South Asian Socialism

Hamidm,

If you want to see the real China, go to Taiyuan (Shanxi) and not Xian (Shaanxi) which is a touristy area. These are different provinces you know ...

Re: # 195

Arjun:

This Wikipedia link was the best expression of what works.

Anil

Heck:

A leader does the right things.... And managers do the things right......

{every time i meet one of these guys i am amazed and , yes, insome cases overawed, by their intellect, integrity and energy ....... }

Really, you must be a person who is easily impressed.

Coporatist and intellect, eh?
Corporatist and integrity, eh? Forgot about the CEO of Boeing, uh!

Just like Nixon, until you get caught......uh!

Corporatist and energy...well, OK....Robbers do need energy.



{but by and large, most executives are honorable folks who dedicate their life to their company (and careers).......}

Yeah right!



Yes, sometimes....and only sometimes.....and go have a look at the whole section of business books on leadership, etc. Ever wondered if Jack Welsh reads those books? Or was it the Hunt brothers? Sure we can get few individuals who are individually great, but those people who rise up the corporate ladder because of office politics, how can they be considered leaders.

Let me educate you on the difference between a leader and a manager.

A leader does the does thing, and a manager does things right.

And the corporatists are even trying to call themselves leaders. Plain old nonsense.

Respectfully submitted,

All great posts, but not one single on was able to counter the main thrust of my argument, which is that capital is only created by a capitalit.

Let me state this in a different way.

I save some money and start a restaurant, and at that point I am a capitalist. My restaurant flourishes and I start a chain (franchise) with more money from my friends, etc., and I am still a capitalist. Now, I grow more and more, and heck, I need more and more money. Then of course the law of diminishing return sets in. But, still I have ego, etc. and bring in more people to handle my business.

Now, I go to the stock market and float shares. As soon as I float shares of my company, I become a corporatist. And to handle all of the other stuff I must hire managers. As a manager, the idiot that I hire is not working for the benefit of me as a capitalist, but for the stock market.

Ok...this first guy is honest and he works for the benefit of me and the shareholders...and then we hire a bunch of other idiots, and the musical chairs starts. Now, there is this collective dynamic of rascals running my show. He confuses me with all the idiotic stuff, kinda like a government bureaucrat. No difference between the two, except a different lingo.

Team buildup, six sigma, etc. Same superficial crap to confuse the poor entrepreneur capitalist. Suddenly the poor Joe Schmuck the capitalist is encircled with these visious idiots, who start collecting excessive dollars (pay + options) and he gets shafted.

Heck, I think, most of you get the idea.

Corporatists are not good for the economy, but capitalists are. All the other nonsense that this freedom of humanity is because of corporation is just utter nonsense. Like everything else, these politicos want to take credit where it is not due. They have already stolen humanity with other people`s money, and now they want to steal other people`s intelligence.

Give me a break.

Enjoying my rant, eh!

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 199

thamed,

...... is profile says that he is a scholar of `` islam and social justice`` ....... wht does that tell you ?......... you don`t have to be a genius to figure out where he and masadi are coming from ............ but if it makes you feel any better i will take off hazrats omar`s name off the list of charlatans :)

...... somtimes i wonder if we will ever be able to reform islam with apologists like you defending it all the way ............ it is quite hopeless, really ....

#196 by hamidm2
......``every time i meet one of these guys i am amazed and , yes, in some cases overawed, by their intellect, integrity and energy`` .....
...........................

That`s very normal & one expected of you.

Whosoever & whensoever anyone has camped or decamped near Taxila & Jhelum has hammered these lessons so well that now its part of their DNA`s.

Heck, it sounds like a joke but it isn`t, they have paid homage even to, of all people in the world, the sardars.

Never being even at the lowest rung of any totem pole you`re doing right to be ``overawed, by their intellect, integrity and energy`` .....

Your attempts at humour sometimes do get serious.

hamidm #197 you dont need to drag into islam into every damn thing. where is oak talking about hazrat omar or religion or anything?? get a life!!

oak #193 On your point (1), first a clarification: ``needle in a haystack`` (as you put it) is an incorrect analogy given what you are trying to say here. ``drop in the bucket`` is more appropriate. second, you are wrong in what you are trying to say - the fact is that remittances by immigrants are today a very significant source of ``foreign aid`` to developing countries. They are greater in magnitude than ODA (Official Development Assistance, which includes bilateral as well as multilateral aid) and they come with no political strings attached and in the form of grants rather than loans !!. Third world bureaucrats kow-tow to ``foreign donors``, but treat like dirt the poor Abduls (whose remittances are of far greater value than that of the agencies these ``foreign donors`` represent) when they visit their home countries.

You may google and check up the numbers that support what I have written above if you wish. I am writing from the numbers I remember seeing sometime back of ODA vs remittances.

Your point (2) is invalid too. What used to be called the ``brain drain`` 30 years ago has in fact proved over time to be a ``brain gain`` for developing countries. The reason for this: simply getting an MBBS from a developing country, or even a PhD from a western country does not change a person`s brain. They need to spend years and decades living and working in the western environment before they finally get it. Some live out their lives and die in the west and still dont get it.

Your point (3) is invalid too (sorry. but you really need to start thinking and stop repeating conventional wisdom of third world ``intellectuals``): the reality is that jobs with multinational agencies, or even export-oriented domestic firms, far from promoting ``unethical work codes`` are highly prized in developing countries.

