Awaaz Dey KahaaN Hay

HP #43, {``Where did I say anything abt Naushad`s roots in post #22?
It is your jaundiced eyes that see inference in every thing people write. Plagiarism is a serious issue in Indian movie Industry and has nothing to do with where people come from. I never mentioned Naushad or any one’s roots. ``}

HP,
Your obviously racist dilution of Naushad`s accomplishments were not even thinly disguised from your predictable hatred of all things from UP and Urdu-speaking Hindustan. Even Mannyd noticed your badmouthing of Naushad. Enjoy:


{``#29 by mannyd on May 8, 2006 8:18am PT
#28: LOL.. HP badmothing Naushad Ali is like a coyote howling at the moon. I guess Sain HP is just trying too hard to prove that UPites and Biharis are less civilized than Sindhis, but he can not come up with any well thought out reasoning. ``}

#44, Echoboom {``you might get a better ear from others ...``}

Echo Bhai,
It is NOT about my getting a better ear, rather about the ``stranded`` Pakis getting better treatment from THEIR own country and THEIR own compatriots. Instead of trying to muzzle me, sincere Pakistanis should be petitioning THEIR government to do the right thiing. Just try to imagine, what would the Holy Prophet (PBUH) have done?

Salim_Chauhan:42

The respect can become mutual and you might get a better ear from others as well if you allow them some space.

Otherwise, please carry on. It was not intimidation but simply sincere advice from an elder.

thanks.

#41

Where did I say anything abt Naushad`s roots in post #22?

It is your jaundiced eyes that see inference in every thing people write. Plagiarism is a serious issue in Indian movie Industry and has nothing to do with where people come from. I never mentioned Naushad or any one’s roots.

In my subsequent post in reply to your drivel, I just mentioned that people like Naushad excelled against the odds while some just left to later badmouth the opportunities provided to them.

Mannyd examples are of individual cases and they really do not mean a whole lot to the point that I made.

Echoboom,
While I respect you considerably as an individual and a Chowk contributor and we often have a commonality of views, I cannot allow you to intimidate me. You cannot stop me or anyone else from speaking out against the racist, myopic, and bankrupt policies of the Pakistani government and its majority ethnic group in denying repatriation to Pakistani citizens. I know that it is inconvenient, embarrassing, and possibly annoying (as mentioned by another Chowkie hailing from Punjab) to some, but it needs to be repeated. This has to continue until the injustice is rectified and the misery for these twice-wronged people is ended. Thank you for your understanding.

#40, NO.

Ask HP not to attack a dead music director just because he hailed from Lucknow. Is there no shame left in you ``PISSER-E-ZAMEEN?`` Must you be so blatantly racist? For you it may be a one-pony show, for 250,000 ``stranded`` Muslims it is daily misery. So much for your phony Islamic crap.

Salim_Chauhan!

may I politely ask you to fcuk off, and take your one-pony show to a more appropriate board.

thank you.

Mannyd #36 {``I do not inderstand your criteria for real people v/s ghosts. Pakistan was supported and nurtured in Aligarh University by Muslim intellectuals from all Indian states. ...We in USA are grateful for the opportunity, but I would like my grandchildren to decide what they would like to do.
...It is good to know that you have nothing against Punjabis, but Bihari Muslims went through the same fate in 1946. Their blood stained clothes, chappals and gunny-sacks full of skulls were used by ML in NWFP and Punjab to rally support for ML and bring down the Tiwana ministery. Biharis in Bengla Desh were true Pakistanis, who were first killed by Bihari Hindus, then by Bengali Muslims and now abandoned by guardians of Pakistaniyat. That Bihari fathers have to sell their daughters to Arab Sheiks or see them work in Bomaby brothels is a shame and a Laahanat on Pakistan, TNT, Bengla Desh and even India. Any how the subject is off topic and I could never convince you if and where Salim failed.
India is surely grateful for Naushad, Rafi, Majrooh, Shakeel and Mehboob Khans and we have no hesitation to share their work with our cousins. ``}

Manny Bhai,
Thank you for stating so crisply and so undeniably the case for justice and compassion. Regardless of which side we are on, TNT or not, the fact remains that these unfortunate people suffered twice and longer than any other victims of the evils of partition. I salute you for not only understanding the issue, crystallizing it for people like Tahmed, Behram1, and HP, but also for shining the spotlight of ``laanat`` on their hypocritical positions. Thank you, my respect for you keeps multiplying. You reflect the true Islamic spirit of generosity and egalitarianism more than the so-called Muslims who say that they are the ``Pisser-e-Zameen.``

Re #33,

Abida Parveen`s father, Ustad Ghulam Haider, a Pakistani vocalist, should not be confused with Master Ghulam Haider, the famous music director.

Master Ghulam Haider died in 1953. Abida Parveen was born in 1954 and studied under her father while growing up.

