Awaaz Dey KahaaN Hay

Lyrics are to a composed song, what script is to a movie.

Among the trio,it is Shakeel all the way on top but business is ruthlessly democratic, and rightfully so. So we all bow our heads, in submission, as an admission of our frailities & the not-knowing ones.

``Jisay bujaa kahay dunyaa, usay bujaa samjho
zubaan-i khalque ko naqqaraa-i khuda samjho``


Songs of the lyric-stalwarts like shakeel, sahir, majrooh, ravinder Jain, Vyas, kaifi, Arzoo, Fayyaz Hashmi & & &... by any music director have seldom bombed...but then it requires a non-banyaa brain to understand all that.

swarrier#56:

Hemant Kumar`s ``Itna na mujh se tu pyaar badha, kay main ik baadal awaara`` is actually a plagiarisation of a Bach composition. [believe it or not!].

Mannyd#27, 29:

You are right about Hemant Kumar`s song for Naushad - that most melodious lullaby ``Chandan ka Palna`` with Lata in the film Shabab. I thing that was perhaps the only time Hemant sang for Naushad. I think Manna Dey also probably sang for the only time for Naushad in the same film - a bhajan ``Bhagat kay bas mein hain bhagwan, maango milega sab ko daan``.

Regarding Majrooh being ``kafir``, I had read somewhere in an article on Majrooh, which did not surprise me as he, Sahir, Sardar Jaafri, Kaifi Aszmiu, Jaan Nissar Akhtar, Akhtar, Manto and the whole lot of them ``taraqi-pasand`` poets were Marxism-oriented. Incidentally, the same article also mentioned that the two made up in later life and indeed became each other`s ``samdhis`, with Majrooh`s son marrying Naushad`s daughter (or the other way round).

Regarding wedding songs, the general rule was to have ``Raaja ki aayegi baraat`` when the wedding party arrived and play the Shamshad song at the time of the departure of baraat, doli.

echoboom:

You may be on to something about Naushad`s dependence on Ghulam Mohammad. Incidentally, GM`s best music was perhaps in Mirza Ghalib and he tended to prefer Talat over Rafi.

Re: # 55
Banjara Sahib and HP
To continue in this vein let us take the example of W A Mozart, one of the greatest western classical music composers. For every great composition he has a few that are eminently forgettable. Do you know why? Because he had to compose music for people to eat and dine and dance to. It is difficult to take inspiration from the muse when one has to compose for people who are wondering whether the sauerkraut will taste good with the sausage or with the mutton.
Also hit songs are not necessarily the best of a composers ouvre.

Re: # 57

HP
It is a question of taste. Naushad was an excellent music director and with a lot of good songs to his credit. I would not rate him among my top three music directors. With some exceptions his music was relatively predictable, though very melodious. Sometimes one yearns for a complexity in rythm and melody which was not too apparent in Naushad`s compositions. Most of his compositions were simple and very wholesome. And yet one does not tire of listening to them. That was his greatness.

Re: # 38

Khurram
Thank you for pointing out the error. I was mistaken about the identities then. I believed it was the same Ghulam Haider. I have not heard a lot of Pakistani singers (with the exception of Mehdi Hassan, Ghulam Ali and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan) and when I read about her being the daughter of Ghulam Haider on the notes on one of her recordings I assumed it was the same person because I had read that the music director Ghulam Haider also hailed from Sind.

Re: # 37
Mannyd
Of course I was joking when I compared Beethoven`s quintet in E flat major with ``O duniya ke rakhwaale``. There is no relation between the two compositions. I was gently pulling HP`s leg. I am sure that you realised that too.

Banjara,

Plagiarism is a rampant problem in Indian movies. I think wiki has some info on that and there is some on usenet out there too. My interest in Indian movies is limited and I think it is truly a waste of time for me to dig up that info and post it here.

``Naushad Ali scored in 67 films, out of which 3 were Diamond jubilee, 9 were Golden jubilee and 26 were Silver jubilee films.``

I don`t know what you mean by golden or silver jubilee. If this means how successful those movies were then that credit should go to multiple people and not to Naushad alone. But if you mean that his songs or numbers were silver jubilees or golden jubilees then you really have to explain what does that mean in terms of number charts.

Binaca Geetmala of Amin Siani which later became cibbela (or similar) geetmala used to keep track of songs popularity. How many of Naushad`s songs made that list?

I rate success based on how many of his songs were actually popular (not the movies) and how many never made it beyond the theatres. So my estimate is that he had about 100 hit songs out of perhaps 500. The others were not heard beyond a few weeks in the theatres.

What abt the background music that he composed? He got only one film fair award. I think in the old days the award was based more on the background music than on the songs compositions.

I don’t wanna sound too critical as he was one of the better composers in India but the murmur abt some of his compositions is out there too.

Banjaara Sahib #55,
Thank you for putting Mr. HP in his place for his insidious remarks about the late genius, Naushad Ali. With that, I will not bother you or your thread with what someone has called a ``one pony show.`` I never realized that some members of the Paki majority regard the suffering of hundreds of thousands of fellow humans and (Muslim humans at that!) as a ``pony show.`` I added the words ``Muslim humans`` to appeal to their selective sense of compassion. How often we hear them cry about ``poor`` Muslims in Kashmir, Palestine, and Iraq?

