Ahmadis – The Forgotten People

Urstruly …

Several scholars throughout history of Islam have interpreted “Seal of Prophets” to suggest “most exalted prophet”. It is your own fault if you did not know this.

I provided you this link several times … so don’t get too cute …

Click [Views on continuation of propohethood]

Your scholars also tell you that Issa-ibne-Marriam resides above the clouds. And they base this on Quran … even after 1400 years!!

Your ullema are uncouth, jahil fanatics. That may be part of your problem ...

masadi (more on #135),

You have misunderstood Quranic view of ``not differentiating between God’s messengers``. You are missing the context and therefore misinterpreting the issue.

Certain distinctions between prophets need to be maintained. For example, using “Moses” to refer to “Jesus” would be absurd. Doing away with such differentiation between prophets would be incorrect.

Prophets differed in their missions and scopes of their respective prophethood. Quran attests to differences in ranks of prophets when it says:

”We have made some of these apostles to excel the others, among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by rank … “ (2:253)

My view is that Quran assigns highest rank to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) by calling him “Seal of Prophets”. Divine Law was perfected through his prophethood. Quran also calls him “Model for believers” and “Mercy for all the worlds”.

+++++

”Not differentiating between God’s messengers” suggests that a believer must accept all prophets as valid, righteous, messengers of God. Message brought by all messengers shared the spirit of establishing a close relationship between man and his Creator.

This teaching eliminates feelings of competition and jealousy between Muslims and others. It makes it easier for others to accept messengership of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) since his message attests to propohethood and righteousness of other prophets. This is fully consistent with meaning of “Seal of Prophets” as I explained earlier.

Along these lines, as an Ahmadi Muslim I accept messengership not only of Prophets Moses and Abraham etc., but also that of Prophets Buddha, Ram, Krishna, Zaratushtra, and more (peace be upon all of them). I hope you get the point.

Re: # 256

Could you point me to the Arabic text where terminology like khatam-ul-muhaqaqeen, and khatam-ul-Auliya might have been used.

And the next question is, why didn`t Arabs figure out the meaning of Khatam to be ``par excellence`` in 1400 years, until Mirza Sahib figured it out.

Masadi #135:

Your position that … every word Quran uses, Quran must use it in each and every possible meaning and connotation … is unreasonable. Since Quran is neither a dictionary nor a lexicon, your view is quite absurd.

Seal may be used to close something. Seal is also an emblem - a sign of authority, approval, authenticity, validation. A seal, while is seals a document, also verifies its authority and authenticity.

I cited two Arabic references to support such use of khatam (seal):

- khatam-ul-muhaqaqeen … suggesting a muhaqaq par excellence
- khatam-ul-Auliya … suggesting a wali par excellence

I cited another Arabic reference … where Bibi Ayesha reportedly said that … ”do call him (Prophet Muhammad, pbuh) khatam-un-nabiyeen, but do not say that there will be no prophet after him”.

Your failure to give any consideration to these references borders on stubbornness. You come across as a close-minded mullah.

++++++++++

1) To sum things up, my view is that “khatam-ul-nabiyeen” suggests a prophet most exalted, par excellence, in whose personality office of prophethood got consummated to its highest levels.

2) “Seal of Prophets” also suggests that Quran, the message brought by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), completes and consummates Divine Law. This Law has been perfected in Quran and no changes in Divine Law can occur. So yes, the Divine Law is now “sealed up” through prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), if this makes you happy.

3) Seal is also a stamp and an emblem that validates a document, an office, a person`s rank. “Seal of Propohets” also suggests that message brought by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) confirms proophethood of earlier prophets. Since it is no secret that Bible has been tampered with, without Quran it would be difficult to establish prophethood of earlier prophets like Moses, Jesus, Abraham, Noah (peace be upon them). Quran confirm righteousness, piety, and prophethood of such prophets beyond any doubt.

4) Similarly, “Seal of Prophets” suggests that prophethoood may now be achieved only by walking in footsteps of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), that is, by following the message he brought. The door to prophethood is now open only through prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). In essence, going forward, he is the ``Seal of Propohets``.