Anyway, thanks for writing. I am sorry I have to side with this good-for-nothing, pompous, deceiving, spiteful little creap like Arjun #195 on this one - but you are dead wrong on all three points. But I think you will learn if you consider what I have written above with an open mind.

Re: # 195

arjun,

``Dude..we tried your system..`` ....... you are wrong - we have never tried the system oak is talking about ........ he is talking about the time of hazrat omar who would walk around the slums of mecca in the middle of the night with a sack of potatoes and a bucket full of fermented camel`s milk for the children - nobody went to bed hungry in his time ...... the traditiion continued under ali but he cut back on the fermented milk, the people revolted, and the rest is history ....... the system lasted six or seven years ...

............... that`s why i think it is a bad idea for the usda to distribute cheese to people who are already obese - what happens if they can`t do it next year ?........ we will have a riot in the bronx when masadi, oak and their pals show up for their weekly ration ......

green with envy,

....... i will be the first one to agree that in the last ten years or so executive compensation in america did get out of hand a little............ also, a number of charlatans and thieves like ken lay, bernie ebers and dennis kozlowski became the poster boys for human avarice and venality ......... but by and large, most executives are honorable folks who dedicate their life to their company (and careers)....... every time i meet one of these guys i am amazed and , yes, insome cases overawed, by their intellect, integrity and energy .......

.............. just as it is hard for an average man in the street to understand how michael jordan can fly in the air to dunk the ball, it is impossible for mortal humans to fathom what it takes to run a fortune 1000 company ....... and if we are willing to pay ten million a year for someone to stand at the line, drooling at the mouth and shoot a ball through the hoop, then 20m is a small price to pay someone whose decisions effect the livelihood of thousands of people ............... i think most of the preople bitchin on this board about greedy ``corporatists`` are simply green with envy .........slackers !

..... and besides, why would the best and brightest put up with the clowns at the sec, the fools in congress, idiotic board members and joe sixpack, when they can go and join a private equity firm which doesn`t have to tell you guys diddly ............. a lot of them are ......


P.s. masadi still does not understand productivity and i don`t have the time ...... we need some sophomore interns on the chowk who can explain these simple things to the pea-brained commies and the brain-dead islamists ....... i think arjun would be a good candiadate - sign him up!

#193 by oak on May 17, 2006 6:05am PT


(2) As regards immigration itself: a constant brain drain crises within the 3rd world offsets and in all likelyhood considerably over-rides any marginal reduction in disparity brought about by immigration.


That is the biggest lie propagated by the socialists and the commies(namely, YOU)..

Absent a system to utilize their skills in their home country, immigration of more educated people is actually a brain-gain...The immigrants pick up skills and experience that they can use back in the home country when the home country gets its act together..Prime example: India, China and Taiwan..

A decade ago there were hardly any people going back to India..now the IT boom is being sustained by people who came to the US as immigrants and gained valuable experience(and $$)..

Dude..we tried your system..The one that was supposed to make everyone equal and reduce disparities or whatever...It didn`t work.

Sure CEO pay is a problem...but that doesn`t mean the whole system is broken..Unlike Pakistan, Americans have a right to vote and they vote with their wallets...Why don`t you run for office on a platform of limiting CEO pay and see how many votes you get..

Re: # 192

tahmad32

>Namely that corporations, in promoting immigration to the US, is reducing income disparities at the global level .<

What you are talking about is a needle in a haystack, even if true. (1) There are continuing trends increasing and continuing to enforce economic disparity as pointed out in the UN Human Development Report of 2005. 2.5 billion people recieve less than 5% of the world income, whereas 54% of global income goes to the richest 10%. 53/73 countries, comprising some 80% of global population are recorded where income disparity has increased. A summary of the report can be found at: http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/inequal/2005/10compendium.pdf

(2) As regards immigration itself: a constant brain drain crises within the 3rd world offsets and in all likelyhood considerably over-rides any marginal reduction in disparity brought about by immigration. (3) Further, global corporations re-inforce disparity by monopolising supply industries of off-shore production facilities hence enforcing unsustainable tax breaks, unethical work codes etc. I have already referred to Naomi Klein`s exposition in this matter.

behram #186 In support of your contention (and I quote) but individuals, and only individual`s capitalism is good for the world, and corporatists are the evil you provide the following example One specific example is this new immigration issue that is being discussed in the country.

In fact this example proves the opposite. Namely that corporations, in promoting immigration to the US, is reducing income disparities at the global level . While Joe Jobless in the US may be (as you point out) unhappy about this, and so consider the ``corporatists`` (is this really a word, or did you just invent it?) to be evil. But Jose Lawnmowerez is happy since he now has money in his pocket. And at the global level, reductions in the north-south divide are good for the children of both Joe Jobless and of Jose Lawnmowerez since this leads to a more stable and just world.

And you wont find any american politician making this argument since his constituency is Joe Jobless, and not unborn generations in mexico (or pakistan for that matter). And that is why the lengthy quote from a US politician provided by SR #185 does not touch on this aspect either.

In other words, as confucius said, be careful what you wish for. What Joe Jobless wishes for is not necessarily good for his kids.

Re: # 190
Tvarad:

It is Gary Kildall`s wife, an attorney, who refused to sign the famous NDA that IBM wanted DR to sign. This alongwith what I wrote earlier was narrated by Gary Kildall himself in a small gathering in Silicon Valley a few years ago.

Bill Gates got the license from Seattle Computer (??) for $50,000 and did the deal with IBM. Later he gave options in Microsoft to the founder of Seattle Computer... who is now a billionaire as well.

Anil