Nevertheless, thank you for noting Mr. HP`s tasteless attempt to malign a deceased maestro - I am sure that he did it because Naushad hailed from Lucnow, UP, India.

HP #22

Two of your points quoted below are interesting. While you generalize and call Indian artists “talent-less hacks”, which is a serious charge and needs proof but in the same breath you mention - Now I cannot give specifics because I think it is waste of time for me to work on that project but the obvious don’t need any proof either. Do you expect to be taken seriously after what you said?

The second point you raised specifically against Naushad Ali is:

“His success was also dependent on good poetry and good singing. It may sound strange to his blind followers here that his numbers w/o some quality poet and quality singers never made it to the top. So he can at best share the credits with some other people for the best efforts.”

Naushad Ali scored in 67 films, out of which 3 were Diamond jubilee, 9 were Golden jubilee and 26 were Silver jubilee films. Which gives him a success ratio of 57 percentile which may not be very high in your estimation but in a risky venture like Hindi Movies it was considered extremely high by his peers, producers and directors. It was due to this success rate that his name was mentioned before the hero and heroine, because his name alone was considered a guarantee for a successful film.

#52, Banjara {``I know what I am saying because I was there and lost relatives and properties``}

Sounds like ``I got mine, the hell with you.``

Banjaara {``Lata being a Maharashtrian, her Urdu diction and delivery was far from ideal for a perfectionist like him. He personally sat with her for hours and coached her till her diction, delivery and accent was perfect.``}

Banjaara Sahib,
Too bad that Naushad didn`t stay in Pakistan. He could have done wonders with that atrocious Punjabi accent that butchers Urdu like none other - as noted by DM Sahib quite recently. I have noticed that the legacy of speaking Urdu with perfect diction and delivery is alive and well in today`s Bollywood and even TV soap operas in India. Compared to this diligence, the Pakistani movies and TV, with their total ignorance of Urdu diction, turn comedies into tragedies and vice versa.

I am dismayed at the antics of some of the interactors on this thread which was opened to bid farewell to a genius.I would respectfully request them to please take their agenda elsewhere. I can safely say that the problems of Biharis will not be solved on the threads of Chowk. I know what I am saying because I was there and lost relatives and properties. Please stop this soapbox oratory, no one is hoodwinked by anyone.

haider5 # 23
Ghulam Mohammed was assistant to Nausahd Ali for many years and his films included:

1. Amber (1952) 2. Dil-e-Nadan (1953) and 3. Pakeezah (1971).

Ghulam Haider scored for many more successful films, both in Lahore and Bombay.His first film was A.R.Kardar’s Swarg ki SeeRhi made in Lahore in 1935. But he became famous with the Punjabi film Gul Bakawli released in 1939, in which he also introduced Baby Noorjahan whose Shala Jawaniyan Mane and Pinjre de vich qaid jawani were instant hits all over Punjab. His biggest hit was Khazanchi completed in 1941 and thereafter, he moved to Bombay in 1943-44 and scored music for Chal Chal re Naujawan (1944), Phool (1944), Humayun (1945), Bairam Khan (1946), Shama (1946), Majboor (1948), he introduced Lata Mangeshkar in this film, Padmini, Barsat ki aik Raat, PatjhaR and Shaheed, all made in 1948. His last film in India was Kaneez, released in 1949 after which he migrated to Pakistan. In Lahore he formed Filmsaz with Nazir Ajmeri and S. Gul. And produced Gulnaar in 1953, which was a flop. He died in 1954 aged 45 years.

PS: Wikipedia wrongly mentions him to be the father of Abida Parveen, the great sufi singer of Pakistan. Her father Master Ghulam Haider was a classical singer and had a Music school where he taught vocal and instrumental music to children.

Naushad and Ghulam Muhammed

Does someone know about the dependence of Naushad on GM. I have always wondered why no good music came out of Naushad after Pakeeza.

or is it that I`m not aware of that music?

Most of the Filmi Museequar`s of India were shamelessly plagiarists; but then they were music directors & NOT composers. Naushad was a composer; but the top most original was Sajjad Hussain. Both Noor Jehan (an acknowledged sangeet-viddya herself) and Lata were in awe of him. They also felt very proud to work for him , despite being ``terrorised`` & ``humiliated`` by him.

just to nudge the conversation along.

#48 by Salim_Chauhan

Jaipuri Pinocchio,

Just show me where I mentioned Naushad’s roots.

Chowk is not a place for writing obituaries. This is a place to discuss different aspects of issues or personal accomplishment.
Don`t runaway from your lies by writing inane. Your drivels can’t hide the fact that the foot size in your mouth grows by an inch every time you lie.

Right now you just sound like Pinocchio.

one group truly feeling the loss are the singing beggars in the bombay suburban trains. while the lesser singers sing ``pardesi pardesi jana nahin``, old-time surdas blind beggars consider ``o duniyan ke rakhwale`` as the top begging song (Garinbo ki Suno second and Shirdiwale Saibaba a distant third). a late 11 PM train with many a late-working commuter, a quarter of rum in their belly enjoy it and pay good tips.