Change Management:Marx and Muslims

#222 H2

Good old H2! Predictable as usual!

[i have no idea who congrsessman towns is but i would be more than happy to send him a couple of hundred bucks ........]

GO DO IT! GO FOR IT, BRO!

Be careful if he tries to sell you a bridge or two!

(Don`t forget where he is located!)

I suggest strongly that ALL Pakistani Super Patriots do the same!

Put that money where your mouth is! Yeah!

Re: # 221

i have no idea who congrsessman towns is but i would be more than happy to send him a couple of hundred bucks ........

#213 Yasser

There you go again, spreading lies as usual! Go find some other sucker to fall for this type of hogwash!

Congressman Towns (whom I mentioned at the end of the earlier #171 in a sarcastic reference) has a constant track-record of anti-India rhetoric - even worse than Dan Burton, senator from Indiana, who appears to have - post 9/11 - started seeing things in a slightly different light!) And guess what, rhetoric is ALL you will ever get!

Towns appears to get extensively quoted by Khalistani web sites, too.

I personally know of one Pakistani doctor from my neighborhood who contributed (I believe it was) $2k toward his election campaign plus some from his wife - at the time it was the maximum allowable limit. Explain to me the logic of a Pakistani moneybag living in Maryland putting this kind of money into the coffers of the Brooklyn, New York congressman in a (predominantly) black neighborhood! Just explain to me!

And does anyone really believe that this doctor neighbor of mine was the only one?

(And you think that the Indian parliamentarians recently caught taking money for slipping in questions came up with the idea strictly on their own - and were not ``inspired``?)

My dear Manto, I don`t have any special access to ``special`` information - all of this stuff is documented and IS on the internet for anybody who cares to find out! It is that simple.

All that money - and for what? To slip in a couple of pages into those archives who nobody cares for and except for future historians - who will simply shake their heads in amazement, nobody will, either!

Talk about throwing money away! Where would it do better - IN Pakistan where there is a legitimate need or to filling up the coffers of such characters` election booty? What kind of Pakistani Super Patriots are such people - or is that a case of easy come, easy go?

This seems to be an old Pakistani trick now (but the Khalistani bhai loags appear to be much better-versed at it due to a longer experience) - first pay somebody to slip in a page or two of prepared material into Congressional records - then start quoting that as a legitimate source!

It is also an exercise in futility - the desis will never believe you, and guess what - the Americans don`t really care because they know in their guts what is and what is not! Give my countrymen a bit more credit for their intelligence no matter what nasahat the likes of Nasah give here!

I ASSURE you that Congressman Towns laughs all the way to the bank!

The wily old fox H2 weaseled out of that one. But I felt sure SOMEBODY was going to bite.

Just was not sure it was to be you!

Jackpot!

And what happened to replying to #56 and #101, my dear?

#190 by aslam644 on May 28, 2006 8:17am PT


stats can be misleading


Yup...especially when the stats reflect poorly on pakis..It`s pathetic when you see Pakis - who tried their damndest to get on the IT bandwagon and failed miserably - mocking Indians as code coolies...

HP

LOL...you are too good! People don`t respect imagination enough :)

aquaris

There was nothing called `Hinduism,` in those days (as you probably well know).

The theory is about a very ancient proto belief system - based around human reverence for nature`s forces and respect for multiplicity of methods - that extended the entire pre-historic region. In that framework, Islam`s war against India is seen as mere continuation of Islam`s razing of the temple in Kaaba, and destruction of her statues. India and her civilization form Islam`s last frontier in this direction, if you will. :)

manto:

just a friendly reminder:

I have a question for you on Abroo board.

#214 by kaalchakra

...And this is how Iran is going to look like when I am done with the article…:) The power of imagination...:)
See the blank area between Pak and Iran....

Re: # 208


hp,

...... my genes will probably have a 95% match with the chmipanzee, that doesn`t mean i am going to start swinging from a tree any time soon ! ............. no sir, i refuse to acknowledge any kinship with the madrasi ......... punjabis, biharis, marwaris, gujus - maybe .... but not madrasis ..........

HP

LOL...a great point. One could go further. The old claim that Balochistan is an extension of Iran is pretty much the same as Iran is an extension of Balochistan. So if Pakistan has control over Balochistan, there is no reason why Iran itself should not be part of Pakistan.

With Iran doing her best to invite trouble, this may be Pakistan`s hour to estalish her legitimate claim over Iranian people!

(A bit distorted thinking, but it`s fun to think of different possibilities :))

Oh poor BJ.. did you get your ass whooped as usual?

The world is beginning to open its eyes... and realising that people who say ``I am an Indian first second and last`` and people who speak of complete equality regardless of religion caste or creed... like Jinnah ... are not exclusivist...

Instead it is the witchdoctors and the hatemongers ... like Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi who deserve that title...


