Awaaz Dey KahaaN Hay

#159 by swarrier

Thanks for reminisces. Are these not the collective treasures of us all?

Insaaf kaa mandir
This had a similar effect on me. It is like Juma khutba by a learned maulana.

By the way, the movie Amar has a very good script & is quite a moving story. A bit very un-typical Indian movie & yet a great hit both as art and as business. Our misfortune because of our colonised mindset is that we look down upon our ``masses`` & think of ourselves somewhat superior to them. I`m glad that I discovered that it is I who is at the wrong end.

When was the last time you saw the word ``masses`` used for people & the word ``uneducated`` used so liberaly in the land of the colonisers & Imperialists for their own folk (where 60% cannot read!)

Echoboom, Zeemax DM et al
A long time ago when I was coming home after work (in Bombay) I was walking past a Muncipal school near my flat and on the street in front of the school was a large dustbin. An old man was collecting scraps from it and putting it in his sack. He was humming this tune when I walked past him. I still remember the scene, and while reading posts from another article on this site I thought I would put the song up here. Strangely enough it is composed by Naushad and it is from the film Ganga Jamuna. It is a touching little melody, simple enough but beautiful. Even though some of us become cynical as we grow older it is good for children to keep some ideals alive.

http://www.indianscreen.com/mp3/GungaJamuna_1962-Hemant&Co-InsaafKIDagarPe-Shakeel_Naushad.mp3

While we are still here lets enjoy this:

The Lyrics are so beautifully tied to the situation ( Ive not seen movie but I can ``sense`` it). How the feelings of lov conveyed in an oblique way. The metaphors of moon, badal & lehr for face, hair, and emotions need closer listening. Kaheen kaa deepak kaheen kee baati, the `distance` between to lovers like the sun illuminating the moon.

aikh chaan kee ore

If link doesn`t work then Copy/paste: go to properties by right-clicking the link.

Re: # 157
Lovely song, The only film that Ram Ganguly did for Raj Kapoor I think.

#155 by dost-mittar

bohut khoob!

a little fix:

Umr upnee toa kaTi ishque-i buutaaN meiN, Momin
aakhree vaqt mein kya khaak musalmaaN hongay.

notice how the takhaluus MOMIN has embellished & added meaning to the shair.

and Iqbal said ( visiting Masjid-e Quartaba--his masterpiece poem in Urdu)

``Kafir-i Hindi hooN meiN, daikh mira zauque-O-Shauqe
Dil meiN Salaat-O durood, Lubb pey salaat-O-durood.``

and Jagan Nath Azad too was passionately humming this shair when he , in the footsteps of Iqbal, visited that Masjid--to pay homage to Iqbal. Iqbal, had given the Azan in that masjid where the last azaan was almost 700 years ago.

echoboom:

Umr saari tau katti ishq-e-buttaaN mein
Aakhiri umr mein kya khaak MusalmaaN hongay :)

....but for a Hindu, there is always the ``agla janam``. :)

#153 by dost-mittar

``achhee soorat bhhee kyaa buuree shai hai
jiss nay daali, buuri nazar daalee``

Ishquekaa toa naam yooN hee muft meiN bdnaam hai
husn khuud baitaab hai, jalvaa dikhhanay jay liyay.

subb jagaa Usee kay jalvay haiN, usee kee leela hai, aur niyatoaN kaa haal vohee jaanta hai.

bhaee aap hUm sey kaheeN behtar musalmaan haiN. Ubb aap oath naa laiN toa hUm kyaa kraiN.

echoboom#152:

Are you sure? I thought that Allah puts a lot of emphasis on niyat. And He knows even when you are visually violating someone.

Allah rewards even those who lusted in their hearts but just did not have the courage to go through with it.

So it is for NOT doing, rather than doing something.:)

W`Allah Alim bil Ghaib [Only Allah knows what is hidden (to man)]

#147 by majumdar

As per Hindu belief a soul has to pass through 84 lakh yonis (or life forms) before he becomes a human

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#148 by dost-mittar
ohmigod! I thought 84 lakh yonis would bring moksha

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haHAHAH haaa....
I very very happy with the four yonis strongly prescribed for me;and yet I need no Moksha.

Even better stuff lies in wait for me across the great divide. Adressing them:
`` Voh vaqt miri jaan bohut dooor naheeN hai``

Re: # 150

[Even better stuff lies in wait for me across the great divide.]

Do you mean 72 ``yonis`` there? What have you done to deserve them?

majumdar#147:

ohmigod! I thought 84 lakh yonis would bring moksha; now you tell me that this number merely brings one into human form. So, how many more does one have to go through to achieve moksha, presuming one does want moksha? (I`m not sure about myself!).

Re: 142/143

Vishnu`s touch while it pushed Mahabali into netherworld ( or pataal-lok of which he became the ruler) also made him one of the seven immortals. Some legends also say that Vishnu gave him the boon of being the Indra of the next cycle of the Universe.

Evolution does not seem to be incompatible with the Hindu scheme of things. As per Hindu belief a soul has to pass through 84 lakh yonis (or life forms) before he becomes a human.

Regards

I just found out the name ofthe leadgirl in Eeshwar:

Vijayashanti.

What an accomplished actress& dancer. I also learned that she got the best actress award for that movie 1989( Filmfare)

Listen to the number: Buj uthha ssansoan meiN--good music, very good lyrics. But to really appreciate it one has to watch the dance-song. I believe she is better than Vijantymala as a dancer.

ignore the previous post: this is the emended one.

Coming back to the Naushad/ Ghulam Muhammad riddle, can anyone elicit me any composition which was even a mediocre hit after Pakeeza?

I know for a fact that the Gunga Jumuna poorbi song, Nain lURr jaeeN was already a poorbi Qawwali, the tune of which too was probably adapted from an already existing ``earthy`` geet.

I am curious to know this because this mailaise of `brownie colonialism` where `paRRhay Likhays` have been robbing the ``red Indians`` of Indo-Pak has been running rampant. This extinction of folk-geniuses, a phenomena which I term as a ^devastation of cultural ecology^ needs to be addressed.

Coming back to the Naushad/ Ghulam Muhammad riddle, can anyone elicit me any composition which was even a mediocre hit after Pakeeza?

I know for a fact that the Gunga Jumuna poorbi song, Nain lURr jaeeN was already a poorbi Qawwali, the tune of which too was probably adapted from an already existing ``earthy`` geet.

I am curious to know this becausethis mailaise of `brownie colonialism` where `paRRhay Likhays` have been robbing the ``red Indians`` of Indo-Pak. This extinctionof folk-geniuses, a phenomena which I term as a needs to be addressed.

Re: # 144
Echoboom
If we do not preserve our folk music it is in danger of dying out. In our society folk music was handed down within families or within castes whose occupation amongst others was the creation of music. There are no patrons of this anymore. Every state and region has a wealth of folk music which should at least be recorded for posterity and of course to inspire your brown sahibs.

If not we will never have any record of this treasure. This music will stagnate and die if there is nobody to transform it into a living breathing changing thing.

Imagine , no baul singers in Bengal, no vadakkan paat in Kerala, no abhangs in Marathi, no qawwalis ... to pull out only a few regions.

It has already happened to our classical instruments. After Vinayak Vora I don`t know of any tar shehnai player of repute. Which new surbahar player is there on the horizon? How many rudra veena exponents are present today?

Incidentally speaking of folk music does anybody remember Rafi`s ``pipra ke patwaa sareekhe doley manwa`` composed by Ravi Shankar for the film Godaan?

To come back to Naushad there is a great Lata-Rafi duet in Shabab ``Man ki been matwari baaje``.

swarrier:

I have seen dasavatar performed at stage in both Kathakali and Bharat Natyam, including by Vyjyantimala. I enjoyed it more in the Bharat Natyam, because I still have to learn to enjoy the slow, sylised movements of Kathakali.

When watching das-avatar, one cannot help but be reminded of the Darwin`s theory of evolution.

#140 by swarrier :

I just don`t have words to thank you for this.

My ignorant-innocent enquiry: Could Vaman be the humble small Man, and not really dwarf?
meaning Eeshwar appearing as vaman ( baman?).

I`ll be able to enjoy it even more & with repeat listening & reconfirming reach the ``kunh`` of it... a great arabic word (no equivalent) meaning the root to the ``atomic`` level..where it all starts..

Re: # 141

You are welcome.
Vamana was the name of the brahmin boy. Legends say he was a dwarf so I assumed that would be it. I guess it was to heighten the contrast as he became large. It could be small man too.
Incidentally the state that I come from , we celebrate Mahabali who was pushed down into the Nether world. He was an Asura King. It is our harvest festival. He was a good king but the devas were afraid of him. So they called on Vishnu to get rid of him. But he was given a boon to come back to his people once every year.

swarrier#138:

``This translation does not do justice to the poem especially when you have seen it performed in temples. There is real feeling there.``

We Punjabis do not know much about these feelings, except to some extent in the gurudwaras.

I once visited the Siddhi Vinayak (?) temple in Mumbai and there was an aarti going on for more than half hour during which the entire congregation stood and chanted the aarti. I am not sure if it was in sanskrit or marathi or maybe a combination, but the atmosphere was electric.

Re: # 139
DM
I meant the Kathakali art form and the music accompanying it. I have seen Geeta Govindam performed as such. In Kerala it is normally performed in grounds around temples. Sometimes these dance dramas go on throughout the night. The atmosphere, coupled with the stories that you have heard as a child make it very compelling. You feel some sort of an other worldly presence at times.

I can never stop marvelling at the ingenuity of the human mind. To be able to soar to such levels, with words, with intellect, with art , with science, as to create such a feeling that one can almost have such a belief in a supernatural force.

Echoboom
At the end of the song there is this sloka.
vedan uddharate,
jagan-nivahate,
bhugolam ud-bibhrate
daityam darayatem balim chalayate,
kshatra kshayam kurvate,
poulasyam jayate,
halam kalayate,
karunyam atanvate,
mlechchan murchayate,
dashakruti krute,
Krushnaya tubhyam namaH.

This is Barbara Stoller Miller`s translation. I found this from a post by Neha Desai on RMIM.

For upholding the Vedas,
For supporting the earth,
For raising the world,
For tearing the demon asunder,
For cheating Bali,
For destroying the warrior class,
For conquering Ravana,
For wielding the plow,
For spreading compassion,
For routing the barbarians,
Homage to you, Krishna,
In your ten incarnate forms!

swarrier#135:

Really impressed!

Re: # 136
DM
Thank you. But it is not my work. I used a couple of dictionaries and a translation of the Geeta Govindam itself in parts. The English is mine, I wish I could understand the Sanskrit more. This translation does not do justice to the poem especially when you have seen it performed in temples. There is real feeling there.

