Caste, Reservations and Indian Muslims

>>>>>Theologically Islam, Christianity, Buddhism and Sikhism are known to be egalitarian faiths. This was in contrast to Hinduism, where there was social stratification based on caste and discrimination in the form of untouchability was practised against individuals belonging to the lowest rung of this caste-based hierarchy<<<<<<<

Salil Bhai,
In an otherwise decent/ excellent article did you have to write this? Perhaps Chowk management required you to write such bigotry to have your article published?

Progressive Indians belonging to all faiths are embarrassed and concerned about such evils. By your own description in this article casteism is a societal evil that afflicts India, and religious conversions have not solved this problem.


Based on what theology, what books do Hindus practice evil casteism? Do the Hindus refresh their theological moorings every day by reviewing Manu Smirthi and then get out to unleash casteism?


…. the same way Muslims practice caste discrimination after acquiring strong theological moorings in Koran?..........



Pakis are a different story. You should kindly write things that will promote respect and harmony around Charminar. We have a great future together :-)

Regards,

I used to live near Charminar area in Hyderabad. How about reservations for Hindus there? Mr. Salil, also, I don`t recall being treated like an equal by the muslims there. And, I remember the fiery speeches during the annual Urs`

``Theologically Islam, Christianity, Buddhism and Sikhism are known to be egalitarian faiths. This was in contrast to Hinduism, where there was social stratification based on caste and discrimination in the form of untouchability was practised against individuals belonging to the lowest rung of this caste-based hierarchy``

Salil,
What a great way to gain credibility among your target audience?

People supposedly converted from Hinduism to ``escape`` caste system. So caste based reservations should not apply to other religions.

Now coming to the issue of reservations based on Minority religions, this is another classic example of ``anti-Hindu`` policies in India. We are being doomed to live like second class citizens in our own country.

Besides, there are so many practical issues:

1) Why apply it on a national level and not on State level? Can we have minority reservations for Hindus in J&K or Mizoram?

2) How do you define a minority religion? (If I create a new religion and declare myself ``Non-Hindu``, can I get reservations?)

To summarize, No reservations based on religion. Period.

Rgds,
Avkrishna

Re: # 3

Sanjay,

Regarding Hinduism, we are still essentially a monotheistic religion. Multiple divinities are presented as different aspects of the same God and multiple names are given for the same God. Hence, whichever deity you pray, you are still reaching God albeit through a different path. This is the basic philosophy of Smarta Hinduism. A true polytheistic faith would be that of the Ancient Greeks.

[...Indian Muslims have been in a disadvantagious position. Because, they do not have any State or Province in India where they are in majority...]

They are a majority in 1 state - that of Jammu & Kashmir - besides numerous towns and districts in various other states, notably Kerala.

As far as reservations are concerned, I agree with you that Indian Muslims need to be given reservations out of the existing reservations, and without increasing the total amount of reservations. However, I`m also intrigued by Salil`s opinion that reservations should be given based on economic status. Attempting to classify ``Dalit Muslims`` is not such a great idea, as it will fracture Islam further.

Time for the mullahs to stop preaching gibberish about jihad and instead focus their energies on exposing and altering the blasphemous and discriminatory practices among the Indian Muslim ``upper classes``

``Muslims of India have gained the dubious distinction of sustaining a highly prejudiced and devious system of social stratification. The community would do itself a great favour by purging this evil from within its character.``

I wholeheartedly agree -- with the only stipulation that BaRay Bhai Pleeez Pahle Aap.... chotay bhai Jumman MiaN will definitely follow in the footsteps of their Barkay Bhaiyya ji......:)

Ranjit:

That was pretty funny ...and also really sad.

Salil: I think you have the typical middle class view that most Indians, regardless of caste or religion share. Welcme to the club. You can however keep beating the drum of your truly sensible ideas and the political establuishment will continue to ignore you simply because you have no voice. The middle class of India, barring some time specific exceptions, is by and large homogenous in political thought, and ``napunsak`` or impotent in political action.

Quite enlightening, this writeup..

[...There should be only one criterion for providing reservation and that should be the economic status of an individual here....]

Yep....

In the natural world, there is no such thing as equality..........so called `equal` religions are in name only......

Hinduism has got it right..........

A good article but unfortunately it remained a theoretical discussion. In order to establish that there is a well defined caste system among Indian Muslims, more data of life is needed that just the report of denial of a burial spot. I urge Salil to present the relationship of masjids to this caste institution even if it is probably totally informal. There have to be guiding publications which below the Koran level provide basis for directions for this mode of life. Are there local Indian Hadiths or something similar to them?

