their equal -- as an authentic truly `good` glorious Muslims....

....in fact what is true Muslimness wthout sectarian hatred and bloodshed?.........it is pussy cat Buddhism

.....and Ahmedis ARE pussy cat Muslims

masadi sahib:
trying to secure a checkmate with one and only Q for Queen could get very tricky sometimes. That is why Knight comes in handy sometimes or a curiously placed pawn here and there like Sattar sahib deftly put Ayesha bibi around and then he dealt with your Quran to deliver a stunning stalemate. better luck next time. :-)

Still Kaafir

assuming all sects attract equal followers by bribing, more elaborate promises of a hedonistic heaven or plain old state sponsored coercion.

And the problem is by Wolfe`s logic that the probability of followers going to Hell increases as you let islam to be defined by every x,y,z as per Hadith that only one sect of Islam will stay true to the message and everyone else will be sent to Hell.
So, hypothetically if we entertain that there are only two sects in Islam then the probability of one of them going to hell is 0.5.

With 3 sects, it is 2 sects out of three going to hell -> 2/3=0.666 proportion or 66% of muslims following the hell-going path.
With four sects, it will be 3/4 = 0.75, 75% muslims going to Hell.

So asymptotically speaking, more sects coming in Islam will produce probability of a randomly picked muslim believing in hell-going sect very close to 1.

Therefore, it is important to keep newage followers and their sects outside of the traditional circle of Islam from the get-go.

#151 by salim chauhan...
[Ahmedis are very respectful, in fact much more respectful than fanatics, fundos, and terrorists like Wahabbis, when it comes to the Holy Prophet (PBUH). Ahmedis are not the ones going around maligning the good name of Mohammad (PBUH) like ``Mohammad`` Ata did.]

...lest some of you are taken in by this charlatan about respect to the holy prophet...here is what he said about holy prophet`s wife ayesha bint abu bakr on unplugged...

``#37 A Hero of subcontinental Muslims, Sultan Mahmood of Ghazni
on April 6, 2006 3:37pm PT
By the way, is it true that Ayesha Baker took on a Hindu lover because no Muslim would dare touch her?``

To answers the question many interactors, specifically Stuka, brought up that why Ahmadis have to insist on calling them Muslims if this is against the central belief of Islam (finality of Mohammad). Someone mentioned in one of the posts that Islam is like an onion. It`s a very true analogy. It actually applies to any faith for that matter. It`s a paradox. The more you dig deep the more contradictions you find and more questionable it becomes.

How do we know Quran was not altered and is purely word of God? It`s only matter of faith. Chances of a book written 1400 years ago and still maintain it`s ``purity`` is quite susceptible. How do we know that history was not maligned to twist the words on finality of Mohammad as the last prophet? Or any other tenants of Islam for that matter? It`s all a matter of belief and people who hold that belief are free to do so as much as those may interpret the ``finality`` differently.

Ahmadis should be allowed to call themselves Muslims without fear of persecution even if their beliefs are not aligned with the mainstream Muslim beliefs of Sunnis etc. Their beliefs should not be dictated by interepretation of other sects. It is so because everything in the faith held by any other sect is also contradictory or questionable. There is no single centrality to Islam. It is proclaimed so in an effort to ``perserve`` it as pure which leads to conflict which exactly what it is. It`s more of an effort to set a ``standard`` for the sake of identity (being Muslim) than actual practice and there is no single identity to begin with. So by that virtue Ahmadis should also be considered a legitimate sect of Islam like Sunnis, Shias, Wahabis etc.

Re: # 152
Ouff Allah! Laughing my butt off
So FUNNY!

HP in his #32 is absolutely correct. The persecution of Ahmedis was a result of their beurocratic dominance, and not for any other reason.

HP, any more information on the elimination of Liaquat Ali Khan? I heard Roedad Khan say that it was Khizar Hyat.