#133 by subhashjoshi

One word that I don`t see in hindi is zunoon (passion).

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LOL:
It is Junoon. It is arabic/farsi/urdu

There is a reason for it. :)

Babur has written about it in his memoirs: The climate of Hind is such that it makes one ready to compromise, avoid conflict , and there is this overwhelming desire to surrender to the nearest foe.It tames ones passions.

P.s: written in good humour. No debate solicited here. subject closed. Lets talk music.

#131 by subhashjoshi

well not exactly!

Bhoolna is when you just cannot remember. Bisarna is when you you can recall, if prompted.

what a subtle & elegentl shair:
``Muddatoan guzri tiri yaad bhhee aaee naa hUmeiN
aur hUm bhhool gaeyn hoaN tujhhay; aisaa bhhee naheeN--Firaque Gorakhpoori.

Separate words exist for a reason.

Now there is Khainchnaa (to pull) and then there is Ainchnaa in hindi ( another beautiful concept word , missing in `urdu`/english). Do you know what it means. Banjaara sahib!

Re: # 132


One can say bhoolna has a wider connotation than bisaarna, then I agree. It can stand for bisaarna and also ``total oblivion``. That may be because it is used more commonly.

One word that I don`t see in hindi is zunoon (passion).

128:

anand MaTTHh!

Re: # 130 Echoboom
Okay I have some time. This is a long post. First some background , if you know all this shoot me.
The stanzas are taken from Jaydev`s Geeta Govindam. So it again is about Krishna as the first two lines by Hemant Kumar indicate. This is not part of Geeta Govindam .

Hare muraare madhu kaithaba hare
Gopal govind mukunda shaure (I`m not sure if this is shaure or hare, shauryam in sanskrit is heroism)

The other stanzas deal with 5 of Vishnu`s avataras, of whom Krishna is one though there is no mention of him in Jaydeva`s stanzas. The 8th avatara is Balarama his brother, who wields the plough as his weapon (Haladhar, plough bearer).
In the song you will notice that each time Geeta Dutt sings the refrain the avatara changes as the stanza changes.

The first stanza is
pralaya payodhi jale, dhrutavan asi vedam
vihita vahitra charitram akhedam
keshava, dh^Rta mina sharira, jaya jagadisha hare

(Briefly means , O keshava when the world was deluged with the waters of the primordial oceans you took the form of a fish and brought up the world and upheld the four vedas by floating like a legendary ship on the oceans) .
At this point Geeta Dutt sings ``Keshava dhrita mina sharira , jay jagdeesh hare ``(mina sharira is ``form of a fish)

Second stanza
chalayasi vikramane, balim adbhuta vamana
pada nakha nira janita jana pavana
keshava, dh^Rta vamana rupa, jaya jagadisha hare

Meaning : O Keshava you assumed the form of a dwarfish boy and then became an astounding dwarf encompassing the universe in 3 steps driving Bali to the netherworld and anointing his head with the sacred water from heaves that emerged from your toe-nail)
Geeta now sings `Keshava dhrita vamana rupa, jaya .....(vamana was the name of the dwarf)

Third stanza
vitarasi dikshu rane, dik-pati kamaniyam
dasha-mukha mouli balim ramaniyam
keshava, dh^Rta rama sharira, jaya jagadisha hare

Meaning: O Keshava you took the form of Rama and with the approval of the 10 presiding deities destroyed the 10 headed ravana symmetrically sacrificing (giving him as a sacrifice) him pleasing all.)
Geeta sings Keshava dhrita rama sharira

Fourth stanza
nindasi yajnya vider-ahaha shruti jatam
sadaya hrudaya darshita pashu ghatam
keshava, dh^Rta buddha sharira, jaya jagadisha hare

Meaning : You have assumed the form of the Buddha who being kind hearted finds the vedic ritual sacrifice of animals at fault and even the vedic scriptures themselves doubtful. Hail to thee.

Fifth Stanza
mlechcha nivaha nidhane kalayasi karavalam
dhumaketum iva kimapi karalam
keshava, dh^Rta kalki sharira, jaya jagadisha hare

Meaning: You, in your final avatar as Kalki at the end of the Kali-yuga brandish a sword like a comet to eliminate all the barbarians (mleccha) and your deeds are horrendous to detail.
I have left out Geeta Dutt`s bit in the last two stanzas as she sings the last line always in the foreground.

There are actually other avataras described in other stanzas, that are not in the song, but present in the original poem (the boar, the tortoise, nara-simha, parasu rama, balarama).
Anyway this is a very rough translation and I guess to fully appreciate it you need to know the legends. But the song is sung with great feeling.
If somebody feels this isn`t good enough perhaps they can provide a better translation. I`m done.

RE: #111 by Banjaara

Saint Josephs, Dacca

I left in 1971.

Ras

Swarrier:

Could you , or someone else, give me a good translation of this.
Jai Jagdeesh haray

I had heard it only once several decades ago and it buzzed in my mind in a ``bisraa``*(not bhoola) kind of way. Eventually I tracked it down 5/6 years ago.

* it is such a beautiful word. Uniquely hindi word. `Urdu` or english do not have equivalent or perhaps even the concept. [thought ensconced in slumber in the recesses of memory, but reawakened by an event or odor, sight, or whatever)

Re: # 127
Echoboom
I`ve asked a friend to provide the translation to ``Ghanshyam sundara``. She is a Maharashtrian, so will do a better job than I will. Besides she has the actual lyrics. You`ll have to wait a bit maybe over the weekend.
I cannot hear the links you send on my machine, so I don`t know which is the song you`ve linked up . Is this the one from the film Anand Math or is it the actual aarti that you have sent?
Maybe somebody else can listen to this? I cannot. I use a funny machine with a funny OS at work. It does not allow standard plugins.

Re: # 128

``bisaarna`` is i think same thing as ``bhoolna``- to forget. Like there is this proverb : Beeti tahi bisaar de, aagey kee sudhi ley ``Forget what happened in the past, think of what lies ahead``

Ah Begum Akhtar! Vah Begum Akhtar!

She has yet to be surpassed in Ghazal ``adaaegy``. A ghazal is never ``sung`` and never ever standing--JaGjeet, are you reading this? Mehdi Hasan runs parallel, right to the top with her except that mehdi Hasan, because of his literary limitations, did not understand some of the ghazals which he sang . In a way it could be said that he followed the composers well and produced a very rich as well as diverse body of work. So in a way he deserves more credit rather than less.

The do-shakhaa timbre of the Begum was a treat & she just enthralled with her rare do-kanthhi alaaps. ``Khudaa kay vaastay ubb beiruukhee sey kaam naa lay``; and ``Kuchh toa dunyaa``.. are case in point.

A Note for the Chowk staff:

Thank you for your impersonal note. I hold the copyright. I posted it on my blog http://banjaara.blogspot.com/ and simultaneously submitted it to http://desicritics.org/index.php and www.chowk.com at around 1.30 am in the morning and was surprised to see it on the main page of both sites the next day. It is hard to establish now which site published it first.

If you want to acknowledge Desicritc, I can ask them to acknowledge Chowk. You may contact me at: banjaara1@gmail.com for any further action.

The only change in both articles is ‘temporal’ whom I mentioned by name in the other version.

Thanks.

A Note for the Writer:

It has been brought to my attention that this article has been posted at another blog/website. Please clarify whether you hold the copyright to this material. And if you posted this first on Chowk, then you ought to have given a courtesy credit.

This is the least you can do considering the engaging dialogue that has ensued here.

Thanks in advance.

Echoboom

madan Mohan was a born Iraqui.

LoL .. I guess so ... Iraqi from Jullandar ... yes I get your point.

You know, in my own personal opinion, there has never been another to even touch Master Madan. He was much greater than Punkuj Mullick or K.L. Saigal in his time. The only person who came close was perhaps Ustad Amanat Ali Khan, but not quite. Madan was quite extraordinary.

swarrier,

Rock, Hard Rock, some Country ... basically ...

My specialty was Carlos Santana and Ritchie Blackmore ... some Jimmy Page though but too tough. Can`t play twelve strings.

Bahrat Vyas: what an accomplished poet.
Every line is no less than a Faiz or a Sahir!

and notice how C. Ramchandra has used whatever instrument for the crickets(jhheengars) singing.
aaj madhhuva

Vasant Desai I missed earlier: what a gem; I like all Vshantaraam songs/dances

Zeemax:

That Master-Mohan Link works. Just click & listen!

By the way: madan Mohan was a born Iraqui. Arabic ``step-mother`` tongue. Hence his ghazal renditions enchanting.

Swarrier:109

could you give me the translation of that Ghanshayam Sundra? Even if it is a paraphrase, or cursory or however sketchy. I know how to fill in blanks with my ``lingo-connection`` art.

DM:

Joti is superb indeed. especially the last piece where all the first three pieces are ``explained``

Jyoti Yashodha, Dharti Gayeea
Neel gagan Gopal Kanahyaa
saNwal chhabee jhalkay.

the use of metaphors is simply superb

Jyoti Kalash chhalkay

Banjaara,

We`re all connosieurs of music .. particularly it appears swarrier ... echoboom ... DM, mannyD and Jang, plus everyone else. Pity echoboom couldn`t succeed with a mouth organ. Well, I did slightly better and got to being somewhat of an accomplished guitar musician. Best compliment I received was when someone said in a bar in the NY village where I was playing that I could make the guitar `speak` :)

Keep writing on the subject and `mehfil taza rehi gii` ...

Swarrier, Jang, Dost Mittar aur Echoboom sahibaan.

Yahan to mehfil urooj per hai. Subhan Allah;)

I hope mannyd has got his answer from Jang and Swarrier. I wish Harimau could offer his comments, his knowledge about Hidustani and Karnatic Music is extremely good. I am just a layman who enjoys the ebb and flow of the golden vioices, be it dadra or thumri, khayal or dhrupad, and move on if the piece does not pull at my heart strings.

Mannyd #100
If you are keen to know the grammer and other technicalities of Hindustani raga, check out Rajan Parrikar, a noted expert on Hindustani Classical Music. His website is: http://www.parrikar.org/.

The silver Jubilee was 25 weeks, Golden Jubilee 50 weeks and Diamond Jubilee was 75 weeks of continuous running of a film in one cinema hall.

Ras # 89

I did my schooling and graduation in Chittagong, followed by post graduation from Dacca University. How about you? Were you in Chittagong or Dacca.

swarrier#109:

I simply love Marathi Abhangs but can`t find them anywhere on CDs (I generally hear them when some Marathi singers come here). I am going to India soon. Can you tell me of a place in Delhi where I can find some good Abhangs?