RACISM OF INDIAN FOUNDER EXPOSED
(Extensions of Remarks - December 13, 2005)

HON. EDOLPHUS TOWNS
OF NEW YORK
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 13, 2005


Mr. TOWNS. Mr. Speaker, the unveiling of a statue of Mohandas K. Gandhi in Johannesburg, South Africa, set off a discussion about the anti-black racism of the founder of India.

When the eight-foot high Gandhi statue was unveiled, portraying him as a young human-rights lawyer, many leaders attacked Gandhi`s anti-black statements. “Gandhi had no love for Africans,`` said one letter in The Citizen, a South African newspaper. “To him, Africans were no better than the `Untouchables` of India.``

As you may know, Mr. Speaker, the dark-skinned aborigines of the subcontinent, known as Dalits or “Untouchables,`` occupy the lowest rung on the ladder of India`s rigid and racist caste system. The caste system exists to protect the privileged position of the Brahmins, the top caste. Although it was officially banned by India`s constitution in 1950, it is still strictly practiced in Hindu India.

Others have pointed out that Gandhi ignored the suffering of black people during the colonial occupation of South Africa. When he was arrested and forced to share a cell with black prisoners, he wrote that they were “only one degree removed from the animal.`` In other words, Mr. Speaker, he described blacks as less than human. We condemn anyone who says this in our country, such as the Ku Klux Klan and others, as we should. Why is Gandhi venerated for such statements?

In addition, G.B. Singh, a Gandhi biographer, has looked through many pictures of him and never seen one single black person. Gandhi also attacked white Europeans.

Gandhi is honored as the founder of India. These statements and attitudes reveal the racist underpinning behind the secular, democratic facade of India. It explains a worldview that permits a Dalit constable to be stoned to death for entering the temple on a rainy day, that allows the murders of over 300,000 Christians in Nagaland, over 250,000 Sikhs in Punjab, Khalistan, over 90,000 Muslims in Kashmir, tens of thousands of Christians and Muslims elsewhere in the country, including Graham Staines and his two young sons, and tens of thousands of Assamese, Bodos, Dalits, Manipuris, Tamils, and other minorities. It explains why the pro-Fascist, Hindu militant RSS is a powerful organization in India, in control of one of its two major political parties.

India must abandon its racist attitudes and its exploitation of minorities. It must allow the enjoyment of full human rights by everyone. Until it does so, we should stop our aid and trade with India. Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, the essence of democracy is the right to self-determination. India must allow self-determination for Kashmir, as it promised the United Nations in 1948, in Punjab, Khalistan, in Nagaland, and wherever the people seek to free themselves from the boot of Indian oppression. We should put this Congress on record in support of self-determination for the people of the subcontinent in the form of a free and fair plebiscite on the question of independence. Khalistan declared its independence on October 7, 1987. The people have never been allowed to have a simple, democratic vote on the matter. Instead, India continues to oppress the people there with over half a million troops.

Mr. Speaker, reporter Rory Carroll of The Guardian wrote an excellent article on the controversy about the Gandhi statue. I would like to place it in the Record at this time.

[The Guardian, Friday Oct. 17, 2003]

GANDHI BRANDED RACIST
AS JOHANNESBURG HONOURS FREEDOM FIGHTER
(By Rory Carroll)

It was supposed to honour his resistance to racism in South Africa, but a new statue of Mahatma Gandhi in Johannesburg has triggered a row over his alleged contempt for black people. The 2.5 metre high (8ft) bronze statue depicting Gandhi as a dashing young human rights lawyer has been welcomed by Nelson Mandela, among others, for recognising the Indian who launched the fight against white minority rule at the turn of the last century.

But critics have attacked the gesture for overlooking racist statements attributed to Gandhi, which suggest he viewed black people as lazy savages who were barely human.

Newspapers continue to publish letters from indignant readers: “Gandhi had no love for Africans. To [him], Africans were no better than the `Untouchables` of India,`` said a correspondent to The Citizen.

Others are harsher, claiming the civil rights icon “hated`` black people and ignored their suffering at the hands of colonial masters while championing the cause of Indians.

Unveiled this month, the statue stands in Gandhi Square in central Johannesburg, not far from the office from which he worked during some of his 21 years in South Africa.

The British-trained barrister was supposed to have been on a brief visit in 1893 to represent an Indian company in a legal action, but he stayed to fight racist laws after a conductor kicked him off a train for sitting in a first-class compartment reserved for whites.

Outraged, he started defending Indians charged with failing to register for passes and other political offences, founded a newspaper, and formed South Africa`s first organised political resistance movement. His tactics of mobilising people for passive resistance and mass protest inspired black people to organise and some historians credit Gandhi as the progenitor of the African National Congress, which formed in 1912, two years before he returned to India to fight British colonial rule.

However, the new statue has prompted bitter recollections about some of Gandhi`s writings.