Re: # 32
sorry for the late response on this one but lets try to make facts right ..
HP sahab, you think that Maulana Madoodi helped Urdu Speaking Officers to get rid of Punjabi Ahmedis etc......which world do you live in mate ?
Urdu Speaking bureaucracy had always been a victum infact still is , I am a civil servent & I know how we are treated in Islamabad, Punjab & by the Establishment Division . The reason why there was more Urdu speaking bureaucracy was simple because rest of Muslims in our four privinces never studies and were into agriculture - well they dont study even now . The problem lies in people like you , who are so full of hate against Urdu Speaking Nation that you would actually go to the lenght of making theories like Madoodi ,
Urdu Speaking bureaucracy nexus - get a life !!! and its not Muslims from UP , Muslims from Bihar * which I am orignally * Muslims from AP , Hyderabad and other provinces which made up Urdu Speaking bureaucracy -

Manto,

LOL... As you know salim pai... I am already an Khoja Ismaili Shiite. Converted last year...

How do you convert into Ismaili, or as Salim recommends, even twelver Shiaa`s? You can`t toss about the divinity of five or seven or twelve Imams like juggling balls? These are the lost spiritual bearings of the entire body of Islam.

I support the return of Caliphate for this reason alone. For return of the spirituality.

The spirituality in Islam is lost completely in the temporal struggle. I believe in all Imams, as well as a firm belief that anything descended directly from Ali was the original spiritual path. The other caliphs before him, of-course, expanded and consolidated as was the need of the time, with great judgement, but after it was complete, only Ali could have kept it on the path to its logical conclusion.

I can tell you this. When the resting place of Hasan al-Askari was desecrated, it grieved me deeply. Islam is incomplete in any other form without all those Imams minus none.

comming to the end of the thread , what do we learn should I say what I learned is :

a) Ahmedis ( religious or no religious ) will defend themselves quoteing Ahemdi Books and people who had been close to them -
b) Ahmedis will in future will call themselves `Muslims`
c) Ahmedis hate Wahabis, Deobandis and people who oppose them
d) Ahmedis will do what ever to legitimize themselves even if they had to do ask Americans to attack us
e) Sunnis , Shias and rest of 70 sects will not in million years consider Ahmedis as Muslims
f) Pakistani Government will never consider Ahmedis as Muslims
g) Banya aka Hindus , will continue to exploit us and poke into our religious affairs
h) Only way Ahmedis will be accepted when they consider themselves as `Non-Muslims`
i) Pakistani Government should relax some hudood laws --

Re: # 166 IB

Yep - it`s all my fault....

@Mohar ,
in Rajistan ( and correct me if I am wrong ) they passed a law which will prosicute anyone who changes his / her religion - whats happening in `secular bharat` ? are they too scared of followers of Jesus Crist and Mohammad (s.a.w ) ? or something else..
plus , one could change his / her beliefs in Islam as long as he or she keeps in mind following :
a) that Allah is one and theres no one worthy for prayers except Allah aka God
b) that Mohammad (s.a.w) was Allah(s) last prophet

Mohar the problem with guys like you is that you just like to poke your noise in every matter which concers you or which does not concerns you . No one here ever said anything bad about your idols ? so why such hate ? the problem lies deep rooted in hindu mentality , I guess!!!

salim

Change of Heart?.....hmmmm - how does that work?.....I mean, let`s say today you are a sunni, you are all in love with Old Mo, thumping his koran, follwoing his ``message``, doing all the stuff he has prescribed...... and then you wake up next morning, you get a flash in brain and realize that you are following the wrong path, Old Mo is lying to you....so then you quit and fall in love with the Ali, the shia founder - now he becomes your new saviour.... is that how it happens?....

people convert for money or to avoid persecution - that makes sense....I never understood this ``change of heart`` conversion stuff... That points to what I said earlier - you guys are just too obssessed with these 6th-century bedouins and their giberish....

Mohar11, #163 {``How do you ``convert`` from one version of islam to another version?.... what differnce does it make anyway - jumping from one sewer to another sewer....?``}

Mohar Bhai,
It`s called a ``change of heart.`` As to your question regarding sewers, some sewers have fewer crocodiles than others, while some sewers are just filled with rats. :)