My all time favourite bhajan is Sudhir Phadake`s Jyoti Kalash Chhalake.

[The discussion has veered from Naushad; I think we need another thread to talk about Indian music in general]

Re: # 110
DM
I don`t know Delhi very well. I could get some for you when I go to Bombay. You will also find a Bhimsen Joshi CD with Natyageet and Abhangs at www.khazana.com. I`ve bought music from there before.

Echoboom
I`ll have to dig up the poem from the past, since I don`t remember the words and I can`t listen to it right now. I`ll try to do an adequate translation then. Maybe somebody else is in a better position right now?

Zeemax
Had no idea you played the guitar? What style, rock ,jazz, blues , classical, flamenco ......?

#100 by mannyd

Yaar I am a complete klutz when it comes to music. I cannot play any instrument except a tape/cd player...not even a mouth-organ. Not that I`ve not tried desperately. I cannot also ``understand`` music either & am completely at a loss with this raag-raagni or flat-major stuff. I can only ``feel`` music. Consider me like a water-diviner as compared to an educated geologist.

I do, though understand somewhat , good poetry & can appreciate when it gets composed by one who also understands poetry. A singer is simply a voice-box and there are not too many good singers who know poetry and/or music. Even the top ones. The raag/raagni practice is simply the tuning of their voice boxes a sort of ``yoga`` or `body-building` for the throat. One should not get too enamoured or distracted by them unless one wants to pursue that as a sole vocation.

This Bhajan from amarbhopali made a nest in my mind & would play on `loop` all the time. I had heard just a portion of it as a `fade` background in another movie. I jsut could`nt find it , not having a clue about it. Eventually I ``discovered`` it.

I felt real good then to know that this was the only Indian movie which has ever won a best-music award (1954) at Cannes film festival. I felt that as if I passed a test witout appearing in any exam. I felt like a somebody.

amarbhopali: Ghanashayam sundara

The ``vibrations`` or larzish of voice ( common hindi/urdu word eludes me) in this beseechment to the god is superb. Despite old recordings , it comes through.

The instrument sounds should never ever smother the voice-box. They must recede in the background when words are spoken. Would you not lower all sound to listen to the enes whose words you value?

Re: # 108
Echoboom
Sir, you have impeccable taste. This is a very famous song in Marathi. I remember hearing this song played in the neighbouring house, every morning , while getting ready to go to school .
It is meant to wake up Shridhara (Lord Krishna) early in the morning. Vasant Desai`s music I think.

manny, warrier et al
i am not trained in classical music either, except as a sometimes listenter. IMO many-many indian music songs are based on ``classical`` music, its just not necessarily that obvious. e.g. there is a song called ``sionara sionara`` is bhoop rag...i have heard a traditional sikh bhajan which must have ``inspired`` the song. since bhoop is 5 note, it sounds ``oriental``. its just that most hindi songs are mishra (mixed) rags..they absolutely use hindustani claissical prograssions.

also this recognising rag thing is fun, but not that important. just listen to khayals etc for fun. from what little i know, the following are easier to identify due to well-defined note scales (IMO)

yaman, bhoop, des, bhairav, bhairavi, malkauns

malhar and its variants due to structure

pilu i think uses a lot of notes..so actually not easy to figure using notes..its more about way its sung. a lot of thumri type light stuff is in piu, kafi, khamaj, bhairavi etc (sweet sounding rags).

i use a harmonium and guitar to play and (loudly) belt out the notes etc for fun (listeners hate it) ..but listening is the main joy. also if you have time, can join the local music school, they keep having concerts. fir carnatic stuff, your local temple is prolly a good bet.

Re: # 105
Mannyd
The Chinese considered the pentatonic scale as a royal scale. Which is why so many Chinese and by influence I would presume the Japanese compositions are pentatonic (five notes)? They also like the ``shudh notes``. The music must not be sad, flattening the notes would give that timbre. Perhaps that is why Bhoop sounds oriental?
And the flattened notes make a pentatonic raaga like Malkauns sound completely different. Anyway that`s completely off topic.
A Naushad composition in raag Bilaval `` O meri ladli ....`` from Andaz should put this note back on topic.

mannyd:

I am heartbroken that none of you included my favourite, S.D.Burman, among your favourites. Incidentally, I think that his ``naache man mera magan dhig dhiga dheegi dheeggi`` is based on raag Pilu. But I am very poor at recognizing raagas, despite listening to and enjoying classical music and going to classical concers for forty years.

Re: # 104
DM
SD and RD were both great. I think ``Naache man mora`` is Bhairavi, one of the few fast paced Bhairavi`s you can hear. You are speaking about the song from Meri Surat Teri Ankhen , right.? Lovely tabla in that.

Do you remember the song from Tere Ghar ke samne, `` Yeh tanhayee hai re hai ... thamlo bahein?`` Lilting stuff that. What about ``Piya tose naina lage re..`` from Guide?

For some reason this brought to my mind another song by another pair of music directors `` Yeh dil tum bin , kahin lagtaa nahin hum kya karen...``. This is one of Laxmikant Pyarelal`s best, I think.

Kaurasach #99: LOL.. Who is your favorite composer in Punjabi? I rememebr Sardool singh Kawatra, who lived in the Bay area for a while. I do not know if he is still alive. I think he composed music for lot of Punjabi hit movies and the tune for Lata`s duet with shaminder Singh (?); `Charkhe diyan Ghooka ne`.

Swarrier: My three choices are Roshan, Naushad and Shankar jaiKishan. I like Madan Mohan too. have you heard him sing `Naina barse rim jhim, rim jhim`? Apparently Lata was too sick that day and Sadhna lip synched to MM`s singing, later to be replaced by Lata`s song.

Banjaara: I hope you can explain the terms in different jubilies,as asked by HP earlier. I think it was determined by the number of weeks, a movie ran in a particular theatre.
DM: Your memory is still in a lot better shape than mine. Thanks for sharing it.

Swarrier, DM, Echo or Banjaara: What is the difference between a Rag and Raagini? In the following list, song number 2 is my all time favorite. Do you have to have classical music training for years at the feet of a Guru to come up with such a list? What would be another example of PIlu by Nuahsad or anyone else in movie music and how would I go about identifying it?

1. Jo maiN jaanti bisrat hai saiyyaN in Maand (Shabab.)
2. More sayyaNji utreNge paar ho in Pilu (Uran Khatola.)
3. Jaane waale se mulaaqaat na hone paayi in Yaman (Amar.)
4. Tere pyaar meiN dildaar in Bihaag (Mere Mahboob.)
5. Suhaani raat dhal chuki in PahaRi (Dulari.)
6. Meri kahani bhoolne walay tera jahaN aabad rahe in Tilang (Deedaar.)
7. O duniya ke Rakhwalay, sun dard bhare mere naalay in Darbari (Baiju Bawra.)

Thanks in advance.

Re: # 100
Mannyd
I have no classical or any musical training. Just learnt to plonk the guitar on my own and listened to Sangeet Sarita. I used Mel Bay`s guitar primer to learn with an old guitar I had borrowed. Anybody can appreciate good music. But you have to listen not just hear.

You asked about the song Chandan ka palna previously. That is in Pilu. So is ``Dheere se aaja re ankiyan me , nindiya ..`` from Albela. There is a lot more. Now how to go about recognising it is difficult. I used to try to pick the notes on the guitar. Good musicians can make it out at once. I`m just a hack.

I have that recording of Madan Mohan singing. It`s there in one of the compilations of MM that I have. The reason why I like MM, Salil-da and Sajjad is because most of their songs were never predictable. There was that degree of complexity that left you stunned, made you think. You could never say, `` yeah that is the next note.`` I mean look at songs like `` Aap ki nazaron ne samjha``, `` O sajna barkha bahaar``, `` Dil me samaa gaye sajan``. Great stuff.

I like Roshan a lot. One of my favourite qawwalis ``Nigahen milaane ko ji chahata hain``, Rafi`s ``Man re to kahe na ..`` in Chitralekha.

Listen to PUNJABI songs and folk lyrics/music......I never understand this paan laden fluffy farts of Urdu shaiyari..........

Echoboom
Bit of trivia. A R Rahman`s father K. Shekhar was a music director in Malayalam films too. He was an assistant to Salil Chowdhury and Devarajan.

Bongdongs #96,
Thank you for sharing this interesting article. This banding together of people by linguistic groups came into fashion during the 1920s and 1930s when the Nazis were beating the drums of Aryan supremacy. The Turks started preaching Pan-Turanism and even tried to brew some rebellions in Central Asia against the Russians. All I know is that quite a few turks are named Atilla, Cengiz, Timur - to show their association with Hungarians (Magryars), Mongols, and Tatars. I have noticed that there is a city named Turku in Finland. I wonder....

Salim,

A turkish collegue of mine was talking about the ``Ural Altaic`` family a few months ago, so I did some research and found there is quite a bit of controversy surrounding it. A linguist friend of mine feels its baloney, but its obviously something lot of Turks believe in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ural-Altaic_languages

#92, Swarrier,
Yes, Indian Bollywood music has always been popular with Turks. Also, I noted that many Turks can sing ``Jeeway, Jeeway, Jeeway Pakistan`` with great enthusiasm and fun. The Kurds, especially, enjoy Urdu because their own language is akin to Farsi and very different from Turkish - an Ural Altaic language.

#87 by swarrier

Thanks.

Aswani name of the movie. story about a girl who surmounts a lot of odds to become a champion, olympic, runner. Perhaps based on a true story.

Seems like this also is hindi version of original Tamil/Malyalam.

O what a breadth of fresh air!

I liked one song in Eishwar. Oh the girl opposite Anil Kapoor, a joy to behold & an exhilirating experience watch her finely choreographed dance.

South-India! you are eeman-shikan; I`ve to watch out--or maybe watch you more and put my eeman to test for more rewards.

Re: # 93

Ah, you must be talking about Ashwini Nachappa and yes they made a film on her. She was a sprinter, came from the Coorg area of South India. Had a sister who was an athlete too, Pushpa. She is quite active in Bangalore with various sports works for children.
No I have not seen the film or heard the music, unfortunately. I have not seen Eeshwar either . I believe the female lead was Vijayashanti.

Salim_Chauhan:90
ooper vali manzil: The failed-state Board.

Echoboom #72, {``Salim_Chauhan:
Someone wants you in ooper vali manzil: 4th mala from top, one above this one.
please repatriate yourself back to Pakistan. We need you.
See you there!``}

Echo Sahib,
Please explain to this dense nacheez how I can help my beloved Pakistan? Also, I did not understand the upper story, 4th floor from top, above this one. Are you talking about ``Market Street`` on Chowk?