My personal view on reservations is that they ought to be deemphasized now in India than expanded. People have been provided enough time to help themselves with this special tool Free India provided. Govt of India should declare that in next twenty five years all reservations will be dispensed with. This naturally should be done gradually and in steps.

The underprivileged should be supported via educational support rather than reservations in jobs.

Ref ranjit #1

{[...In fact incidents of backward or lower caste Muslims being denied entry for burial in graveyards by the upper caste Muslims, forcing the lower caste Muslims to bury their dead outside the graveyard have been reported from Bihar!...]

Three cheers for Biharis on being able to do something that hinduism and other religions failed to do for 1000 years. They have managed to turly assimilate muslims with all the trappings of caste system that Bihar is so famous for. It must be somthing in the water that Biharis drink!! Everyone`s IQ drops by half, no matter what religion/race/ethnicity they belong to.}

By embracing Islam, their IQ dropped by half. Don`t blame the Ganges which flows through Bihar.

There are two issues involved in the subject.

One is the reservation for all Indian Muslims and the second one is reservations for some Indian Muslims.

Since the author has talked about the second one i.e. for ``some`` Indian Muslims, let us first look into it.

The biggest strength of Islam since its revelation had been its concept of equality of all human beings before Allah. This single attribute has attracted more people into the folds of Islam(and continues to do so even today) than any other. Now if this aspect of Islam is to be broken up by intoduction of a de-facto ``caste`` by an authority none other than the State , may be due to economic or whatever reason, sooner or later it will break other aspects of Islam also. Today it may be ``caste``, tommorrow it will be images, then statues, then idols, then various shapes and form of a monotheist God etc. etc. This will lead to Hinduisation of Islam, nothing else. In its original form Hinduism is also Monotheist, it believes in imageless, formless ,omnipresent Single God called Ishwar, Parmatma or Bhagwan. In its pure form, God does not have any name either , it only has rememberance through the word ``OM``. But see what it has become now.

So, any reservation on the basis of Indian Muslim ``caste``, whatever it may mean, should be avoided. It will do nothing but simply rupture Indo-Islam. Needless to say, the results can be catastrophic.

The second point is reservation for all Indian Muslims on the basis of their minority status. This aspect can be looked into. No doubt that after partition, Indian Muslims have been in a disadvantagious position. Because, they do not have any State or Province in India where they are in majority, The majority provinces of Undivided India have become Pakistan and Bangladesh. Let us not discuss the Partition here and move on to Indian Muslims. Some kind of reservation, I feel, can be granted to Indian Muslims as a whole provided it does not lead to increase in the already establshed reserved quota for SC/ST etc.. A separate additional quota for Indian Muslims will lead to a severe backlash from Hindus, we must accept that, just as the current debate over Hindu OBCs quota is raging in the country.

In this regard, the states may empowered to decide on the areas where they can provide reservations to Muslims ,out of the overall quota of SCs/STs etc. For example ,in Medical and Engineering Colleges, there is no point in giving admissions to 35-40% securing SCs/STs etc. It would be much better if these seats are provided to 75-90% securing Indian Muslims. It is not that Indian Muslims cannot secure 90+%, but they may be some time to stabilise. Further, as we grow up as nation, the majority has to ensure that the minorities are also doing well.

My personal view is that Indian Muslims as a whole do need a support from the State and they may be given some reservation out of already given quota (i.e. not additional quota) and the states may be empowered to distribute the fixed quota to various disadvantaged groups including Indian Muslims.

For some reason, adherents of the Islamic faith pat their backs endlessly.

``made them convert to faiths like Islam, Christianity, Buddhism and Sikhism, which treated all its followers equally``

-- Why don`t these religions, Islam in particular treat all human beings as equals ? If Hinduism is discriminatory, why is that Hindus believe in Vasudhaika Kutumbam?

``At a theoretical level the non-Hindu faiths mentioned above were equalitarian``

-- Every Abdul, Ghouse, and Waseem says that. Islam is NOT ``equalitarian``. If it is indeed egalitarian in theory but maynot be in practice, why DOESN`T any of you ``Islamic scholars`` extend the same privilege to Hinduism?

``The dichotomy between the extreme egalitarianism advocated by the Holy Qur’an and its practice by Muslims of India needs to be emphasised``

-- You might wanna be a little bit more honest in your assertions.

[...In fact incidents of backward or lower caste Muslims being denied entry for burial in graveyards by the upper caste Muslims, forcing the lower caste Muslims to bury their dead outside the graveyard have been reported from Bihar!...]

Three cheers for Biharis on being able to do something that hinduism and other religions failed to do for 1000 years. They have managed to turly assimilate muslims with all the trappings of caste system that Bihar is so famous for. It must be somthing in the water that Biharis drink!! Everyone`s IQ drops by half, no matter what religion/race/ethnicity they belong to.