++++++++++

You may cover your eyes and ears ... and insist that seal can have only one meaning. Such ignorance will not get you anywhere.

I’ll shortly address other issues you raised.

Re: # 253

Dear Farhan,

I think Sattar Sahib has more than adequately answered all the relevant scripture and Hadith to make the point that Ahmadis are Muslims. My personal (and it doesn’t matter what I personally think) issue is that no one should be subjected to clarify his/her religious beliefs, as those beliefs are a very personal matter. As Sattar Sahib has indicated, the philosophy of our Jammat is “Hatred for None, and Love for All”. May be some here have the false impression that Pakistani Ahmadis are not patriotic. Whomever believes that speaks from ignorance. Ahmadi scientists, business people, continue to contribute to the betterment of Pakistan like other Pakistanis. It is true that Ahmadis have sought asylum in other countries, that is because life has become very hard for some of them. Even then, most have very strong ties to Pakistan, and continue to do whatever they can. Our Jammat in New York dispatched doctors to Kashmir as well as other material aid. For crying out loud, we are Pakistanis.

IB

Re #166:
First, let’s try to get kalima straight … ”There is no god but Allah and Muhammad (pbuh) is His messenger.”

There is no mention in kalima of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) being the last prophet. Nice try, but no go … sorry.

Re #168:
Ahmadis do not hate Wahabis, Deobandi etc. Our motto is “Love for All, Hatred for none”. Hating others and carrying spite for those who oppose us would be counter to message of Quran and the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

I hope you are joking when you say that Ahmadis would go as far as asking Americans to attack you. If this was a joke, you have a twisted sense of humor. If you are serious, you’ve got problems.

And Ahmadis are not interested in being accepted as non-Muslims. We rest our faith in Allah Almighty and believe we’ll be alright with His help.

Re #130:
Insisting that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the last prophet … does not make your case. You may also continue to insist that earth is flat. You may believe whatever you want about return of Issa from two thousand years ago … and ”Kara-Dajal - a devil like creature maybe a human with one eyes which will descend from sky on a donkey” … and call yourself Muslim. Please don’t expect other Muslims to accept your views. Live and let live …

Salams Mr. QutabShahi,

I agree to instances of this article that explain how and when the persecution against the ``Ahmedis`` took place. I belong to a Sunni family in Pakistan who are also Hanafi by the way. I came here to Australia to study Engineering and the exposure I got here in terms of Religious freedom and National identity was immense. I have a few friends here who are asylum seekers from Pakistan on the basis that they are ``Ahmedis``. I respect their right to believe in whatever they like, and they are very close to me. i have a few reservations though..... how your religious scholars believe that you are the sect on the right path that was described by the Prophet Muhammad`s (SAW) hadith as always being on the right path. When this ``Ahmediyya`` was formed, wasn`t it true thought that one sect was still on the best path?? So it means that either u dont agree to that Hadith or you did not make the effort to realise that there were people already following the right path.
Also if anyone calls themselves Muslim, They also have to agree to the Shariah where it specifies the punishment for some one who converts out of Islam. Religious freedom and Human Rights are 58 years old as u specified, Islam on the other hand is 1426 years old.

:)

Farhan

#251, Jang,
You did not mention Hussaini Brahmins. Do you have a problem with high-caste Ashrafi Muslims?

sala wtf..every sub-minority in india is ``hard-working`` and have done ``well`` ..let me list a few..

mathurs
aggarwals
khatris
leve-patidars (gujju-patel)
shvetambar jains
digambar jains
swami-narayan panthis
sukhur panchayat sindhis
parsees
ghati brahmins
tamil brahmins
ghati marathas
bihari kayasthas
bangali kayastas
nairs
shettys
warriers
palghatis
tulus
kamas
reddys
bohras
khojas
memons
saraswat brahmins
kasmiri pundits

Discoverer #248, {``But these filkaa al though call themselve muslim and their own trait, shia have a different way of praying for instance, they reject the original kalma, same case with Ahmaddies which is nothing else except a money making religion ``}

Sir/Lady,
May I remind you that Shias are not the ones who separated from the mainstream. In fact, Shias (partisans, friends) of Hazrat Imam Ali were those Muslims who were loyal to the Caliph. The Sunnis came much much later, as followers of the four Schools of Thought - Hanafis, Malekis, Shafeis, and Hanbalis. So, in the beginning there were Muslims who followed Imam Ali and they were called Shias. Then there were others who followed Muawiyah or just didn`t care, or were against both. The latter were called Kharijites. As for Ahmedis being a money-making religion, what do you think of Saudi Wahabbis? If wealth is a measurement of hypocrisy, then Wahabbis take the cake.