Thanks for your invitation to return to Pakistan, but as you can see from the response I get to my views on Chowk from many Pakistani ``brethren,`` my short life would be easily snuffed out. Perhaps it is wiser (and safer) and certainly more productive to set Pakistan`s moral compass from a distance. Your thoughts?

This is for our resident Turkish expert Salim Chauhan

In 1989 I heard a Turkish group who called themselves ``The Mustafa 3`` sing ``Awara Hoon`` at Club Passim in Cambridge, Massachusetts. How`s that for a meeting of continents?

Re: # 92 Swarrier

I happened to meet a group of turkish tourists may be some 20 years back in what was then west berlin. They told me they loved this song - Dum maaro dum...harey krishna harey raam, and started humming it together. Then one of them asked what actually did harey krishna harey ram means. I said it means something like praise to hindu gods rama and krishna. They fell silent for a moment, somewhat disappointed maybe, but then one of them lighted up and remarked, I like the song anyway, and again all of them started humming it for me.

And while everybody is listing his/her favorites from north/south/east/west, nobody has said anything about beghum akhtar and MS Subbalakshmi. Well, they are my favorites. Doesn`t anyone like them?

I could have said something myself, but I`m afraid I know too little.

Re: # 121
Subhash
I think most of us were concentrating on film songs rather than the whole musical span. I like Begum Akhtar and MS too. Being a South Indian it`s difficult to get away from MS`s ``Suprabhatam``. As for Begum Aktar ``Rasm-e-ulfat sikha gaya koi`` , etc...
By the way are you a Maharashtrian Joshi ? If so you would be in a better position to translate Lata`s ``Ghanshyam sundara shridhara , arunoday jhala. `` for Echoboom

Re: # 124Swarrier & #123 Echoboom

No I`m not a Maharashtrian Joshi. Come to think of it, I`m not a Joshi at all. It`s just a nick :)

My favorite Beghum Ahtar ghazal is Merey Humnafas...written by Shakeel. I could never sit quietly while I listen to this one. It hits me in stomach.

My favorite from MSS is her Soordas Bhajan..``Maiya mori Main nahin makhan khan khayo`` and ``hey Govind hey Gopal``. And also her Madhurashtakam.

Re: # 125
[Come to think of it, I`m not a Joshi at all. It`s just a nick :) ]
That`s funny , I was ready to put you down as a Kobra.-) What a nick!!!

Re: # 121

Sorry .....Beghum Akhtar.

A musical Titan has passed away...

Noor Jehan gained wide fame through ``Anmol GhaRi``

so the trio of Noor Jehan, Lata & Rafi owed a great

deal to Naushad (while not forgetting the contribution of

Master Ghulam Haidar here).

Thanks Banjaara for doing justice to a legend.

PS: Which school did you go to in E.Pak?

Ras

echoboom / khamkhwa

Thanks. I knew rcvap.tripod.com but the links didn`t work earlier when I tried. They work now. Echo`s site doesn`t show up on google.

His control over voice and pitch was like a sarangi player`s over the instrument. And the rendition of lyrics, quite unbelievable for a boy his age.

khamkhaw#80:

He (Master Madan) sounded like a female because he was a mere boy and died (piosoned) at the age of 14.

swarrier:

Some songs from Ashwani & Saza-i Kala-pani are superb. who is the music D? any link?

Khurshid-Anwar`s are on tap-just google.

Re: # 85
Kalapani is Illayaraja, both Hindi and Malayalam.

I did not quite place Ashwani . Is that a film? Hint?

I`ll look up Kurshid Anwar. Thanks.

salil-da was also ``accused`` of borrowing from folk-e.g. the bichua song.

Re: # 83

Jang,
Everybody borrows from folk. You don`t think every music director or composer comes up with only original tunes or works do you? It`s what you do with the raw material that matters. Chopin can take mazurkas of his mother`s Poland and build on that. Dvorak takes dances from his native Bohemia and works on them. Copland took stuff from Negro minstrels. Even Delius did that. Kachaturian and Stravinsky, Rimsky-Korsakov used so many Russian folk influences.
You will see less innovation as time goes on perhaps with recorded artists. Keith Jarrett once said that recording companies buy a musician`s soul. That is what happens when most artistes get established.

Echoboom
Salil Chowdhury also composed in Malayalam and Bengali (of course). There is a lovely Yesudas song from a film called ``Madanolsavam``. The South Indian music directors especially the more recent ones took a different tack from Bollywood.
I have not heard Kurshid Anwar since my old National Echo radio broke down in the 80`s. It`s a pity that the old recordings are not released on CD`s. At least if they are , I am not aware of them.
Hridayanath Mangeshkar, Bhaskar Chandavarkar, Vanraj Bhatia . Hridayanath was sometimes too complicated .

Zeemax:77

Master-Madan. His two most well known Ghazals. alphabetically--here>

Hairat se..

YuN na...


http://www.dishant.com/album/popular_ghazals.html

swarrier:

Khurshid Anwar, Sajjad Hussein, Nisar Bazmi, Bhupinder Hazrika, Pankaj Mullick, Ravinder Jain, and of course Ilya Raja .

The south Indian & Bengali scene is more authentic than that of Follywood (Mollywood--a thousand curse on the gora-slaves)

#77
...are you guys really neanderthals...? you wanted information on master madan, i googled and out comes this female singing something which sounds urdu but...here...enjoy it and learn to google if nothing else...;)

master madan

On the subject, does anyone have any information on that little genius Master Madan? A link would be even more appreciated.

zeemax, mannyd:

You guys are right; my memory is playing the old trick on me. I was mixing the song in my mind with another one by Hemant Kumar from the film Police (I think!). That song was ``Aa ja zara meray dil ke sahare dilruba`` - the music was also by Hemant.

Yes, ``itna na`` was sung by Talat and Lata and the music director was Salil Chaudhry.

Zeemax:74

Yes Talat indeed.

Salil Choudhry...the one who acquired foreign ``education`` in music...like the fizzled-out A.R.Rehman

Re: # 75
[Salil Choudhry...the one who acquired foreign ``education`` in music...like the fizzled-out A.R.Rehman]

I would not compare Salil Chowdhury with A R Rahman. Salil`s compositions are far more complicated and so is the background music in his movies. It is not easy to sing a Salil-da composition. Even Rafi had a lot of difficulty with the rapidly changing scales. He composed simple songs for Mukesh and Talat to suit their ranges more complicated ones for Manna Dey and the real goods for Lata. If I had to choose the top 3 music directors in Hindi films, I would choose Madan Mohan , Salil Chowdhury and Sajjad Hussain. Of course this is a purely subjective opinion.
It is a pity that Sajjad does not have as large a body of work as the others. He was less diplomatic than some, otherwise perhaps we would have had some more wonderful melodies.

If you are looking at modern music directors, I have seen very few to compare with Illyaraja. Rehman does not even approach his shoe-laces yet. By the way Rehman`s body of work in Tamil & Malayalam especially when sticking to folk inspired melodies is better than his Hindi film work.

#63 by dost-mittar on May 8, 2006 6:17pm PT
swarrier#56:

Hemant Kumar`s ``Itna na mujh se tu pyaar badha, kay main ik baadal awaara`` is actually a plagiarisation of a Bach composition. [believe it or not!].

DM Bhai, that song is an almost exact copy of Mozart`s symphony #9, and it is not Hemant Kumar but Talat Mehmood :)

Who was the music director guilty here?

DM #69: Thanks for the info. I was too young to appreciate Pukka Raags in India and now I am too old to learn new tricks... LOL.
But between the Alaaps, Khayals and gargling sounds, it is very difficult for an untrained ear to understand what words the Pakka Raagi is trying to spit out.
Actually came to know about Bade Gulam and his fees on Chowk. Yes he was good.

I think the 55 or 56 Filmfare award was won by S.J. for `Ye raaat Bheegi Bheegi`. On the background music specially for SJ movies, it used to be fun to see how it becomes another song tune in another movie.

#70 Echo: Thanks for the info.

# 71 NHK: ``Neither the Hero nor the Heroine deserved to sing them.``
HAHAHAHA...LOL.
Well in most cases but not always.
The only Indian movie to ever win an Oscar was designed to showcase Nargis as an actoress and she was just superb and larger than life itself. People from Mexico, Bolivia and Argentina still remember her and the movie.
However it is advisable to say ` That Asha Parikh looks so fat there. Is that her or our TV?`, when you are watching it with your wife.

Salim_Chauhan:

Someone wants you in ooper vali manzil: 4th mala from top, one above this one.

please repatriate yourself back to Pakistan. We need you.

See you there!

Better late than never.

Our childhood was without TV. It was radio (Radio Ceylon) & that gramaphone with dog.

And it was this music that put colour and romance into our lives. Superb mix of poetry & music.

Frankly, many years later, when VCR came and we saw the same songs being sung in the movies, it was a bit of disappointment. Neither the Hero nor the Heroine deserved to sing them.

Naushad, Thanks. You made my life richer and so beautiful.

nhk

Mannyd:

Naushad was a master salesman & self-promotor as well. He belongs to that class of people who stoop to conquer--and conquer he did. With 11 children to feed & nine girls to get married to some Doctor/professional types & some settled in US as well. The 2 sons, as is usualy the case, shrivelled under the oak.

Someone who regularly spoke to him on phone but more so during last fifteen days gave me a heart-to-heart lip-seal info. He was in hospital for only two days & was pretty chatty even there.

But the K.Asif-manto episode is really a beaut. manto was never maudlin or hyping type. Naushad was. ...well Naushad.

Raw-Dust:

You may be right about Mozart.

It was not just the classic, Mr. X`s ``Lal lal gaal`` was a complete copy of ``Rock around the clock``.

mannyd:

I agree. Mughal-e-Azam was no match for Anarkali in terms of music. There was nothing in Mughal-e-Azam to beat ``Yeh zindagi usi ki hai`` or ``Jaag dard-e-ishq jaag``. But Bade Ghulam`s piece was a coup. Indeed, Naushad`s win in Baiju Bawra was also not a cake walk, he had tough competition from S.D. Burman. That was the first year of Filmfare awards and the best music award was given on the basis of a single song - ``Tu ganga ki mauj`` was voted superior to Taxi Driver`s ``Jayen tau jayen kahan``. For anyone who saw both films, background music was better in Taxi Driver; indeed S.D. Burman, with his knowledge of both Indian and Western music, was perhaps the best background scorer of his times.

echoboom:
:)

#66 RawDust: Yes Mozart it is. Thanks.
The lyrics of `Na hum Tumhe jaane, na Tum hume jaano` are remarkably similar to Sinatra`s `Strangers in the night` but at least the tune is different.