Forced to share a cell with black people, he wrote: “Many of the native prisoners are only one degree removed from the animal and often created rows and fought among themselves.``

He was quoted at a meeting in Bombay in 1896 saying that Europeans sought to degrade Indians to the level of the “raw kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness``.

The Johannesburg daily This Day said GB Singh, the author of a critical book about Gandhi, had sifted through photos of Gandhi in South Africa and found not one black person in his vicinity.

The Indian embassy in Pretoria declined to comment, as it prepared for President Thabo Mbeki`s visit to India.

Khulekani Ntshangase, a spokesman for the ANC Youth League, defended Gandhi, saying the critics missed the bigger picture of his immense contribution to the liberation struggle.

Gandhi`s offending comments were made early in his life when he was influenced by Indians working on the sugar plantations and did not get on with the black people of modern-day KwaZulu-Natal province, said Mr. Ntshangase.

“Later he got more enlightened.``



Yes... I know he is not a credible source... because Towns is black... and Towns, like Sikhs and untouchables, has no right to opine on Gandhi.

Re: # 202

yeah Lot of theories.....

then there is the One...which claim Kaaba to be a Hindu temple.... with Shiv Lingum in it.
also with a Hindu Poem...or inscription being found in the Kaaba before Islam...


http://www.sulekha.com/groups/postdisplay.aspx?cid=1007&forumid=1000034


Also the One .... by Aitezaz Ahsan [ Indus Saga ].. which claims a seperate identiy of the area ...which is Now Pakistan...

#198 herono1

[...this was published in your wife`s site and got only 35 interacts.]

So? All that it proves is that there are fewer interacts when people have to PAY for a site! Desis by and large are considered ``cheap`` for a good reason, after all! (Chowk owners shold take note of this fact before they start considering fees - now or in future!!! (Ooops, I think I just gave them another reason not to raise the authors` wages.))

But why were you hanging around THAT site, anyway? Looking for a match, were you - that perfect soul-mate??

And why the long face? It did not work out, I guess.

Just your bad Naseeb, I suppose!

bjhumar

Love you as I might, but I can`t help feeling that you are being very unfair to hamidm.

Genes don`t determine nations. Feelings and mindsets do.

Besides, in criticising ntsyed, you failed to show that there are two Islams. You distinguished between two groups of people - ``the former are those...,`` ``the latter are those...``

Ntsyed himself would readily agree that there are all kinds of people out there.

#207 by hamidm2
#206 by kaalchakra

As these two passages from an Iranian site show, we are much closer to Iranians…

``a seemingly typical day in Georgetown. I make a stop at Zara and as I wait in the queue for the fitting room, my ear detects presence of a Persian accent, reminiscent of relatives who`ve been in America for 20 years but still put ``E`` before ``S`` when followed by a consonant (ess-tore, ess-kool, ess-top) or who refuse to acknowledge ``W`` as an actual letter in the English language, opting rather for ``V`` (vaat do you vaant). ``vaat does she luk like? Vaat does she do? Vaay you don`t bering her out?``

“Iranians inside the country are facing many economic, political and cultural difficulties. A nation with 2500 years of history still does not know what to wear in its own country without facing prosecution. It does not obey even the simplest traffic rules properly and it even can not stand in a simple line when it wants to buy a piece of bread or attending the bank without violating other people`s rights.

For those who have not ever been on Iran and they have always seen the country through historical books and articles, Iran is a glamorous country with a great nation. But this belief can easily fade out once they meet the country in very first moments of their arrival in Tehran airport and they see how disorganized, aggressive and sometimes rude and inconsiderate this great nation behaves on streets of the capital or even in the airport. Our history is filled with numerous records of mismanagement, inexperience, unprofessionalism from the highest level of the ruling regimes down to the lay people. In other word, story has always been the same, only characters have changed.”

I am working on an article that would show that Pakistan has a legit claim over the (current) Iranian Balochistan and we should take over that with the American help… :)

#various Hamidm2

Mian H2, looks like you are big on maps!

I got one suggestion for you!

Go get a map of your genes - and compare it with that of the Indians - I bet there will be a lot closer match than any of the other jokers you choose to suck booze with! And THAT map was done by the ultimate Mapmaker!

Yeah!

As far as the ``feeling comfortable`` factor is concerned - if one has the right attitude oneself toward others, one can be comfortable with 99 percent of the world`s population - and the remaining one percent is not worth it! I have no doubt that you could be equally comfortable with truck drivers in Bihar - with or without the intoxicants!

Just as long as you don`t practice that ``exclusive`` mindset!

It is one thing if a Mullah practices it - they don`t know any better and perhaps lack the right education. But there is absolutely no excuse when ``educated`` folks start practising the same and start making up stuff to justify it!

The criminal Jinnah will never benefit from ANY extenuating circumstances! And his adherents should feel free to go singing that bhajan I constructed in #139 just for such folks!