Re: # 38

Khurram
Thank you for pointing out the error. I was mistaken about the identities then. I believed it was the same Ghulam Haider. I have not heard a lot of Pakistani singers (with the exception of Mehdi Hassan, Ghulam Ali and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan) and when I read about her being the daughter of Ghulam Haider on the notes on one of her recordings I assumed it was the same person because I had read that the music director Ghulam Haider also hailed from Sind.

Swarrier #35: ``Naushad actually lifted ``O duniya ke rakhwale`` from Beethoven`s Quintet for ``Piano and five wind instruments in E-Flat major``. ``

PLEASE, make some hint oh master, for us gullible types that you are joking. I`ll buy anything when you go into technical jargon like that.

Re: # 37
Mannyd
Of course I was joking when I compared Beethoven`s quintet in E flat major with ``O duniya ke rakhwaale``. There is no relation between the two compositions. I was gently pulling HP`s leg. I am sure that you realised that too.

DM #24: The quwali, you mentioned, was not composed by naushad Ali accoeding to the following info from
http://www.indianmelody.com/old1940s2.htm
Aahen Na Bharin Zeenat
Singer: Noor Jehan & Zohrabai Ambalawali, Music: Hafiz
It could be wrong info though.
The SurDas MeeraBai Bhajans were of course there even in the thirties, specially with all the Bengali talent like KC Dey(Manna Dey`s uncle), Pankaj Mallick etc.

Banjaara #21: In Babul, another Lucknow Bhaiyaa Talat Mahmood was the lead singer with Rafi just doing an Aalaap at the end in the song `Nadi Kinare`. Of course Naushad`s coaching of Lata`s diction would have helped her Urdu, but she was already well established in Barsat(1948?). She was shrewd enough to demand to sing for all female actresses in that movie. The money probably was just a few hundred Rupees per song.

HP #30: I do not inderstand your criteria for real people v/s ghosts. Pakistan was supported and nurtured in Aligarh University by Muslim intellectuals from all Indian states. They and many others were fired to move to Pakistan for ideologcal reasons or maybe even economic reasons. Why does it bind their progeny in perpetuity for being grateful for your kindness to allow them into Pakistan? We in USA are grateful for the opportunity, but I would like my grandchildren to decide what they would like to do.

Naushad Ali stayed on in India. I think he tried Pakistan for a while but came back again. By contrast Habib Wali Mohammad, who sang Zafar`s Ghajals or Ghazals, as the case maybe, moved to Karachi with some family still in Bombay and Hyderabad. Is he really less real than Naushad?

It is good to know that you have nothing against Punjabis, but Bihari Muslims went through the same fate in 1946. Their blood stained clothes, chappals and gunny-sacks full of skulls were used by ML in NWFP and Punjab to rally support for ML and bring down the Tiwana ministery. Biharis in Bengla Desh were true Pakistanis, who were first killed by Bihari Hindus, then by Bengali Muslims and now abandoned by guardians of Pakistaniyat. That Bihari fathers have to sell their daughters to Arab Sheiks or see them work in Bomaby brothels is a shame and a Laahanat on Pakistan, TNT, Bengla Desh and even India. Any how the subject is off topic and I could never convince you if and where Salim failed.

India is surely grateful for Naushad, Rafi, Majrooh, Shakeel and Mehboob Khans and we have no hesitation to share their work with our cousins.

Obviously HP is right.
Naushad actually lifted ``O duniya ke rakhwale`` from Beethoven`s Quintet for ``Piano and five wind instruments in E-Flat major``. Beethoven was well versed in raga Darbari which he learnt from his Greek teacher since the Greeks knew everything about the natural music scale and the use of 22 microtones in an octave, and hell what do those Indians know even about their music.
Of course there is the minor matter of using a semitone between the 2nd and 3rd notes of Darbari and a whole tone between F and G in the scale of E flat major ....... but I digress. -)

#33 by swarrier
``I was pleasantly surprised to find out that Abida Parveen is Ghulam Haider`s daughter.``

I did not know that..are you sure you are talking abt Abida Parveen the Sindhi singer from Larkana or someone else. Generally, I don`t kep tabs on someone`s parents...

Jaipuri,

Only the economic reasons count.....

HP #30, {``I have nothing against the honorable people who stayed back in their homeland and excelled in different fields some ``inspiration`` was helpful but mostly they were the real people.
People who left without any cause and reason for just the economic gains should be grateful that they were given opportunity by the locals to improve their standards of living.``}

HP,
I have heard that many of those from Urdu-speaking heartland went to Pakistan to help their Muslim ``brethren,`` who had been supposedly suffering under Hindu and Sikh zamindars. There were exaggerated tales of Sindhi Muslims having to keep their girls as ransom for loans with the Hindu nobility. Honestly, this kind of emotional propaganda was used my Muslim League to garner support for partition.