Echo: Probably only a rumor started by Behram, but it is said that PatiyaaN was an acceptable means of procreation in Bihar. By the way where did you hear Naushad earned Rs. 25K per movie? SOunds way too high for the forties.

DM: Mughle-Azam was good, but you could see Naushad sweat it out to meet AnaarKali`s standard set by Chitalkar. In my opinion he could not. On a `Sa Re Gama` show, Naushad related how K. Aasif came to his house one day and plunked down 10K Rupees on his harmonium to speed along the music. This irritated Naushad so much, he threw up the bundle of notes in the air.
`Do you think money makes someone create music Aasif Sahib? I will not take a single Dhela until your movie has a golden Jubile, but please do not stress and insult me`

#63 DM: I agree on `Itna na` song, sung by Talat. I thought it was a Chopin Concerta, but was only guessing. Other western rock tunes that were copied were `Come September`, `Sucu Sucu` and `Mast Ram ban ke Jindgi`. However to call it rampant plagirism is just exaggeration and bunk in case of Naushad.

On the voice thing, Raj Kapoor did sing one movie song and he sounds almost like Mukesh. I talked to a Chinese immigrant in her twenties recently. She saw Indian movies in open air fields with projection on white bedsheet. She claims that she was stunned and impressed by the openness, romance and songs of Indian movies. Her favorite was Awaara and she could even hum a few bars of `Awaara Hoon`...LOL.

Today AR Rahman is popular with little black schoolgirls in Uganda to teenagers in Tokyo, but probably the fifties were a different era. There was an almost volcanic wruption in creativity due to the British leaving, at least in Bombay while Lahore and Calcutta suffered irreversible losses.

DM sahib:
i believe that tune sounds similar to Mozart`s 40th. (opening of first movement).

dost-mittar:63

``ChoO sham’a soozaN, choO zarra hairaN, hamesha giryaN be ishq aaN m`e;
Na neend nainaaN, na ang chainaN, na aap aavaiN na bhaijaiN patiyaaN``

whatever you understand is enough.

Lyrics are to a composed song, what script is to a movie.

Among the trio,it is Shakeel all the way on top but business is ruthlessly democratic, and rightfully so. So we all bow our heads, in submission, as an admission of our frailities & the not-knowing ones.

``Jisay bujaa kahay dunyaa, usay bujaa samjho
zubaan-i khalque ko naqqaraa-i khuda samjho``


Songs of the lyric-stalwarts like shakeel, sahir, majrooh, ravinder Jain, Vyas, kaifi, Arzoo, Fayyaz Hashmi & & &... by any music director have seldom bombed...but then it requires a non-banyaa brain to understand all that.

swarrier#56:

Hemant Kumar`s ``Itna na mujh se tu pyaar badha, kay main ik baadal awaara`` is actually a plagiarisation of a Bach composition. [believe it or not!].

Re: # 63
Dost-Mittar
``Itna ta muhjse tu pyar bada`` is not a plagiarisation of Bach. The first 8 bars in the song are actually a variation of Morzarts 40th Symphony in G minor. This song is by Salil Chowdhury from the film ``Chaya``. Salil himself said that he used these musical lines from Mozart in an interview a long time ago.
If you will pay attention you will realise it is not a direct lift. The Morzartian melody is more complicated because of the second violins and the flutes. The rest of the song moves on a completely different phase.

Mannyd#27, 29:

You are right about Hemant Kumar`s song for Naushad - that most melodious lullaby ``Chandan ka Palna`` with Lata in the film Shabab. I thing that was perhaps the only time Hemant sang for Naushad. I think Manna Dey also probably sang for the only time for Naushad in the same film - a bhajan ``Bhagat kay bas mein hain bhagwan, maango milega sab ko daan``.

Regarding Majrooh being ``kafir``, I had read somewhere in an article on Majrooh, which did not surprise me as he, Sahir, Sardar Jaafri, Kaifi Aszmiu, Jaan Nissar Akhtar, Akhtar, Manto and the whole lot of them ``taraqi-pasand`` poets were Marxism-oriented. Incidentally, the same article also mentioned that the two made up in later life and indeed became each other`s ``samdhis`, with Majrooh`s son marrying Naushad`s daughter (or the other way round).

Regarding wedding songs, the general rule was to have ``Raaja ki aayegi baraat`` when the wedding party arrived and play the Shamshad song at the time of the departure of baraat, doli.

echoboom:

You may be on to something about Naushad`s dependence on Ghulam Mohammad. Incidentally, GM`s best music was perhaps in Mirza Ghalib and he tended to prefer Talat over Rafi.

Banjara,

Plagiarism is a rampant problem in Indian movies. I think wiki has some info on that and there is some on usenet out there too. My interest in Indian movies is limited and I think it is truly a waste of time for me to dig up that info and post it here.

``Naushad Ali scored in 67 films, out of which 3 were Diamond jubilee, 9 were Golden jubilee and 26 were Silver jubilee films.``

I don`t know what you mean by golden or silver jubilee. If this means how successful those movies were then that credit should go to multiple people and not to Naushad alone. But if you mean that his songs or numbers were silver jubilees or golden jubilees then you really have to explain what does that mean in terms of number charts.

Binaca Geetmala of Amin Siani which later became cibbela (or similar) geetmala used to keep track of songs popularity. How many of Naushad`s songs made that list?

I rate success based on how many of his songs were actually popular (not the movies) and how many never made it beyond the theatres. So my estimate is that he had about 100 hit songs out of perhaps 500. The others were not heard beyond a few weeks in the theatres.

What abt the background music that he composed? He got only one film fair award. I think in the old days the award was based more on the background music than on the songs compositions.

I don’t wanna sound too critical as he was one of the better composers in India but the murmur abt some of his compositions is out there too.

Re: # 57

HP
It is a question of taste. Naushad was an excellent music director and with a lot of good songs to his credit. I would not rate him among my top three music directors. With some exceptions his music was relatively predictable, though very melodious. Sometimes one yearns for a complexity in rythm and melody which was not too apparent in Naushad`s compositions. Most of his compositions were simple and very wholesome. And yet one does not tire of listening to them. That was his greatness.

Banjaara Sahib #55,
Thank you for putting Mr. HP in his place for his insidious remarks about the late genius, Naushad Ali. With that, I will not bother you or your thread with what someone has called a ``one pony show.`` I never realized that some members of the Paki majority regard the suffering of hundreds of thousands of fellow humans and (Muslim humans at that!) as a ``pony show.`` I added the words ``Muslim humans`` to appeal to their selective sense of compassion. How often we hear them cry about ``poor`` Muslims in Kashmir, Palestine, and Iraq?

Nevertheless, thank you for noting Mr. HP`s tasteless attempt to malign a deceased maestro - I am sure that he did it because Naushad hailed from Lucnow, UP, India.

HP #22

Two of your points quoted below are interesting. While you generalize and call Indian artists “talent-less hacks”, which is a serious charge and needs proof but in the same breath you mention - Now I cannot give specifics because I think it is waste of time for me to work on that project but the obvious don’t need any proof either. Do you expect to be taken seriously after what you said?

The second point you raised specifically against Naushad Ali is:

“His success was also dependent on good poetry and good singing. It may sound strange to his blind followers here that his numbers w/o some quality poet and quality singers never made it to the top. So he can at best share the credits with some other people for the best efforts.”

Naushad Ali scored in 67 films, out of which 3 were Diamond jubilee, 9 were Golden jubilee and 26 were Silver jubilee films. Which gives him a success ratio of 57 percentile which may not be very high in your estimation but in a risky venture like Hindi Movies it was considered extremely high by his peers, producers and directors. It was due to this success rate that his name was mentioned before the hero and heroine, because his name alone was considered a guarantee for a successful film.

Re: # 55
Banjara Sahib and HP
To continue in this vein let us take the example of W A Mozart, one of the greatest western classical music composers. For every great composition he has a few that are eminently forgettable. Do you know why? Because he had to compose music for people to eat and dine and dance to. It is difficult to take inspiration from the muse when one has to compose for people who are wondering whether the sauerkraut will taste good with the sausage or with the mutton.
Also hit songs are not necessarily the best of a composers ouvre.

#52, Banjara {``I know what I am saying because I was there and lost relatives and properties``}

Sounds like ``I got mine, the hell with you.``

Banjaara {``Lata being a Maharashtrian, her Urdu diction and delivery was far from ideal for a perfectionist like him. He personally sat with her for hours and coached her till her diction, delivery and accent was perfect.``}

Banjaara Sahib,
Too bad that Naushad didn`t stay in Pakistan. He could have done wonders with that atrocious Punjabi accent that butchers Urdu like none other - as noted by DM Sahib quite recently. I have noticed that the legacy of speaking Urdu with perfect diction and delivery is alive and well in today`s Bollywood and even TV soap operas in India. Compared to this diligence, the Pakistani movies and TV, with their total ignorance of Urdu diction, turn comedies into tragedies and vice versa.

I am dismayed at the antics of some of the interactors on this thread which was opened to bid farewell to a genius.I would respectfully request them to please take their agenda elsewhere. I can safely say that the problems of Biharis will not be solved on the threads of Chowk. I know what I am saying because I was there and lost relatives and properties. Please stop this soapbox oratory, no one is hoodwinked by anyone.

haider5 # 23
Ghulam Mohammed was assistant to Nausahd Ali for many years and his films included:

1. Amber (1952) 2. Dil-e-Nadan (1953) and 3. Pakeezah (1971).

Ghulam Haider scored for many more successful films, both in Lahore and Bombay.His first film was A.R.Kardar’s Swarg ki SeeRhi made in Lahore in 1935. But he became famous with the Punjabi film Gul Bakawli released in 1939, in which he also introduced Baby Noorjahan whose Shala Jawaniyan Mane and Pinjre de vich qaid jawani were instant hits all over Punjab. His biggest hit was Khazanchi completed in 1941 and thereafter, he moved to Bombay in 1943-44 and scored music for Chal Chal re Naujawan (1944), Phool (1944), Humayun (1945), Bairam Khan (1946), Shama (1946), Majboor (1948), he introduced Lata Mangeshkar in this film, Padmini, Barsat ki aik Raat, PatjhaR and Shaheed, all made in 1948. His last film in India was Kaneez, released in 1949 after which he migrated to Pakistan. In Lahore he formed Filmsaz with Nazir Ajmeri and S. Gul. And produced Gulnaar in 1953, which was a flop. He died in 1954 aged 45 years.