#246, KulhaRee Payee {``Vanilla Mirzai. ``}

You have a point - it takes a lot of U-turns to get to one`s destination even with an expensive navigation system with a sexy voice. So, by that logic, a ``Chocolate Mirzai`` would have a triple disadvantage in the west - Muslim, camel-jockey terrorist, and swarthy.

Ahmadis-a fabricated religion.

Just imagine a scholar going well in his part, teaching youngster a proper religion started by Prophet Muhammade (P.B.U.H), teaching hadith and all & one fine day woke up and claimed that he is the ressurected jesus or Isa. This is what happen when people go nut, the first reason y ppl call ahmadies non muslim is simple and as follow:

mirza had rejected what Prophet Muhammad had taugh us and what HE started off. He started a religion ISLAM but soon after HIS death different categories emerge, shia, ahmaddies and so on. But these filkaa al though call themselve muslim and their own trait, shia have a different way of praying for instance, they reject the original kalma, same case with Ahmaddies which is nothing else except a money making religion which toys with human emotiona dn their believe.

Ahmaddies and Boris are more likly the same, both of them have a male leader who started their community or religion. I am sure that the decendent of mirza are the one in comfort just like the buris.

How ever, a person who claim to be prophet without any clear proof is nothing else then a imposter and hypocrite & followers of hypocricy have no respevt n e where.

Manto #223, {``Mian BJKumar...
Your insinuations just show the real sickness that pervades your very soul. ...
I am not a disgusting sewer rat like you... but I`ll tell you- conversions are a matter of conscience and only those who are able to think and understand may convert. ``}

Manto,
I compliment you in the restrained and polite manner that you have used to dispose of this hate-monger. The man knows very little about poetry and even less about matters of conscience. He had no right to question your motives regarding conversion. I respect your rights as an Ismaili, an Ahmedi, or a Jehova`s Witness. No matter which group you choose to affiliate yourself with, you are a tribute to that association. The Agha Khan and Ismailis have done a lot of good things throughout the world - that may explain why he doesn`t have to hide in a cave.

Re: # 245

Salim Bhaijan, I think Malik Sahib makes a good point. I think he is suggesting that If a Mirzai is a Balooch or a Sindhi, he has it doubly hard, as opposed to being just Mirzai without an ethnic background, like a Vanilla Mirzai.

#215 malik99, {``What mirzaees face in the way of ``discrimination`` in Pakistan is nothing compared to what Sindhis, Baluchis, or even Mohajirs face. ``}

Malik Sahib,
I think you are missing the point altogether. True, Sindhis, Baluchis, Mohajirs, and even Shias have faced discrimination, repression, and even violent deaths. However, what the unfortunate and undeserving Ahmedis have faced is much worse - legislated discrimination and ``legitimized`` expulsion from a spiritual membership. Not only is this humiliating, depressing, and cruel, it is also idiotic. Not even the Holy Propphet (PBUH) could decide who was a Muslim and who was not. Leave it to Bhutto, Zia, and the Jamaat-e-Islami to discover the truth and enshrine it as ``law.`` Somehow, looking at what happened to Bhutto, Zia, and Pakistan, my belief in God is reinforced.

#243, rsridhar {``Punjab is the reason why Pakistan is burning today. ``}

Shri rsridhar Sahib,
Minor correction - ``Punjab is the reason why Pakistan is burning today AND HAS BEEN BURNING SINCE 1971, AND POSSIBLY AS EARLY AS THE EARLY 50s.``