PS: Wikipedia wrongly mentions him to be the father of Abida Parveen, the great sufi singer of Pakistan. Her father Master Ghulam Haider was a classical singer and had a Music school where he taught vocal and instrumental music to children.

Naushad and Ghulam Muhammed

Does someone know about the dependence of Naushad on GM. I have always wondered why no good music came out of Naushad after Pakeeza.

or is it that I`m not aware of that music?

Most of the Filmi Museequar`s of India were shamelessly plagiarists; but then they were music directors & NOT composers. Naushad was a composer; but the top most original was Sajjad Hussain. Both Noor Jehan (an acknowledged sangeet-viddya herself) and Lata were in awe of him. They also felt very proud to work for him , despite being ``terrorised`` & ``humiliated`` by him.

just to nudge the conversation along.

#48 by Salim_Chauhan

Jaipuri Pinocchio,

Just show me where I mentioned Naushad’s roots.

Chowk is not a place for writing obituaries. This is a place to discuss different aspects of issues or personal accomplishment.
Don`t runaway from your lies by writing inane. Your drivels can’t hide the fact that the foot size in your mouth grows by an inch every time you lie.

Right now you just sound like Pinocchio.

one group truly feeling the loss are the singing beggars in the bombay suburban trains. while the lesser singers sing ``pardesi pardesi jana nahin``, old-time surdas blind beggars consider ``o duniyan ke rakhwale`` as the top begging song (Garinbo ki Suno second and Shirdiwale Saibaba a distant third). a late 11 PM train with many a late-working commuter, a quarter of rum in their belly enjoy it and pay good tips.

HP #47, {``#22 by HP on May 7, 2006 10:59pm PT
Sorry to join the party this late but I would rather be a party pooper here than an admirer.
Was Naushad really this good? Over the years he probably had 500 numbers and out of that abt 100 reached the pinnacle. That gives him a success ratio of abt one out of every 5. Is it really a great ratio when we consider the amount of time he spent as an active music director?
His success was also dependent on good poetry and good singing. It may sound strange to his blind followers here that his numbers w/o some quality poet and quality singers never made it to the top.``}

HP,
Banjaara Sahib has graciously written an article about a recently-deceased music director of epic fame and acknowledged accomplishments. Do you always read the obituary section of newspapers and then show up at funerals with your wide trap open and mouth off about the shortcomings of the departed? Do you make it a habit of pissing people off for no real reason? Do you really enjoy pissing on people`s parades? Do you enjoy informing widows and orphans about the misdeeds of their loved one who just died?

I think that you are either one very sick puppy or a very uncivilized and uncouth ``PISSER-E-ZAMEEN.``

#46
Are you trying to pull one over me? Mannyd refered to your post and your inference and not my post.
Show me what I wrote abt Naushad that refered to his roots.

Koi iss jaipuri ki deeda daleri tau dekho.. Chori our phir ouper say seena zori.

Bhag yehan say...

HP #43, {``Where did I say anything abt Naushad`s roots in post #22?
It is your jaundiced eyes that see inference in every thing people write. Plagiarism is a serious issue in Indian movie Industry and has nothing to do with where people come from. I never mentioned Naushad or any one’s roots. ``}

HP,
Your obviously racist dilution of Naushad`s accomplishments were not even thinly disguised from your predictable hatred of all things from UP and Urdu-speaking Hindustan. Even Mannyd noticed your badmouthing of Naushad. Enjoy:


{``#29 by mannyd on May 8, 2006 8:18am PT
#28: LOL.. HP badmothing Naushad Ali is like a coyote howling at the moon. I guess Sain HP is just trying too hard to prove that UPites and Biharis are less civilized than Sindhis, but he can not come up with any well thought out reasoning. ``}

#44, Echoboom {``you might get a better ear from others ...``}

Echo Bhai,
It is NOT about my getting a better ear, rather about the ``stranded`` Pakis getting better treatment from THEIR own country and THEIR own compatriots. Instead of trying to muzzle me, sincere Pakistanis should be petitioning THEIR government to do the right thiing. Just try to imagine, what would the Holy Prophet (PBUH) have done?

Salim_Chauhan:42

The respect can become mutual and you might get a better ear from others as well if you allow them some space.

Otherwise, please carry on. It was not intimidation but simply sincere advice from an elder.

thanks.

#41

Where did I say anything abt Naushad`s roots in post #22?

It is your jaundiced eyes that see inference in every thing people write. Plagiarism is a serious issue in Indian movie Industry and has nothing to do with where people come from. I never mentioned Naushad or any one’s roots.

In my subsequent post in reply to your drivel, I just mentioned that people like Naushad excelled against the odds while some just left to later badmouth the opportunities provided to them.

Mannyd examples are of individual cases and they really do not mean a whole lot to the point that I made.

Echoboom,
While I respect you considerably as an individual and a Chowk contributor and we often have a commonality of views, I cannot allow you to intimidate me. You cannot stop me or anyone else from speaking out against the racist, myopic, and bankrupt policies of the Pakistani government and its majority ethnic group in denying repatriation to Pakistani citizens. I know that it is inconvenient, embarrassing, and possibly annoying (as mentioned by another Chowkie hailing from Punjab) to some, but it needs to be repeated. This has to continue until the injustice is rectified and the misery for these twice-wronged people is ended. Thank you for your understanding.

#40, NO.

Ask HP not to attack a dead music director just because he hailed from Lucknow. Is there no shame left in you ``PISSER-E-ZAMEEN?`` Must you be so blatantly racist? For you it may be a one-pony show, for 250,000 ``stranded`` Muslims it is daily misery. So much for your phony Islamic crap.

Salim_Chauhan!

may I politely ask you to fcuk off, and take your one-pony show to a more appropriate board.

thank you.

Mannyd #36 {``I do not inderstand your criteria for real people v/s ghosts. Pakistan was supported and nurtured in Aligarh University by Muslim intellectuals from all Indian states. ...We in USA are grateful for the opportunity, but I would like my grandchildren to decide what they would like to do.
...It is good to know that you have nothing against Punjabis, but Bihari Muslims went through the same fate in 1946. Their blood stained clothes, chappals and gunny-sacks full of skulls were used by ML in NWFP and Punjab to rally support for ML and bring down the Tiwana ministery. Biharis in Bengla Desh were true Pakistanis, who were first killed by Bihari Hindus, then by Bengali Muslims and now abandoned by guardians of Pakistaniyat. That Bihari fathers have to sell their daughters to Arab Sheiks or see them work in Bomaby brothels is a shame and a Laahanat on Pakistan, TNT, Bengla Desh and even India. Any how the subject is off topic and I could never convince you if and where Salim failed.
India is surely grateful for Naushad, Rafi, Majrooh, Shakeel and Mehboob Khans and we have no hesitation to share their work with our cousins. ``}

Manny Bhai,
Thank you for stating so crisply and so undeniably the case for justice and compassion. Regardless of which side we are on, TNT or not, the fact remains that these unfortunate people suffered twice and longer than any other victims of the evils of partition. I salute you for not only understanding the issue, crystallizing it for people like Tahmed, Behram1, and HP, but also for shining the spotlight of ``laanat`` on their hypocritical positions. Thank you, my respect for you keeps multiplying. You reflect the true Islamic spirit of generosity and egalitarianism more than the so-called Muslims who say that they are the ``Pisser-e-Zameen.``

Re #33,

Abida Parveen`s father, Ustad Ghulam Haider, a Pakistani vocalist, should not be confused with Master Ghulam Haider, the famous music director.

Master Ghulam Haider died in 1953. Abida Parveen was born in 1954 and studied under her father while growing up.

Re: # 38

Khurram
Thank you for pointing out the error. I was mistaken about the identities then. I believed it was the same Ghulam Haider. I have not heard a lot of Pakistani singers (with the exception of Mehdi Hassan, Ghulam Ali and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan) and when I read about her being the daughter of Ghulam Haider on the notes on one of her recordings I assumed it was the same person because I had read that the music director Ghulam Haider also hailed from Sind.

Swarrier #35: ``Naushad actually lifted ``O duniya ke rakhwale`` from Beethoven`s Quintet for ``Piano and five wind instruments in E-Flat major``. ``

PLEASE, make some hint oh master, for us gullible types that you are joking. I`ll buy anything when you go into technical jargon like that.

Re: # 37
Mannyd
Of course I was joking when I compared Beethoven`s quintet in E flat major with ``O duniya ke rakhwaale``. There is no relation between the two compositions. I was gently pulling HP`s leg. I am sure that you realised that too.

DM #24: The quwali, you mentioned, was not composed by naushad Ali accoeding to the following info from
http://www.indianmelody.com/old1940s2.htm
Aahen Na Bharin Zeenat
Singer: Noor Jehan & Zohrabai Ambalawali, Music: Hafiz
It could be wrong info though.
The SurDas MeeraBai Bhajans were of course there even in the thirties, specially with all the Bengali talent like KC Dey(Manna Dey`s uncle), Pankaj Mallick etc.

Banjaara #21: In Babul, another Lucknow Bhaiyaa Talat Mahmood was the lead singer with Rafi just doing an Aalaap at the end in the song `Nadi Kinare`. Of course Naushad`s coaching of Lata`s diction would have helped her Urdu, but she was already well established in Barsat(1948?). She was shrewd enough to demand to sing for all female actresses in that movie. The money probably was just a few hundred Rupees per song.

HP #30: I do not inderstand your criteria for real people v/s ghosts. Pakistan was supported and nurtured in Aligarh University by Muslim intellectuals from all Indian states. They and many others were fired to move to Pakistan for ideologcal reasons or maybe even economic reasons. Why does it bind their progeny in perpetuity for being grateful for your kindness to allow them into Pakistan? We in USA are grateful for the opportunity, but I would like my grandchildren to decide what they would like to do.

Naushad Ali stayed on in India. I think he tried Pakistan for a while but came back again. By contrast Habib Wali Mohammad, who sang Zafar`s Ghajals or Ghazals, as the case maybe, moved to Karachi with some family still in Bombay and Hyderabad. Is he really less real than Naushad?

It is good to know that you have nothing against Punjabis, but Bihari Muslims went through the same fate in 1946. Their blood stained clothes, chappals and gunny-sacks full of skulls were used by ML in NWFP and Punjab to rally support for ML and bring down the Tiwana ministery. Biharis in Bengla Desh were true Pakistanis, who were first killed by Bihari Hindus, then by Bengali Muslims and now abandoned by guardians of Pakistaniyat. That Bihari fathers have to sell their daughters to Arab Sheiks or see them work in Bomaby brothels is a shame and a Laahanat on Pakistan, TNT, Bengla Desh and even India. Any how the subject is off topic and I could never convince you if and where Salim failed.

India is surely grateful for Naushad, Rafi, Majrooh, Shakeel and Mehboob Khans and we have no hesitation to share their work with our cousins.

Obviously HP is right.
Naushad actually lifted ``O duniya ke rakhwale`` from Beethoven`s Quintet for ``Piano and five wind instruments in E-Flat major``. Beethoven was well versed in raga Darbari which he learnt from his Greek teacher since the Greeks knew everything about the natural music scale and the use of 22 microtones in an octave, and hell what do those Indians know even about their music.
Of course there is the minor matter of using a semitone between the 2nd and 3rd notes of Darbari and a whole tone between F and G in the scale of E flat major ....... but I digress. -)

#33 by swarrier
``I was pleasantly surprised to find out that Abida Parveen is Ghulam Haider`s daughter.``

I did not know that..are you sure you are talking abt Abida Parveen the Sindhi singer from Larkana or someone else. Generally, I don`t kep tabs on someone`s parents...

Jaipuri,

Only the economic reasons count.....

HP #30, {``I have nothing against the honorable people who stayed back in their homeland and excelled in different fields some ``inspiration`` was helpful but mostly they were the real people.
People who left without any cause and reason for just the economic gains should be grateful that they were given opportunity by the locals to improve their standards of living.``}

HP,
I have heard that many of those from Urdu-speaking heartland went to Pakistan to help their Muslim ``brethren,`` who had been supposedly suffering under Hindu and Sikh zamindars. There were exaggerated tales of Sindhi Muslims having to keep their girls as ransom for loans with the Hindu nobility. Honestly, this kind of emotional propaganda was used my Muslim League to garner support for partition.

HP #30, {``I have nothing against the Punjabis on the both sides of the borders that left due to life threatening situations. There were no life threats in Jaipur and Jaiselmir or even in Lucknow. These people ought to be grateful like we all are in the US where we have been given opportunities without any discrimination based on ethnicity. ``}

HP,
There you go again. When the stupid act of partition, based solely on religion, made a mockery out of civilized behavior, compassion, and the unity of India, can you really blame people for feeling helpless in Lucknow, Jaipur, and Bombay? First you blabber TNT, piss off the Hindus and Sikhs, kick out the Hindus and Sikhs from Punjab and Sindh, and then expect Muslims in India to continue prospering as if nothing had happened? Either you are far more stupid than I give you credit for, or you are being deliberately too Sindhi. :)

I have nothing against the honorable people who stayed back in their homeland and excelled in different fields some ``inspiration`` was helpful but mostly they were the real people.
People who left without any cause and reason for just the economic gains should be grateful that they were given opportunity by the locals to improve their standards of living.

I have nothing against the Punjabis on the both sides of the borders that left due to life threatening situations. There were no life threats in Jaipur and Jaiselmir or even in Lucknow. These people ought to be grateful like we all are in the US where we have been given opportunities without any discrimination based on ethnicity.

#28: LOL.. HP badmothing Naushad Ali is like a coyote howling at the moon. I guess Sain HP is just trying too hard to prove that UPites and Biharis are less civilized than Sindhis, but he can not come up with any well thought out reasoning.

DOst Muittar Sahib #24: Majrooh was a Kafir? How so?

This is what I found on Majrooh:

``Majrooh Saab was born Asrar Hussain Khan in Sultanpur, Uttar Pradesh, the son of a police constable. After studying Persian in Aligarh, he moved to Bombay. His early and best-known independent poetry was in the ghazal form.

He made his film debut with the K.L.Saigal starrer Shahjehan (1946) which included the latter`s ever popular Jab Dil hi Toot Gaya. But his major breakthrough was Mehboob Khan`s Andaaz (1949) with hit songs like Tu Kahe Agar, Jhoom Jhoom ke Naacho Aaj, Hum Aaj Kahin Dil Kho Baithe, Toote na Dil Toote na and Uthaye Ja Unke Situm.``

DM #25: Yes, Babul`s Shamshad` song was played at every wedding until it was replaced by Mother India`s Shamshad song. Talat`s song was too depressing to be played at the weddings but I heard Aan`s `Hum Aaj aapni Maut Ka saman le chale` quite a few times.

#27, Mannyd,
Manny Bhai,
I just had to reply to HP - the man is really trying to run for dogcatcher. :) My grandfather loved to listen to Shamshad Begum. That lady really sang with her total heart. Of all the music in the world, I find Indian Bollywood music to be timeless and very enjoyable.

Salim Bhai #20: Very well put. Thanks Banjaara Sahib for the article. I was irritated when the TV news quickly brushed over the passing of a titan. Good to see the article and some very knowledgable interactors here.

Freethinker #14: What was the song that Hemant did for Naushad? Was it ` Chandan ka Palnaa?` Hemant Da`s `Naagin`, Chitalkar`s `AnaarKaali`, Shankar JaiKishan`s `Awaara`, SD Burman`s `Shabnam` were competing hard for the cutomer`s money. I guess cometition is good for making widgets or composing music, when people vote with their hard earned money.

#16 Zeemax Bhai: I knew Shamshad was Punjabi, but did not know that she died already and was the Nani Ma of Saira Bano. Thanks EchoBoom Sahib.

Shamshad`s couple of Punjabi hits were `Kachi Kali si Naajuk Dil Mera` and `Meri Lagdi kise na Vekhi, te Tutdi nu Jaag Jaanda`. DR. LokRaj or DullaBhatti would know of others. She was great with OP Nayyar(CID?) and SD Burman (Shabnam) and was the lead singer in Babul and Mela for Naushad.

Shamshad was good looking but Saira was a real stunner in her youth. Saw her recently on TV when Sunil Dutt died. Poor thing had a puffy face, had bad Paan stained teeth ground to stubs with Supari eating. Time has not been kind to her beauty, but then it never is.

HP #22 {``Sorry to join the party this late but I would rather be a party pooper here than an admirer. ...Was Naushad really this good? ...Imo, most of the Indian musicians are at best mediocre``}

HP,
You are getting very good at being a party pooper. Did the fact that Naushad was from Lucknow, UP have anything to do with your obviously stupid remarks? You are entitled to your opinions, but for many of us Indian Bollywood music and Naushad`s unforgettable numbers will be cherished forever. Tujhiki akal kithey aahey.

Another tid-bit:

When I was a kid, a very popular and a must song played by early `DJs` at weddings was ``Chhod babul ka ghar`` from the film, Babul. However, they never played my favourite song which was on the other side of the 78 RPM tava. The reason was the wording of the song on the other side - Talat Mahmood`s `Mera jeevan saathi bichhad gaya vo khatam kahani ho gayee`. I guess it was not considered appropriate for the occasion. :)

Banjara saheb:

It is fitting that chowk`s best representative of the Ganga-Jamni tehzeeb should write the tribute to one of its most enduring presence in the Indian cinema and music. Some tid-bits:

Naushad once said that providing music during early periods was quite difficult - ``jaan-jokhum-ka-kaam`. While recording music outdoors, the tabla and harmonium players had sometimes to climb and hide on a tree so as to be outside the roving camera`s range.

Majrooh Sultanpuri wrote some immortal songs for Naushad in Shahjehan (Gham diye mustaqil, jab dil hee toot gaya - both by Sehgal) and Andaaz (Toote na dil toote na, tu kahe agar jeevan bhar main geet sunaata jaaooN - both by Mukesh). However, the Momin (Naushad) and the Kaafir (Majrooh) could not get along for long and Naushad found a more lasting relationship with the fellow-momin Shakeel.

In Andaaz, Naushad used Mukesh for Dilip`s voice and Rafi for Raj Kapur`s. However, soon Rafi became known as Dilip`s voice (except Suhana Safar in Madhumati) and Mukesh as Raj Kapur`s.

Baiju Bawara is justifiably known for the use of classical Indian music and musicians. It is said, however, that he was criticised for his music in this film by his mentor, Khem Chand Prakash, for using western instrumens in a film about an Indian classical musician of Akbar`s time.

If I have to disagree with you, it is about suggesting that Naushad was the first music director to use classical music in Indian films or the first one to introduce bhajans. As a matter of fact, most of the early music directors, whether Calcutta`s New Theatre, Bombay Talkies or Puna`s Prabhat, all had music directors grounded in classical music and used classical singers like S.K. Dey. One of my all-time favourites from those times is ``Veena madhur madhur kucch bol`` from film, Ram Rajya (perhaps also by Bhatt). But he did introduce qawwaali with that unforgettabe ``Aanhen na bhareeN shikwe na kiye`` in the voices of Nur Jehan and Zorabai Ambalvi in the film, Zeenat.

I think that by the time Mughal-e-Azam was released, Naushad had exhausted his originality and from then on he more or less plagiarised himself.

Thanks again for writing this heartfelt tribute to a man whose songs will be sung for decades, if not centuries, to come.

banjaara

in the last paragraph you mentioned the name of ``Master Ghulam Muhammad`` whose film pakeeza was completed by Naushaad Sb as music director. as per my information it was not Master Ghulam Mohammad it was ``Master Ghulam Haider``. and there is no name like Master Ghulam Mohammad in the list of music directors of indian film history before 1952.

Master Ghulam Haider is the music director of that caliber about whom Naushad sb once said in one of his interview ``gana tu master ghulam haider banatay thay hum tu sirf thoka thaki kartay hain``.

however your article about naushad sb is great. and i feel that you must be feeling the defeciecy of words while exaplaining the zenith of his creation.


haider

Re: # 23
Haider5

Master Ghulam Haider died in 1953. He did not compose for Pakeezah, Ghulam Mohammed did as Pakeezah was made well after 1953. Ghulam Mohammad is well known in Indian film music. He has composed for other films too. Talat`s ``Zindage dene wale sun`` in Dil-e-nadaan might ring a bell.

Banjara
Neverthless it was Master Ghulam Haider who gave Lata her first break even after S.Mukerji did not want to use her. She actually talks about this in one of her recordings. Apparently they were waiting at Borivli Station to catch the train when Ghulam Haider asked her to rehearse the song ``Dil mera Toda``. He was actually keeping the taal on his cigarette case .
I was pleasantly surprised to find out that Abida Parveen is Ghulam Haider`s daughter.

Sorry to join the party this late but I would rather be a party pooper here than an admirer.

Was Naushad really this good? Over the years he probably had 500 numbers and out of that abt 100 reached the pinnacle. That gives him a success ratio of abt one out of every 5. Is it really a great ratio when we consider the amount of time he spent as an active music director?

His success was also dependent on good poetry and good singing. It may sound strange to his blind followers here that his numbers w/o some quality poet and quality singers never made it to the top. So he can at best share the credits with some other people for the best efforts.

Music directors in India just don’t compose the music for the lyrics but they also provide background music to the movies. Here I see no mention of any great effort by him in that area. In fact, background music in most Indian movies (especially before the 80s) is horrible and the reason is that the music directors knew how to compose for the songs but did not know how to compose for the story.

Imo, most of the Indian musicians are at best mediocre. A good number of them are plagiarist and “Inspired” by music from the west and now from everywhere including the Turkey, Arabic, and Spanish music. Our Jaipuri turned turkey can provide more stats on that.

Was Naushad at times “inspired” too? Is it possible that his hit numbers were actually inspired numbers too and whenever he tried to be original he bombed?

I know this is a harsh criticism and it will take me time and effort to actually prove what I say but looking at the tradition of plagiarism in the Indian music as well as in the whole Indian movie industry, I would be very skeptical in giving Naushad a clean bill of health.

Most of the Indian subcontinent artists excluding some singers and classical musicians are talent-less hacks. This is a sad fact. You look at the Indian movies and even the top Indian movies show a deep ``inspiration`` from many sources.
Now I cannot give specifics because I think it is waste of time for me to work on that project but the obvious don’t need any proof either.

Sometime ago Pakistani musicians and the movie directors were stealing from the Indian movies that were actually stolen from some other sources but now Indian movies are stealing ideas from the dead Pakistani movies. If that was not enough, many songs have been lifted in entirety without a word of acknowledgement.

Growing up in Pakistan, I never really watched any Indian movie in theatres and there was never enough time to watch Indian movies on the vcr too. But after coming to the US, I decided to invest some time in watching old Indians movies and boy what a horrible experience that was. Forget abt the top billed movies that were horrible, even the songs that I loved were shot in such bad situations that I wondered abt the sanity of the movie directors, musicians, and the story and the screen play writers. It appeared that amateurs ruled the Indian movie Industry then and perhaps now too. I still enjoy some old songs but cannot bear to watch them in movies and videos. That goes for the new songs that are really good but shot in horribly conceived situations in the movies.(it is different for some remixes...they are good especially Kanta lagga.)

Overall, I would say Indian and Pakistani cultural scene is mediocre and now the poor imitation of the West makes it just ridiculous. (It actually sucks!).

Thank you for your comments. Naushad Saheb left a deep impact on ordinary film goers and the impromptu pouring of grief by all and sundry speaks of the greatness of the Titan of Music.

Mr. SWarrier # 1 and #2.
Lata Mangeshkar’s first Playback was in a Marathi film in 1942 - Pahili Mangalagaur (naatli chaitrachi navalai...), she even acted in a few marathi films.

Master Ghulam Haider gave Lata Mangeshkar her first big break in playback singing in Hindi film (Majboor, in 1948, in duets with Geeta Dutt and Mukesh).(There is also a nice Lata solo, ``Dil mera toRa``) However, Master Ghulam Haider migrated to Pakistan immediately after completion of this film and it was Naushad who offered her the break in Andaz:

Uthaaye ja un ke sitam aur jiye ja
yuN hi muskraay ja aanNsoo piye ja

Mahal by Khemchand Prakash was also released about the same time and is perhaps one of the greatest musicals of all times. However, both Ghulam Haider and Khemchand Prakash could not persist with Lata for obvious reasons and it was Naushad who took her under his wings. Her hits under the baton of Naushad are a part of Hindi film history.

Bnjaara Sahib,
Thank you for this excellent article praising a very talented and accomplished man. His work crosses all boundaries of age, race, language, nationality, and religion. I think that of all things our music really unites us in the most beautiful manner. May God bless him and give him heaven for the pleasure and peace he brought us all.

rahul:18

mehl udaas, aur galiaaN sooni
chuup chuup haiN deevaaraiN
dil kyaa ujRRa dunyaa ujrRree
roothh gaeeN haiN bahaaraiN
hUm jeevan kaisay guzaaraiN!

mandir bUntaa phir bUn jaata
dil ko kaun sanmbhhalay

O dunyaa..


You forgot Shakeel!

P.S:they make even Rodger & Hammerstein look like lilliputans.

Zeemax:16

This was 1998.

sorry.

``tujhh sey bhhee dilfareb haiN ghUm roazgaar kay``?

pakistan has produced a very very good obituary-tribute to her in: A tribute to series. Please get it.
..........................................
Shamshad Begum dead

MUMBAI, Aug 14 (PTI) — Grandmother of actress Saira Bano and noted singer of yesteryear, Shamshad Begum, who enthralled listeners of All India Radio for two decades with her melodious voice, is dead.

The virtuoso singer, who was over a hundred years old, passed away at her Pali Hill residence last Monday, family sources said today.

The “queen of music,” as she was known in her prime years, was a disciple of the great sarangi exponent Ustad Hussain Bux.

Shamshad, a dreamer as a child, always reciting and humming her own little innovation of songs in praise of God, lived her life fully and eventfully, seeing her daughter Naseem flourish as an actress.

Her grand-daughter, Saira, scaled great heights of fame in Hindi cinema as its most beautiful and highest paid star of her times

The last remaining icon of the `golden era` is Shamshad Begum. Now reclusive, may she grace us with her just being there.

A stunningly beautiful woman in her youth, that vivacious, nasal, naughty voice in the early male-singer dominated era was quite revolutionary.

Dekho ji merey bina, gaana na geet koi --
gaana na geet koi;

Toot na jayeiN dil key taar -- O` sajna, O` sajna.
Laagi merey, dil par kataar, O` sajna, O` sajna.

Once her songs were playing in the car with my teenage son`s Bhangra/Heavy Metal/Rap listening friends loaded in the back, and they thought she was `just out of this world`. I gave them all copies of the disc.

That is being `great`.

The last remaining icon of the `golden era` is Shamshad Begum. Now reclusive, may she grace us with her just being there.

A stunningly beautiful woman in her youth, that vivacious, nasal, naughty voice in the early male-singer dominated era was quite revolutionary.

gaana na geet koi;

Toot na jayeiN dil key taar -- O` sajna, O` sajna.
Laagi merey, dil par kataar, O` sajna, O` sajna.

Once her songs were playing in the car with my teenage son`s Bhangra/Heavy Metal/Rap listening friends loaded in the back, and they thought she was `just out of this world`. I gave them all copies of the disc.

That is being `great`.

The following is a letter that was sent to me by a friend (Dr. Iftikhar Mufti) who loves music and is a great fan of Naushad Ali, the great. I want to share it with chowk readers.

Life is an ongoing struggle. For famous people who rise to the pinnacle of their art, it is not a cake walk either. They have innate talent, they explore it, they work hard; sometime they reach their goal, sometime they fumble into oblivion. Naushad Ali was one of those rare gifted individuals whose strong determination paid off. Another great man whose name rings bell in my mind was Mehboob. Mehboob produced great films like Aan and Amar. Started out very poor and rose to the status of the industry giants. Have you ever noticed that all great musicians, mostly with Surnames of Ustaad were all Muslims and yet Islam does not compliment music.

Naushad also introduced Mohinder Kapoor in Sohni Mahiwaal with Mohinder’s first hit “Chaand Chhupa aur Tarey Doobey, Raat Ghazab Ki Aaie”. Sohni Mahinwaal was one the most memorable musical hits.
Naushad directed all great singers, Saigol, Rafi, Talat, Mukesh, Mannadey, and Hement Kumar (in Shabaab) who himself made music for the famous musical like “Nagin”. Naushaad’s death is no doubt an unreplenishable loss for the world of music. Inna lillah e wa inna ilaihe rajeoon.

Iftikhar

Mohammad Gill

Sad to hear he`s died. Inna lillaha wa inna `ilayhi raaji`oon.

Naushad was one of the most gifted music directors of all times.his music will be alive even after 100 years.he gave music to akbar khan recent directorial ventures as well.

Aaj puraani raahon se koyi mujhay aawaaz na de

Famous Rafi song from Aadmi.....immortalized by Nausad (like many other songs which he turned into gems)

Lekin , Naushad sahab, woh raaheiN takk bhi aap ko nahin bhool saktiiN, jin par aap chalay, aur na jaane kitnon ne aap ke naqsh-e-qadam par chalne ki koshish ki!

Aap zinda raheinge, jab takk tarannum zinda raheiga.

It was indeed a very sorrowful day for all music fans. I talked to a very young lady recently, who spoke wistfully of Naushad`s music, Mukesh and Dilip Kumar in Andaz. Those were the golden years of Indian movies. These days the Bollywood movies are just like the Arab movies.

Arab movies? Yes, the young fan is a Lebense, who made an effort to learn Urdu just because of Naushad.

Sehgal sang many great and memorable songs for many composers. The one he specified to be played on his visit to the Shamshan Ghat was `Jab Dil hi toot gaya`, composed by Naushad.

Sehgal, an alcoholic, sang that song without being drunk, at the special request of Naushad.
He was broken hearted to learn that he could sing without whiskey.

Always a fan.
Cheerios

I just learned that his name in the credits superceded the one above the leading stars.
and they were real stars then! WOW!

naushad sahib:
salaam

aap kay geet toa zindaa hain humeisha kayliyay
aap mur saktay haiN? aisaa toa naheeN ho sakta.

khuda Hafiz.

man tarrpat

Re: # 8
Baiju Bawra was probably the pinnacle of brilliance for both Naushad and Rafi.

Suhaani raat dhal chuki ...

Indeed a curtain has drawn on a golden era.

Whenever there was a fusion of Naushad’s music, Shakeel Badayuni’s lyrics and Rafi’s voice, the result was immortal. The last of the trio has taken his bow.

We can thank Naushad Saheb for leaving us with such melodies.

May the dear departed soul rest in eternal peace.

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May Naushad Sahib Murhoom find Mokhsha!

re #1
Being stupid I`ve mixed up my dates and movies . ``Ghar Aaaya mera Pardes`` iwas in Awara (1951). Still it was before Aan which premiered in 1952 . I`ve kicked myself. One should not type at 5:30 am. Sorry.

A couple of observations.

Lata Mangeshkar was given her first major break by Ghulam Haider in 1948 in the films, Majboor and Shaheed. Kemchand Prakash`s Aaayega Aanewala in Mahal was also released around the same time as Andaaz and that was a far bigger hit than Uthaye Ja Unke Sitam.

The credit for the first big orchestral usage would have to be given to Shankar Jaikishan, in Aah. ``Ghar aaya mera Pardesi``, especially the musical sequences in the end.